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Thread: Most dominant infantry in Europe

  1. #61
    Member Member DionCaesar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    As a Caesar fan, I think it's a pity that no one has mentioned cohors reformata. Ofcourse, their stats aren't that great, but their availability in all of the Roman world (after quite some barracks upgrades, unfortunately) has to count for something, right?

    This could probably be a new thread, but the Marians should perhaps get an experience bonus, if there is a way for the modders to increase the speed at which they gain experience. Because they are a standing army, they could have 15 or more years of tight fighting experience, which is, as we have seen in history, lethal for a lot of factions.
    This would simulate the true strength of the Roman army, without making it possible to spam over powered units (fresh units don't have the experience). I think I have to dream on, though.

    Back at topic, Roarii are a very good unit to fight with, because of their large cohorts and their 3 throwing spears. They're one of my favorite Roman support units.
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  2. #62
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by william weedzor View Post
    Is the opponent atleast allowed to watch or he must be really AFK during this?:D

    Anyway MP tactics like this should start with "And then he suddenly went afk" or "Fortunately,my dog Jerry was distracted by our cat Tittie so he cant react in time against my light cavalry".

    Nothing against,but human players dare to have their own plans while your tactic just simply ignore the very existence of active human mind on the other side.
    While I certainly don't deny the existence of an active human mind as an opponent, if you are using lots of Drapanai, you certainly are going on the offensive and trying to make him react to your maneuvers by the merits of your aggressiveness. I've found in my MP battles(though admittedly almost all are in vanilla where units are more easily broken), that I often perform better in battles where I am the aggressor as I can disrupt my opponents gameplan by making the first aggressive moves.

    Of course I don't profess to be very good at EB multi, I've played very little of it and only against a few friends. That said, I was just defending the Drap charge MP tactic as workable while also trying to make a case for them as most dominant european infantry.
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Basically my original intent is to look at the single player game on the macro level of empire building, taking into account the strengths of each European faction, like the huge chevron bonuses of the Sweboz, the economic strength of the Romans, Makedonians, etc, and trying to reduce the question of "most dominant infantry" to a small set of the true, most optimal and overpowering factional units. Yes anything works against the AI, but some things work better, with greater cost-efficiency, and with superior kill-casualty ratios. This is indisputable, go fight huge armies of Roman infantry, or later Gallic spam with Gaesatae, or Yellow Death elite phalanx invasions, or fight the full stacks in inner Germany with a Sweboz king- Sweboz kings can be extremely hard to kill sometimes and the armies will not route until he is killed. Furthermore, I play on VH campaign, Hard battle and in those conditions the javelin volleys of enemy infantry can be very lethal. So some things work better than others, and some battles are very hard to win, and the AI will beat you with some armies if your forces are not strong. So this is where the worth of the superior infantry is proven. You don't conquer the Uber-stacks at Eburon with low quality levies, and you don't expand, or fight multi-front wars with inefficient troop combinations.

    So I personally believe the 4 chevron Sweboz Jugundiz to be tops, due to cost, versatility and near unbreakability. Some are touting the drapanai due to their crushing power in melee, and one might add the Getai's very high chevron bonuses (+3/+4 at Sarmizegethusa with the right infrastructure). Then others saying Belgae Batacorii and Roman Rorarii, for somewhat similar reasons. I am surprised though, that few are representing the later Roman side of things like brave Sir Robin. If I could bring myself to play the Romans, (they just seem OP so I don't bother), it always seemed to me that Polybian infantry were real strong, and Post-marians perhaps better yet.

    Anyhow just wanted to clarify, the question I am posing is basically one for the single player min-max hardcore viewpoint. Not just what works, since yes a good player can beat the AI on normal battle difficulty with most troop types by exploiting the AI tendency to overmaneuver and become exhausted. My question is what mass-leviable infantry unit is the single most overpowering, and bestows the best qualitative advantage to its respective faction, for development of the total military strength of an empire.
    Last edited by Geticus; 04-15-2011 at 02:49.

  4. #64
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Eh, I'm actually espousing the benefits of Drapanai, but that doesn't matter.

