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Thread: Crusader Kings [Concluded]
Edit: Nevermind The Last Days already gave better answer then i could have.
Originally Posted by TheLastDays:
Apparently you believe that by paying for His Holiness and offering him land you, the Duchy of Ulster, have aquired the possibility to decide for him, if he has something to decide. How pieous of you...
I'm not the Duchy of Ulster, but since his Holiness and the Duke of Ulster's opinion on the matter seemed to overlap, it would only be natural to make an offer to the good duke, who could then bring it to *his holinessApparently you believe that by paying for His Holiness and offering him land you, the Duchy of Ulster, have aquired the possibility to decide for him, if he has something to decide. How pieous of you...
In either case, my Duke has tried to include his holiness, whilst your duke has only tried to exclude him, I fail to see how we are the bad guys here.
EDIT: It might be in the interest of all, if his holiness was to receive Mide, and Ulster gain full control of the province which his holiness build his cathedral on, as I highly doubt anyone else getting Mide, would satisfy the rest..
Again A Dane.Dont speculate on affairs you know little about. You dont have any idea what i have offered or proposed to the Bishop.
Originally Posted by Kagemusha:
Duke of Connaught stands up looking at the previous speaker,
"If Bishop is part of Ulster.He is no Bishop at all. Church is above Duke´s and even you proposing that Bishop is mere vassal of Ulster is insulting to both the Bishop, Holy Church and Ulster."
Duke of Connaught
The Duke of Connaught should remember his place- alongside the rest of us, in subservience to the Lord. It would be most irresponsible of a Duke to allow his subjects to be excommunicated because of his own impertinence. Now, sir, if you feel you have another proposal to add to mine or Duke Diamondeye's, let us hear it, here in the open. Duke of Connaught stands up looking at the previous speaker,
"If Bishop is part of Ulster.He is no Bishop at all. Church is above Duke´s and even you proposing that Bishop is mere vassal of Ulster is insulting to both the Bishop, Holy Church and Ulster."
Duke of Connaught
In the meantime, should an agreement between the Dukes and the Church not arise soon, I suggest that each Duke agree to a pact of protection for the Duchy of Mide. In the event that a duke should attempt to seize the county by force, the pact shall state that the rest of us shall come to its aid. I, naturally, shall sign this county first, but reserve the right of nullification should all the rest of the Dukes determine it unnecessary. Should even one other Duke agree, I shall be bound by oath to protect the Duchy of Mide from aggressors.
To Duke of Ulster,
It is not i who called the Bishop part of your domain.So dont threaten me. In matter of fact i asked for the guidance of the Bishop in this affair and also even proposed that Mide would be given to the Church, but the Bishop did not even answer my letters. My Chancellor has also tried to contact for example Leinster in private in vain. No decent reply of any kind have been give n by them. Same applies with Ulster.
In this light i cant but laugh at your latest proposal.You together with Leinster have made an agreement over the fate of Mide in private and now you want us and Munster to protect your agreement, while we have been left out even from negotiations. While one of you forces marriage to the poor daughter of Mide.I am sorry but do you take us a fool?
In this scheming atmosphere provided by Ulster and Leinster. I Duke of Connaught will offer my hand in marriage to daughter of Mide and promise to protect her lands from anyone trying to take them with force. I am man of peace, but such exploitation Ulster and Leinster are planning cant be tolerated. Thus i am going to protect my dead neighbours integrity by marrying his daughter. Let the Mide daughter decide whom to marry. Is that enough for you gentlemen?
It is not i who called the Bishop part of your domain.So dont threaten me. In matter of fact i asked for the guidance of the Bishop in this affair and also even proposed that Mide would be given to the Church, but the Bishop did not even answer my letters. My Chancellor has also tried to contact for example Leinster in private in vain. No decent reply of any kind have been give n by them. Same applies with Ulster.
In this light i cant but laugh at your latest proposal.You together with Leinster have made an agreement over the fate of Mide in private and now you want us and Munster to protect your agreement, while we have been left out even from negotiations. While one of you forces marriage to the poor daughter of Mide.I am sorry but do you take us a fool?
In this scheming atmosphere provided by Ulster and Leinster. I Duke of Connaught will offer my hand in marriage to daughter of Mide and promise to protect her lands from anyone trying to take them with force. I am man of peace, but such exploitation Ulster and Leinster are planning cant be tolerated. Thus i am going to protect my dead neighbours integrity by marrying his daughter. Let the Mide daughter decide whom to marry. Is that enough for you gentlemen?
