Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

[robbiecon]

Questions to everyone alive or dead:

Do you believe that one of the remaining kings or champions is a Jotun? (yes or no, indicate "king" or "champion")

Do you want to risk either a come from behind victory or put the cherry on top of a spectacular failure and accuse one of them?


Your responses will tell me what I should do.

My belief is that one of the Kings is a Jotun. As for whether I think we should accuse one, I think it would be no harm, the only question is, who do we choose. I'm guessing you have knowledge as to who is a King (or a decent inclination by now). Throw your hat on a target, and I'll toss mine in too.

[Renata]

Why does everyone feel such a need to network though? Pizzaguy, you must be in a philosophical mood...tell me why this is?

All three dead Aesir outed themselves in public, just saying.

And I'm not sure whether Believer's death might have been prevented by appropriate information in the right hands; I don't know exactly what happened there yet.

People network because it's fun, same reason people do anything else in these games. Smart or not has very little to do with it. You may as well ask why townies evaporate for days at a time, or utterly fail to act like townies, then wonder why they get lynched -- my own personal annoyance.

That said, I personally took far too many risks this game, though there's only one I'm really embarrassed about. I'd wager Reenk could describe that one.

[Renata]

And yes, I believe that it is very likely that a living king or champion is a Jotun. I could not guess which one. I could suspect at least four of you, for different reasons.

[Renata]

From Romanic --

Call me crazy but I'm starting to believe Earthling's theory about Loki mind-controlling people to attack others.

Say what you want about Earthling, he is extremely good with figuring out game setups and should never be ignored when he starts talking about things like this. I think he's very likely correct. But that doesn't make Loki a Jotun; it makes him something else.

[Renata]

No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

You do realize that there's no indication that Believer or I were killed by the agency of the Jotun, right? It may have no direct bearing on things (heck, for all I know the Jotun and the other killers are in league by now), but you can't use our deaths as evidence of anything. B_ray's is the one that matters.

[Renata]

Far less interesting than you'd expect.

I have no defense, not going to offer one. You all can lynch my not-Jotun, not-guilty butt and I'm not going to say another word about it.

This is what happens when you all claim to me. That means I die after you guys die. That's all.

I would like to see you discuss everyone who knew about b_ray. At least one of them you have no reason to protect right now.

I'd also like to know why TinCow is still alive. The Jotun have been busy with Aesir, but the other killers have not. What are their goals?

[Renata]

That would be helpful. The times more so than the alive (I think we got that).



Yup, this is one of the main reasons I don't think it's you. Believer's death was bizzare, and B_ray's was coming. Renata's is still weird though. She was mum on things.

Relatively speaking, yes -- I didn't reveal my role to ATPG until yesterday (given ATPG's suggested he will confirm these times, I guess it's OK to say). But you may be playing coy here on me?

We know glyphz is a king and if you're a king, only one more king remains. Also Loki and Gyda are alive. So we likely only have 2 rounds to win this game...

That's essentially correct. The last king could go undetected for a while, perhaps, but the odds are pretty much nil that all Jotun will be found out first.

[Renata]

The gods, we know, claimed publicly in one form or another. B_Ray I even linked to as a reason why we shouldn't lynch him. I suggested I'd follow up on that or something. We almost did lynch him that day.

I guess nobody even noticed that Believer was ALSO on the docket that day. At least I did one thing right this game. My vote change saved them both.

I was inquiring to see who would say what about that theory. Basically nobody bought it.

Hah. You should have spoken to me. We could have had a beautifully paranoia-filled chat.

I am not a Jotun, and the only way you'll know that for sure is when I am dead I suppose. That is a bad lynch and today may be your last shot at saving the game. However, you do not have any good, serious leads that I can see, and if I were to make a suggestion that is on my mind it would probably just make things worse because it banks on the Kings/Champions having a Jotun among them theory.

Explain why knowledge of b_ray's exact role is not a pre-requisite for the Jotun to have used two killers on him. You knew. The person who gave you his role PM knew. Who else, or why doesn't it matter?

[Renata]

White eyes will be the last Jotun to die due to his help.

Atpg has the fact that classical investigated him as a bit of an alibi, though Atpg claims that himself. Vote: Romanic Quote your role PM. Because you'll die either in the lynch or at night.

