First Impressions?

[SalmonSoil]

Anyone here care to explain what the point is in marriage inside your own clan or children for that matter? None of these events are going to benefit you w/in the time frame of the campaign.

As a result, it would be nice if CA had actually given this some proper thought and addressed it by providing more frequent offers to convert a unit to a general.

Because in my current campaign, if I manage to kill off just a couple folks, I'm going to quickly start turning peasants in leaders of my clan.

In my campaign I got a new general every time I unlocked a new commissioner role. It doesn't happen on the exact same turn so the events appear unconnected, perhaps they are?

[Madae]

FOTS is the first Total War expansion that I'm really impressed with. So far, all the past expansions have just been kind of "eh" to me, like they were just trying to capitalize on the main game without doing anything better - more factions, different era, etc etc. FOTS, I think, perfectly blends Empire with Shogun, and it does a really good job at it by making the game fun and entertaining throughout. I rarely finish a campaign in any Total War game, even the ones I really like (like Empire, Medieval 2, Shogun 2...), but I'm actually enjoying the end game in FOTS, and mostly because I don't feel so alone because of the realm divide (as far as I know, pro-whatever's tend to stick together, except when one is more lopsided than the other, and pro-whatever fight among themselves because they have no way to expand). Battles are fun and entertaining all the way through the game, which definitely helps.

But, I will comment on some of the things frog posted since she made the most comments that covers a lot;

The good.

• More music, and every bit as excellent as the music from S2 and RotS. It fits in very well.
• AI turns cycle much faster, I'd say around twice as fast.
• Fleshed out diplomacy info is nice.
• Economy on hard is very tight. Not much money to go around in the early days.
• No more trade nodes!

The above I agree with. The music is really nice, turns are faster than Shogun 2, and diplomacy seems less cut-throat. I've had the Tosa as allies in my entire Satsuma campaign. My vassal backstabbed me, but that really wasn't a big deal I suppose, and they did have some past grievances.

The economy is definitely a lot tighter than Shogun 2, especially without trade nodes (I liked them...). The biggest thing I've seen about the economy is that a simple mission to assassinate some character could result in a 50% boost to your income just like that. When I was hard up for money, I got several missions over the course of the game that was a huge sigh of relief, and all I had to do was kill this guy, raid this port, blah blah blah, and my money skyrocketed. Missions are a lot more important when it comes to that.

The bad.

• I loathe, detest, and despise the new battle announcer's voice with the fire of a thousand burning suns. No, that's not an exaggeration.
• Naval battles. I've done a few. I guess they're a bit better. I still don't care for them. Slow, limited, boring, unless you really like cannons going bang.
• I've seen a few bizarre AI moves, including a naval battle where it sat there and never moved.
• Now I can understand what my units are saying, I wish they'd be quiet. Endless choruses of "The enemy is in sight!" and "Hold steady!", unit after unit saying the same limited phrases every 30 seconds or so. I much preferred it when they spoke Japanese, and spoke less often.
• New character growth trees. Gain 1 point per level, and all abilities cost 1 point to max out. That means you are always gaining something new, rather than pumping up an existing ability.
• Load times are improved according to the patch notes. It doesn't feel like it. Rather the opposite.

First, I don't really mind the announcer. I imagine it was a way to try and connect with The Last Samurai, since that was a lot like how they talked in that movie. I don't know if it's historically accurate (though I will lean towards yes). I guess I'm just neutral on it. There are one or two instances in past games where I just couldn't stand a certain voice, but this isn't one of them. The voices of other units are not bad either - I guess it's a personal thing.

Your comment on naval battles doesn't seem like a bug to me. When I'm the attacking fleet, almost always the enemy ship will be at the far end of the map with his guns facing me, which is exactly how I would place myself if I was on the defending side. This way I/they can fire as soon as the enemy comes into sight, where the attacking army has to move up and then turn to place the guns into sight.

You are right that they are a little slow, though. The British "Warrior" ironclad is unbearably slow for how awesome it is, but I suppose that's the drawback. My guess is that certain ships are not meant for sea battles, and are better for bombarding cities, armies and ports. Not that these ships aren't awesome in fleet battles with all their cannons, but ships that are somewhere in the middle seem to be the best option for sea battles, something that combines speed and firepower. More often than not, a few well placed shots, or specials like explosive rounds on wooden ships, pretty much determine the battle. I've had great ships be destroyed by smaller, dinky ships because they just ran in circles around me, or got this one lucky shot that blew up my steam engine, or set it on fire, or just sank it. Compared to Empire, sea battles definitely seem a lot more even, and even a wooden ship can still be a danger to an iron plated ship (in comparison to Empire where if you had 1st or 2nd rates, you were practically unstoppable in the water). It's not an "i win" button, it just increases the odds slightly.

Finally, the unit advancement trees are not 1 point per level. At level 3, I think, you get two points (or maybe its level 4), and then at level 6 you get 3 points (or something like that, anyway... I don't follow it exactly), so it's possible to get all 3 rank 6 abilities, though you're more or less becoming a jack of all trades instead of being focused in one area, despite the many bonuses. You end up sacrificing points to buff particular skills higher. Some of the rank 6 bonuses are really nice too. Geisha's get a 10% bonus to tax income across all provinces... that is nothing to scoff at. I can't remember the others, but I know they were well worth it.