Originally Posted by Kagemusha:
Again A Dane.Dont speculate on affairs you know little about. You dont have any idea what i have offered or proposed to the Bishop.
You offered neither gold nor land to the good bishop in the first place, atleast not in public, and nothing was announced at the fair, so it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you've offered nothing.Again A Dane.Dont speculate on affairs you know little about. You dont have any idea what i have offered or proposed to the Bishop.
In regards to your latest responses, now you've suddenly proposed to give the good bishop the land in private? Very noble in theory, but since you've not said so in public, it sounds highly suspecious...
The bishop is a wise and honorable man, he should be able to clear up any misgivings.
I think we should defer to his Holiness's judgement on this matter.
I think we should defer to his Holiness's judgement on this matter.
You presume quite a lot, Duke of Connaught. First, the Bishop is not of my domain. I collect no taxes from the land, and the soldiers I cannot conscript. Further, myself and Duke Diamondeye have made no secret agreements behind closed doors. All that has been discussed has been in the public forum for all. My proposal to protect Mide from aggressors was just that- in the event we and the Church could not agree to a timely conclusion to this matter. Thus, we could prevent an unnecessary violent resolution to the matter. But if you wish to see it through the lens of conspiracy, I suppose that is your right, even if misguided. However, I fail to see how your offer to the Duke's daughter is, frankly, in any way different than from Duke Diamondeye's. You both have offered your hand to the young lady, even though she lacks any right of inheritance. Does that not make you equally scheming?
Originally Posted by A_Dane:
You offered neither gold nor land to the good bishop in the first place, atleast not in public, and nothing was announced at the fair, so it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you've offered nothing.
In regards to your latest responses, now you've suddenly proposed to give the good bishop the land in private? Very noble in theory, but since you've not said so in public, it sounds highly suspecious...
Yes i did not give Bishop gold for the construction of Church, but you dont know anything i have done after that. Ask the Bishop if you dont believe me. If you go back and read what i have said, you should start to understand that i have tried to find a solution to this situation both in Public and private but the reluctant behaviour, which is the main thing i have accused of Leinster and Ulster has cancelled all my efforts. This is exactly what i have been saying all along.You offered neither gold nor land to the good bishop in the first place, atleast not in public, and nothing was announced at the fair, so it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you've offered nothing.
In regards to your latest responses, now you've suddenly proposed to give the good bishop the land in private? Very noble in theory, but since you've not said so in public, it sounds highly suspecious...
And to the Duke of Ulster.I already told you it was not i who said the Bishop is part of your domain, but the very Leinster Vassal to whom i have been trying to clarify the situation over and over again.
You say I insult the holy father, but claim you havn't.. oh well nvm, not the issue.
The Issue is, that the so-called "proposals" you've come with in public, would only strengthen yourself or Munster, while the ones you've discussed in private, would on paper be the most reasonable ones, however, you've never uttered a word about it, until after I proposed rearranging Mides lands, which I must say speak against you, considering you've done nothing, until very recently, but claim we were scheming.
EDIT: Anyways, in the interest of the peace, we should let this issue be. There's no way to settle this in a satisfactory way, without either Ulster getting it (hence getting back to 3 provinces), or his holiness swapping mide for the previously given county. Anything else would strengthen one dukedom over the others, which none will be able to agree to, and since I'm sure no one wants a war now, his holiness might be persuaded to swap counties, provided all the dukes can agree?
The Issue is, that the so-called "proposals" you've come with in public, would only strengthen yourself or Munster, while the ones you've discussed in private, would on paper be the most reasonable ones, however, you've never uttered a word about it, until after I proposed rearranging Mides lands, which I must say speak against you, considering you've done nothing, until very recently, but claim we were scheming.
EDIT: Anyways, in the interest of the peace, we should let this issue be. There's no way to settle this in a satisfactory way, without either Ulster getting it (hence getting back to 3 provinces), or his holiness swapping mide for the previously given county. Anything else would strengthen one dukedom over the others, which none will be able to agree to, and since I'm sure no one wants a war now, his holiness might be persuaded to swap counties, provided all the dukes can agree?
Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
Originally Posted by Kagemusha:
Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
So, if anyone touches Mide, it's war?Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
Originally Posted by Kagemusha:
Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
Your insolence knows no boundaries, and neither does your apparant arrogance, I'm sure you'll roast in hell, good sir.Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:
"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."
After a pause.Duke continues.
"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."
Count A_Dane you should learn to control your temper and your tongue before I cut it from your mouth for insulting my liege.
Your liege should seek counciling on proper conduct.