It's not much of an alibi, night zero inactivity. If you were AtPG and Jotun with two other guys, and acutely aware of how you get meta-gamed, which of you three would be active on night zero and which not?

I don't know why I'm arguing, really, I have no idea who the bad guys are.

Anyway, from the post previous to yours (doing this all out of order), TinCow also knew about b_ray: I had forgotten about b_ray's protection. But that's probably irrelevant, and ATPG knows why. He needs to discuss the person he got the role PM from.

[Renata]

4) And an aggravating factor against you about this game (you know what I'm talking about).

Actually I don't.

So, "if I was Town", the pressure made a lot of sense to me, call it a mistake if you want, but it's not in my opinion. Your claim should have helped us, since the alternative was me making a public case on you, which could have been far worse than just me knowing your identity. I gave you a choice, and you decided to reveal your identity. Now of course it looks bad since you are dead, but all I can say is that I have nothing to do with your death. Others knew about your identity so meh, it must be one of them, or perhaps a shot in the dark, though 2 kings and 1 Aesir dying implies otherwise.

Depends on whether or not the Jotun and the other killers are collaborating. Since there's no way to know that, I can't be bothered thinking on it.

You're obviously receptive to the idea that b_ray's manner of death was meaningful, given there's no known connection of you yourself to b_ray's exact identity. Tell me what you think then about the idea that ATPG is refraining from discussing the person who gave him b_ray's role PM because he's concerned it will then come down to a choice of one of the two of them. That he is bringing up the "one of kings/champions is guilty" thing (although undoubtedly correct) as a way of getting in one more mislynch (and of a king/champion, bonus -- though it hardly matters) before that decision becomes an issue.

Tell me what you think, Romanic.

[autolycus]

I'm still betting on Gyda being scum. She seems awfully good with a sword, not just surviving but actually killing her attacker, who was a king, if I'm reading the write-up accurately, and she doesn't want her mission being interrupted. What's her mission. Could it be create conflict and chaos? Because that's what she seems to have done.

[TinCow]

I'm still betting on Gyda being scum. She seems awfully good with a sword, not just surviving but actually killing her attacker, who was a king, if I'm reading the write-up accurately,

You can thank my father for that ability. He trained his daughter well.

and she doesn't want her mission being interrupted. What's her mission. Could it be create conflict and chaos? Because that's what she seems to have done.

Find Jotun, avoid the guy who's trying to kill me. My weak feminine emotions have gotten the better of me and for some reason I feel bad that so many people are about to die because of me.

[TheLastDays]

Tell me what you think then about the idea that ATPG is refraining from discussing the person who gave him b_ray's role PM because he's concerned it will then come down to a choice of one of the two of them

I did.

At that point I was trying to figure out if I could trust B_Ray and I had been talking to ATPG already. If ATPG isn't scum I don't think I did any harm with it, I didn't talk to anyone else about B_Rays claims. If ATPG is scum I was just one of the players who willingly handed him the game...

Now I want to openly ask a question that I asked ATPG about B_Rays PM. He told me he protected me and TinCow the night that Arnvid Torarinsson was attacked and survived a night attack. That's why he asked me if I was Arnvid and I told him yes. But the truth is, I am not. Believer was Arnvid Torarinsson. So, how did Believer survive the attack that night, since he wasn't protected by B_Ray at all?

Also, if Andres/Loki is protown and he's the killer that does the crazed people why is he now responsible for the death of three kings?!

[Renata]

I doubt that Loki is protown -- if he is, he could clearly have used just a tad bit more of that townie networking that everyone's so down on. I just have a hard time seeing him as Jotun given the patterns in the writeups.

(This means nothing about Andres specifically, who could be a lying liar who lies.)

Believer probably survived due to being hopped up on Loki-juice.

[TheLastDays]

Why would he be on Loki-juice? I thought our current theory is that Loki sends the crazy killers. Why would he send a killer after Believer and then protect him?

[Chaotix]

Looks like we're pretty screwed.

Unvote, Vote: Diamondeye

Loki, if you really are the one giving everyone berserk potions, do me a favor and kill Romanic for us, too.

That said, I don't believe it's Loki doing this.