    I havn't played Sweboz in a while but my recent playthrough as the Getai has me quite high on the Draps. Not only do they complement the mostly skirmishing early forces of a Getai warband well by ripping through tired and weakened foes, but they are also easily recruitable from Skythia to Sarmizegthusa, to Odyrisai making them very useful. Jugudiz, imo, are very useful and versatile, but they aren't going to be able to beat heavy infantry head on even levied at 4 chevrons. Its also worth noting, that like Drapanai, their weakness is in missile vulnerability, though that is mitigated a bit by a shield. Draps can take on heavy or light infantry, especially if you have been skirmishing a bit first with your Komatai and used up a good portion of the enemies javelins. Especially given their position facing down the Hellenistic armies to the south, the best unit to have to cut through those phalanxes are Drapanai. Comparing costs, Draps are 218 a turn to upkeep and Jugundiz are 188 with both having 100 men on large unit size. Also worth noting that you won't be able to afford building up temples too early as Sweboz since economy is so poor so those major chevron bonuses are more mid-game than early.
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Eh, I'm actually espousing the benefits of Drapanai, but that doesn't matter.

    I havn't played Sweboz in a while but my recent playthrough as the Getai has me quite high on the Draps. Not only do they complement the mostly skirmishing early forces of a Getai warband well by ripping through tired and weakened foes, but they are also easily recruitable from Skythia to Sarmizegthusa, to Odyrisai making them very useful. Jugudiz, imo, are very useful and versatile, but they aren't going to be able to beat heavy infantry head on even levied at 4 chevrons. Its also worth noting, that like Drapanai, their weakness is in missile vulnerability, though that is mitigated a bit by a shield. Draps can take on heavy or light infantry, especially if you have been skirmishing a bit first with your Komatai and used up a good portion of the enemies javelins. Especially given their position facing down the Hellenistic armies to the south, the best unit to have to cut through those phalanxes are Drapanai. Comparing costs, Draps are 218 a turn to upkeep and Jugundiz are 188 with both having 100 men on large unit size. Also worth noting that you won't be able to afford building up temples too early as Sweboz since economy is so poor so those major chevron bonuses are more mid-game than early.
    Drapanai have 80 men on large unit and 160 on huge, while jugundz are 100/200 so jugunds are both cheaper and more numerous, something which helps a great deal fighting the Sauromatae, where the large numbers, low cost, and shields of the Jugundz make them decent meatshields in loose array in front of the army (yes I have conquered the Sauros on VH/H with Sweboz and Jugundiz are definitely a viable front line unit as are Dacian Komatai).

    Well sweboz can recruit Jugundiz at one chevron mid 260's, 2 chevron late 260s and 3 chev from the capitol in the early 250's at some point, along with the weaponsmith upgrade. The 4 chevrons take longer true, sometime around 250 for the first 4 chevron units. Once I can spam 3 chevron Jugundiz as Sweboz, say around 257/256 if I develop Swebotraust steadily, then I think the Sweboz are extremely difficult if not impossible to conquer. My reasoning is that the Jugundiz are so cheap that you can have multiple armies, meaning plentiful reinforcements for your main army, and high chevron Jugundiz dominate on the flanks. No European light or heavy cavalry can beat them aside from Getai horse archers. Which means that enemy armies will tend to get surrounded. A Sweboz all infantry high chevron army, with no cavalry at all, is cheap, extremely numerous--generically 3,000 to 4,000 men on huge unit size) with perhaps the highest morale of any standard army composition in the game due to all the chevrons. And although I do use other Sweboz units for all out melee, like Sweboz swordsmen and Dugundz spearmen, I view the Jugundz as the backbone of the army since they start the battle via skirmishing, take the first casualties, and can do decisive maneuvers at the end after they retreat through the main line and regroup as a reserve. 18 spear attack with fast moving makes for serious damage on a flank surround.

    That said, I do get the advantages of drapanai. I have played Getai a lot, and the drapanai are in a way a dominant reserve almost like no other. They are so cost effective against elite phalanxes it is not funny. They own KH bodyguards, elite no-javelin heavy infantry, and are IMO better against high chevron elite heavy cavarly than rhompaiaphoroi since they are not vulnerable to AP. But the thing is, whereas the AI is very poor at skirmishing with most non-HA units, I am very good at it. And IMO with most factions, combined arms skirmishing should be a core capability of any good army. That is where the immaculate victories are, 50 to 1 or 100 to 1 kill ratios on hard battle difficulty start with missile power superiority and skirmishing. For that reason I see the drapanai as a great reserve, perhaps the most cost effective reserve vs armored units, but not a primary unit. I always view the Komatai skirmishers as the workhorse of early Getai armies, and the Thraikian peltast as the most cost effective core unit of later Getai armies. If they don't do their job well and exhaust the enemies' missile supply, the draps are dartfodder. To me drapanai dominance is basically an exploit of the AI's poor micro, and army composition habits. Against a better opponent, or a better AI, who properly appreciates the strengths and weaknesses of drapanai, and integrates missile units more efficiently into the army, all they need to do is keep some missile power in reserve, to keep the draps in check. In comparison the Jugundz are IMO much harder to shut down so I view them as more dominant.
    Last edited by Geticus; 04-15-2011 at 19:00.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    herm if the problem is money both keltic factions are normally willing to pay 10-15k mnai for a peace agreament wich means if the sweaboz play their diplomatic cards well they won´t have many money problems

    i can´t remember if one should ask the aedui or arverni 1st but the payment they give depends on alot of litle things there are instances where you can even get a regular payment of a few thousand mnai (1.5k to 4.5k) for 100 turns (altough it can be considered an exploit i normally do it to keep peace during those turns since they never attack while they are paying the tribute)