Originally Posted by A_Dane:
Your liege should seek counciling on proper conduct.
I can wholeheartedly second this, making empty threats is unchristian, wait till the pope heas about this!Your liege should seek counciling on proper conduct.
Duke of Connaught has hard time trying to control himself from not bursting into a laughter:
"So now i am to blame for our Leinster vassal first mistaking our Bishop from Ulster Vassal and after that mistaking our Bishop from the Pope, who is The Holy Father. I am sorry but i have to take a small break from these negotiations if you will gentlemen."
"So now i am to blame for our Leinster vassal first mistaking our Bishop from Ulster Vassal and after that mistaking our Bishop from the Pope, who is The Holy Father. I am sorry but i have to take a small break from these negotiations if you will gentlemen."
EDIT: This sounded ruder than it should have, Sorry for that Kage.
Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).
Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.
Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).
Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq:
I can whoreheartedly second this, making empty threats is unchristian, wait till the pope heas about this!
So, Skullhead, you have the heart of a whore, do you? Most men would not have the gall to admit that and then call another man's words unchristian.I can whoreheartedly second this, making empty threats is unchristian, wait till the pope heas about this!
Originally Posted by A_Dane:
EDIT: This sounded ruder than it should have, Sorry for that Kage.
Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).
Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.
No problems. This is just a game and we are all playing characters.EDIT: This sounded ruder than it should have, Sorry for that Kage.
Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).
Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.
Yeah ofcourse, but I failed big time there.. Geeze.. thought i was past such things s:
EDIT: Anyways, offtopic chat aside, I stand by my earlier proposal of HIS HOLINESS, THE GOOD BISHOP, E.G. NOT THE POPE HIMSELF, getting Mide, but giving his earlier aquired province back to Ulster, so we can keep the fragile balance.
EDIT: Anyways, offtopic chat aside, I stand by my earlier proposal of HIS HOLINESS, THE GOOD BISHOP, E.G. NOT THE POPE HIMSELF, getting Mide, but giving his earlier aquired province back to Ulster, so we can keep the fragile balance.
Originally Posted by autolycus:
So, Skullhead, you have the heart of a whore, do you? Most men would not have the gall to admit that and then call another man's words unchristian.
This made me ROFL. Sorry for the typo ;)So, Skullhead, you have the heart of a whore, do you? Most men would not have the gall to admit that and then call another man's words unchristian.
Didn't even notice it :p although that was the most amusing typo (besides my own mingling of holiness and holy father ofcourse), I've seen in a while :)
To the Duke of Connaught:
You should substantiate your claim of private contacts. Until you do, you are barking. I have received no missives from your duchy. Now, again, by what right do you demand the lands of Mide? You have done nothing but attempt to mislead other lords and vassals while attempting to increase your domain. You have served as no proper example to your subjects, and thus, you do not deserve support for your claim.
You should substantiate your claim of private contacts. Until you do, you are barking. I have received no missives from your duchy. Now, again, by what right do you demand the lands of Mide? You have done nothing but attempt to mislead other lords and vassals while attempting to increase your domain. You have served as no proper example to your subjects, and thus, you do not deserve support for your claim.
No, this is the proper map:
It is outrageous to bring something like this before us. By what right does the Duchy of Leinster claim Mide? If there is no right for the Dukes of this island than it certainly can't just fall into your hands or do you need a place to be declared as count?
johnhughthom, when you do the next update, can you mark the chancellors in the opening post, so that we don't have to keep tracking down that post when figuring out who to contact in the other duchies.
Originally Posted by TheLastDays:
It is outrageous to bring something like this before us. By what right does the Duchy of Leinster claim Mide? If there is no right for the Dukes of this island than it certainly can't just fall into your hands or do you need a place to be declared as count?
If you would listen to the words I have spoken, I do not intend to claim Mide in any other way than by the path of marriage. All this talk and these threats of war are as stupid as they are barbaric. I would ask my retainers to rein themselves in before they insult any of my fellow dukes. I apologize sincerely if this has already been done, Duke Kagemusha. It seems that like the tourney winner, my marshall too thinks more than is well of war and jousts and not of the purpose that God had created us with; to exist in his image.It is outrageous to bring something like this before us. By what right does the Duchy of Leinster claim Mide? If there is no right for the Dukes of this island than it certainly can't just fall into your hands or do you need a place to be declared as count?
Duke Diamondeye, what I said was not said to attack you but to adress one of your vassals who seems to think that the fate of Mide has already been decided.
It seems a few Duchys haven't quite decided to proceed, I'll extend the phase 24 hours to give more time.
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