[TinCow]

Are the votes on Diamondeye because he's ATPG's suspect for the town leak? It seems like that's the reason, but I can't find any post where that's actually stated.

[B-Wing]

That's why he asked me if I was Arnvid and I told him yes. But the truth is, I am not.

[TinCow]

Is TLD a champion or a king? Did any of the gods investigate him while he was alive?

[Renata]

Are the votes on Diamondeye because he's ATPG's suspect for the town leak? It seems like that's the reason, but I can't find any post where that's actually stated.

I don't think so. There seems to be no reason for them whatsoever.

[Renata]

Why would he be on Loki-juice? I thought our current theory is that Loki sends the crazy killers. Why would he send a killer after Believer and then protect him?

Believer was the crazy-killer (one of them anyway) last night. The working theory is that he was possessed in some fashion, though I guess it hasn't been entirely ruled out that he did it of his own volition. Secondary to that theory is that the possession made him stronger (strong enough to survive an attack by the other crazy-killer).

Which implies by the way that both are not controlled by the same person, though for all I know that's some sort of elaborate fakery, too.

[White_eyes:D]

All three dead Aesir outed themselves in public, just saying.

And networking helped narrow down the suspect list. If D_E is a Jotun then, he was really handed a victory on a silver platter. I recall you and believer voting for D_E on day four? did you already suspect something of him?

[Renata]

He was acting entirely scummalicious. I personally thought, probably too much so to be guilty. When he's actually scum, he tends to be more circumspect. I voted for him only because I could see him being an eternal distraction down the line; those posts of his were really horrible, easy-peasy lynch bait. I thought sooner would be better than later.

[Believer]

I would never harm anyone, I'm not mean enough.

[TinCow]

Vote: ATPG

I think we all agree the Jotun have someone inside the network. ATPG is inside the network. ATPG believes that a King or Champion is a Jotun. ATPG claims to be a King or a Champion. ATPG strongly believes that we need to lynch a specific King/Champion he suspects of being the leak and made a big deal about it. ATPG then votes for someone who is apparently not who he suspects of being the network leak. This seems pretty clear cut to me.

[edit]Also...

FOS: TLD

[White_eyes:D]

Really should have given that case back when we all were jumping on ATPG, TinCow.

Now town might have shot itself in the head.

[Renata]

All of this discussion about other things aside, I'd probably be voting for white_eyes if I could vote today, out of sheer perversity. He'd kill Seamus and think it was funny, he's gloating all over the place today, and he challenged Nightbringer on the "theory" (obviously bogus) that we were both scum together. The real reason was obviously that Nightbringer gave an impression of being exactly what he was, a generic townie -- Nightbringer's reaction to Tratorix' PM made that completely obvious -- someone white_eyes could expect to defeat.

Secondarily, ATPG, on the suspicion that he is setting up this king for the fall, and that he would not have asked the townies' "permission" first if he himself were a townie. And because he knew about B-ray.

Thirdly, Romanic, for bashing me over the head with that forced reveal, and for being approximately 25 times as talkative today as previously -- when things are godawful for the town, look for depressed participation there. We get the opposite with Romanic.

Fourthly, Tratorix, because it would be lousy to have saved a Jotun for no reason.

Fifthly, Reenk.

[Renata]

Really should have given that case back when we all were jumping on ATPG, TinCow.

Now town might have shot itself in the head.

Oh good lord, white_eyes, could you be any more obvious.

[TheLastDays]

It was actually a mistake, man. When you asked me I honestly didn't remember my character's name and looked back at my role PM wherein the bolding is a bit weird, as in, my character's name is not bolded, only the name of my king, Arnvid Torarinsson, was bolded. I didn't look closely and told you I was Arnvid Torarinsson because I thought I was... Sorry... I messed up quite a few things in this game...

Is TLD a champion or a king? Did any of the gods investigate him while he was alive?

I'm a champion, since it has been stated several times and my king is already dead I see no need to hide it anymore.

I would never harm anyone, I'm not mean enough.

I didn't imply that. I am trying to figure out the mechanics of the crazed killers...

[Renata]

Come to think of it, TLD is up there somewhere also, for using false pretenses to get b_ray's role PM.

Edit: Say exactly how that went down with b_ray TLD. Who approached whom and how and etc.