  7. #67

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    IMHO Pikemen of any kind, don't have a match in EB, efficiency speaking - unless you react with some really SMART moves, you easily get into trouble.
    That's why the AI spams Pikemen, he knows better :-P

  8. #68

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    yeah i'd say deutoroi are pretty good cost efficiency. i dont' care if you have 3 million Jugundz, they will never take a town defended by some deutoroi

  9. #69

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    you would need a alot of deuteroi to stop a blitz attack by jugundz because basically you can beat them by cumulative power with all the javelins flying around and into the deuteroi backs

    a full stack of jugunds lead by the ai would beat a 1/4 stack of deuteroi in city batle

  10. #70
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Um, just blockade the streets?
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  11. #71
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Where's this Sweboz economy which is supporting a full stack of Jugundiz either? The inherent weakness in Sweboz armies are not that their troops do not perform well, its just that you can't afford very many of them with your dirt poor provinces.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    Um, just blockade the streets?
    exactly. xerxes had the advantage of numbers and missiles yet funnel them and remove that advantage. though i assume a real city battle would be different, we are talking about game mechanics and in that deuteroi, maybe even pendapoi phalanx, will destroy these jugundz. sure, just the cumulative effect of thousands of javelins will kill many, but there is no way to hit the deuteroi from the back.

    it sucks being so used to deuteroi and then switching to an eastern faction with their phalangites. they are uglier, less effective, and just the idea of dragging around these poor people to the ends of the earth isn't very fun. at least deuteroi have something to lose or gain when they fight.. sort of.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    How many javelins will be thrown? Javelins throwed directly do mediocre damage.So let's assume a 20% kill ratio at THE VERY BEST? ----->190 phalangitai /unit remains.
    Remember frontal assault will take the best of heavy infantry to push a pikemen phalanx back a bit.And of course the phalanx can be deployed in greater depth where it become unmovable.
    This of course can be tested in a custom battle but I can safely assume that even in open battlefield these Jugundai don't stand a chance even against levy pikemen.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    right, and just imagine brazen or silver shields :P

  15. #75
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by fomalhaut View Post
    exactly. xerxes had the advantage of numbers and missiles yet funnel them and remove that advantage. though i assume a real city battle would be different, we are talking about game mechanics and in that deuteroi, maybe even pendapoi phalanx, will destroy these jugundz. sure, just the cumulative effect of thousands of javelins will kill many, but there is no way to hit the deuteroi from the back.

    it sucks being so used to deuteroi and then switching to an eastern faction with their phalangites. they are uglier, less effective, and just the idea of dragging around these poor people to the ends of the earth isn't very fun. at least deuteroi have something to lose or gain when they fight.. sort of.
    The Eastern version of the levy phalanx is one of the best units in the game. They are sized 240 axemen first and pikemen second. You can literally zerg stuff to death with them online or run around and put the spears down only when you need them. Just have some of the guys stay in phalanx and pin and then just wheel around the flank with your massive numbers and cavalry wings to crush the enemy wings and then zerg the main heavy infantry body ^_^
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  16. #76

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    you can just push through it even if you loose 1 or 2 full units once the phallanx as been breached it´s easy to win i mean the kelts rolled under the phallanx we can just assume this exploit serves the same principles as i said 20 will beat 5 once you destroy one of the phallanxs you can use proper tactical movements to always catch them in the back unleass you put 2 deuteroi units back to back in a long street but then you´ll have no one protecting the plaza and you can take the city

    in an open field ? well zweabos are meant to fight in forest not in open fields but even then with proper tactical management (micro management) you can always out run the phallanx and there´s always some backs free to shoot javelins at even with noob boxes it can be done (even tough it´s probably far harder)

    blitzkrieg concentrate all your firepower into the weakest link of the enemy and then move as fast as you can to take advantage of their slowness to regroup and reorganise

    ofc a incopetent general can do fairly well with phallanxs while it takes a proper leader to use the sweaboz effectivly but even epaminondas outnumbered beaten the spartans using the blitzkrieg principle so it´s highly feasible all it takes is tactical prowess

  17. #77
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    I did those mass pushes online to force phalanxes to be squares and people got mad at me.
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    hahaha, i don't know the nuances of online play i never would think of something so cheap as using the levy phalanx as zerg rush :P


    there are at most 3 entrances to any plaza, a deuteroi in each street, no gaps between them and walls, nothing will get past. sometimes the ai does stupid things like not get in formation or break from it for no reason, but that's an external issue. One way i take cities is to keep the enemy away with massed archer fire, open gate, then place a phalanx through their main street that they will use to get to the gate. When the phalanx doesn't do the retard dance (one guy spinning in circles so NOBODY puts pike downs) its forces everyone in one road. its the end of that entire garrison unless they have elephants.

    I was once sieging Seleukaia, and an army consisting of nothing but 8 FM's and Jews rushed to its aid. All i had to do was place one Levy Phalanx at the entrance of the bridge and nothing survived. Archers shooting on the sides, deado. and these are Hetairoi we are talking about here :P



    In real life maybe this wouldn't work super well because a city is more complicated than 3 streets and a plaza, but IRL the entire population would also be stabbing all die jugundz, so :P
    Last edited by fomalhaut; 04-18-2011 at 03:56.

  19. #79
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    IRL your war elephant gets stuck in a gate and in the chaos that ensues, you get roof tiled in the head and decapitated by some peasants.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  20. #80

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    truly a tragic ending for such a fascinating character. his bust serves as my avatar in many forums

  21. #81

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    moonburn - While you have to do some SERIOUS micro, your opponent would simply line up and watch you doing a parade :-P

    Even in forests Pikemen perform well and if they maintain high morale then you are in BIG trouble.They just don't break.You say you can breach the phalanx line? Man you are going to loose a LOT in order to do that - depending on the depth of the phalanx you may even cause your unit to route!

    The vulnerability of phalanx is when you hit it from the flanks, usually they turn towards you, but simultaneously shoot javelins, arrows, stones on their BACK.This is the only scenario where they count significant casualties and drop morale FAST.With jugundai I doubt you can stand a direct fight long enough to neutralize the phalanx.
    And if talking for PvP remember there is no pause to do your funky micro-management. ;-)

    PS - nice to see there are some Starcraft vets in the forums ;-)

  22. #82

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    and that's just deuteroi, professional pikemen or elite pikemen just don't break! i had multiple late parni charges straight to the back of silver shields many times, but they stood strong. i had to send some indian elephants to finally rout them.

    you often have to kill them down to the very last man

  23. #83
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by fomalhaut View Post
    When the phalanx doesn't do the retard dance (one guy spinning in circles so NOBODY puts pike downs)
    They also like to face the wrong direction when deployed in a street. Like, pointing their pikes towards the house on the right instead of the Hetairoi unit in front of you. Despite your explicit order to form up properly (including holding down the mouse button and drawing the formation on the ground)...




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  24. #84

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    i guess it isn´t just me who sometimes have those problems with pikeman i normally just deploy them in the end of the street (entrance or exit) i put 2-3 rows outside the street bounderies on each side that way they can deploy fast and if they dance too much i just hit the halt button (you know the one saying stop showing an hand) and if they don´t position after i hit that button i redeploy them again

    also remember to only activate the phallanx once they are in position or else they´re so freaking slow it´s nauseating (assuming you always remember to disable the phallanx before entering the city since speed and tactical prowess are many times the same thing)
    Last edited by moonburn; 04-18-2011 at 15:49. Reason: correcting a few grammar errors

  25. #85

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    They also like to face the wrong direction when deployed in a street. Like, pointing their pikes towards the house on the right instead of the Hetairoi unit in front of you. Despite your explicit order to form up properly (including holding down the mouse button and drawing the formation on the ground)...

    the agony seriously kills me. its like, look guys, i get it, this is a complex formation and you had to train a lot to learn it... but where does it seem like a good idea to not point your spear at the bad guy ever?

    does anyone else auto resolve city battles and sieges though? i find them to be far too formulaic, boring and the pathfinding far too stupid. like when you tell a unit to get on the wall, they all line up outside the wall ALL THE WHILE GETTING SHOT BY THE WALL but never enter until the very last guy is in position. or your horses will go the most odd routes and split up to many different groups hugging the walls when you tell them to go somewhere.

    the only reason i ever siege now is so that an enemy army can relieve the siege and we can have a real battle somewhere. from what i understand it was ->decisive battle in region ->towns and cities mostly give up if the invader wins. at least that's how it was for Alex

  26. #86

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Where's this Sweboz economy which is supporting a full stack of Jugundiz either? The inherent weakness in Sweboz armies are not that their troops do not perform well, its just that you can't afford very many of them with your dirt poor provinces.
    The Sweboz have a pretty good economy, if you know what the strong points are. The key is coastal trade in the Baltic, above all the triangle of Swebotraust-Scandza-Rugii. Disband all cavalry and blitz Rugii-Cimbroz-Scandza, and drop T3 governments for the quick tax bonus, and put good governors on Swebotraust and Scandza. You'd be surprised what kind of money the Sweboz generate played right. Once Swebotraust reaches 4% or 4.5% population growth with a L3 temple of Tyr, the uber-Jugundiz spam never ends and the rest of Europe will quake.
    Last edited by Geticus; 04-19-2011 at 06:54.

  27. #87
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Geticus View Post
    The Sweboz have a pretty good economy, if you know what the strong points are. The key is coastal trade in the Baltic, above all the triangle of Swebotraust-Scandza-Rugii. Disband all cavalry and blitz Rugii-Cimbroz-Scandza, and drop T3 governments for the quick tax bonus, and put good governors on Swebotraust and Scandza. You'd be surprised what kind of money the Sweboz generate played right. Once Swebotraust reaches 4% or 4.5% population growth with a L3 temple of Tyr, the uber-Jugundiz spam never ends and the rest of Europe will quake.
    There is certainly trade to be had in the Baltic. But when those annoying rebel pirates start showing up about 10-15 years in and blockading half of your ports, that is another story. This is what happened to me in my long ago Sweboz campaign and unlike the Celts who can build the large ships in Amorica, I was doomed to just deal with it.
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  28. #88
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin View Post
    There is certainly trade to be had in the Baltic. But when those annoying rebel pirates start showing up about 10-15 years in and blockading half of your ports, that is another story. This is what happened to me in my long ago Sweboz campaign and unlike the Celts who can build the large ships in Amorica, I was doomed to just deal with it.
    You don't have to deal with it. It is possible to defeat the pirate swarms without using too many ships. One fleet of six or so warship units should be enough. Make sure to target the weakest pirate fleets first, to gather experience and command stars. For more details, see here:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Originally Posted by athanaric:
    3.2.1 A way to reach Gotland without getting squashed by pirates:


    Usually the Baltic Sea is infested by ridiculous numbers of pirates, which will sink your transport fleets. Here's what you do:
    1) Conquer Gawjam-Skandzawarjoz (build level 1 government of course).
    2) Build up its trade port to level 2 [this gives you a money boost you need to afford ships].
    3) Build a military port. This will enable you to build the transport boats.
    4) Move your army on land as close as possible towards Gotland. It should be near modern day Västervik.
    5) Build a unit of transport boats, and move them between Gotland and your army. Their (the fleet's) movement points expire there. Make sure your army has enough movement points left!!! Otherwise they will be stuck on the fleet and sunk by the inevitable pirates.
    6) Move the army onto the boats. They should be able to get out of them onto Gotland in the same turn (otherwise you're screwed).
    7) Take the settlement, build level 1 government.
    8) Proceed the same way as in Gawjam-Skandzawarjoz. Now you will be able to build a level 2 military port on Gotland.
    9) Build six units of "warships" on Gotland. KILL ALL PIRATES with them. Retraining will be necessary a lot.
    10) Warships are expensive, so disband or merge the least experienced ones when there are no pirates nearby.
    Last edited by athanaric; 04-19-2011 at 13:59.




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  29. #89

    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    i just ignored the pirates they never blockade for long and never more then 2/3 harbours while you got like 4-5 trading so the cost of building ships doesn´t pay up unleass you take the entire baltic coast and even then your money is better spent taking over most of modern day germany building forts in the alps passage taking over modern day lithuania poland western russia and all places that are in forest and then moving to belgium and into armourica where you can get the galleons if the kelts get in your way you might aswell just build a new holy roman empire economically it isn´t worth it the navy you can take gotland just the same for the priçe of 1 or 2 transport cheap ships

    ofc taking over lithuania and western russia without navy is a bit harder i advice turning off fog of war when you sent an army there it makes the pathfinder easyer instead of you loosing 10 turns trying to locate a setlement and trying to reach there by the midle of swamps

  30. #90
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Most dominant infantry in Europe

    I got unlucky and the pirates decided to keep blockading my ports for about 10-15 turns at a time. Fleets are really expensive though and 5-6 warships as Sweboz would cost too much. If you're going to build that many ships you might as well build an army to conquer the Alps or Gaul.
    From Frontline for fixing siege towers of death
    x30 From mikepettytw for showing how to edit in game text.
    From Brennus for wit.

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