On the flip side, agents may be a little too powerful. I have 5, almost maxed rank, Ishen Ishi walking around enemy provinces just throwing up rebel incursions like it was nothing. I have to leave them there a few turns to make the province pro-imperial, but I could constantly raise armies to rebel against them since money is not so much of an issue at the later game, and it really doesn't cost that much. Assassinations are really powerful, too. I don't know if agents are broken, but they are really damn good. I don't use shinobi much, since Geisha and Ishen Ishi serve the same purpose. Foreign Advisors are almost always attached to my army or to my main training hub.

Withholding judgement:

• The tech tree. It's segmented according to your development, which makes it harder to use a deep/focused style of research. They may or may not be too restrictive, will have to play on and see.
• Gun battles. Guns are not my cup of military tea, and I haven't had chance to explore many tactical options yet. So far it's not exactly edifying.
• Artillery. I am scoring scary kill-counts with entry-level cannon. I hate to think how devastating the later guns will be, and fear that such strong artillery will make battles less exciting in the long run.
• Zones of control for armies and navies. Now that the map is bigger, the zones of control around each army/navy feel a bit on the small side. It's too easy for the enemy to bypass you.
• Happiness. Lots of happiness penalties as you modernise, not so many ways to counter. Not sure what the eventual balance will be. Could be good, could be tiresome to deal with.

The tech tree seems kind of lame at first - I was trying to raise specific techs and then I found out I couldn't because I wasn't modernized enough. I'm still kind of up in the air about it too, especially when it comes to pro-shogun armies since I'm not sure how they'll do well in the late game without those techs (unless they have different techs? I didn't notice even though my first, short game was with a pro-shogun clan). Pro-imperial doesn't have any problem at all doing the modernization, though you're right that you definitely need to keep an eye on modernization in towns.

I like gun battles.

Artillery is AWESOME in this game. Having played a lot of Empire (probably my favorite in the series, closely followed by Medieval 2), I was so surprised to see how much different artillery acts in this game compared to Empire. I made another post about it that better convey my thoughts, but in the short - I will not leave home without my artillery... ever.

You're right about zone control and ships sneaking by your ships really easy. This is especially annoying during the realm divide and enemy clans on the other side of the map attempt to land armies behind your lines (yeah, they actually do naval invasions that's 100% more annoying than Shogun 2). Sometimes when you have so much land, it's easy to forget that some dork in a gunboat just drove by your massive fleet, you forgot about it because you did a whole bunch of other stuff that turn, and then he just makes his way across to your biggest trading income port and blockades it. I've had that happen several times, and I regretted not paying attention (or in this case; forgetting about it).

Finally, happiness is not that hard to work around. Yes, you have to be careful and watch the happiness level in the province before building modern buildings, but it's really not that bad for several reasons;

1. Levies are not terrible troops for defense, and they cost a pitiful 80 gold upkeep. You can easily stack troops to increase order.
2. Certain buildings provide much needed income and don't have a penalty, or it's really small.
3. You need to upgrade castles and such before upgrade buildings in a city. Not a big deal, just more time consuming. Not only does it make your city more secure defensively, but it increases public order.

What I do in my games is find one really good province that makes a lot of money (has a gold mine or whatever), and make that a defensive province by building a nice amount of troops for defense, defensive structures, upgrades and whatever, and then all the other slots I focus on economy buildings. I had one province making 11000+ by itself, when my capitol was only making 1800 because I focused it on troop development. It was obviously valuable, and probably would have crippled me irreparably if I had lost it, so I always kept a nice garrison there for defense.

Police stations are going to be the thing you build when you're conquering settlements and can't think of anything else to build, or don't want to because of low public order. Along with inns, those are usually what I build in provinces I capture that I want to make money (increased public order against modern trade buildings). I really only have a few provinces that I focus building troops with because of certain bonuses the province provides (like Satsuma home province with the blacksmith), and those troop buildings have a heavy penalty. Upgrades to city level you should never be building unless you plan on making that a primary base (such as for income or troop training) as those provide a heavy modern penalty as well. A level 2 city with 2 slots is just fine for making money (inn/police station) or 3 if it has a good craft item (inn/station/workshop), and they also don't need a lot of extra troops to keep happiness above the red. As always, any big money maker needs a trading port as well.

In the end, you shouldn't be worrying about happiness being over 20 or some crap. All of my cities are 0-6 base with no troops garrisoned, maybe a little higher if I'm lucky. Newly turned provinces I build enough troops to keep it at 0, and switch taxes off if I need to. With police stations turning the population, along with ishen ishi, they eventually fall in line and I can disband whatever I don't need.

On a side note, your navy should be healthy, because a lot of money will be made from trade, and the AI likes to play footsy with 1 ship fleets. Your allies may not be aware of their/your predicament as well, and if an AI bombards a main trading port, that can hurt your economy a lot. I send one of my own fleets to defend their route.

I started with Satsuma on hard. By the time I'd got it running smoothly, I realised I didn't like their clan bonuses much. I quit, and started to mess around with historical and custom battles instead in order to doublecheck performance. Next time, I'll begin a new campaign with a different clan.

I haven't noticed clan bonuses at all in my game. In fact, I forgot what Satsuma even provides, and it doesn't matter because I trounce everything I run across anyway. I vaguely remember one pro-shogun clan getting a + to traditional troops, but I really don't think the clan bonuses is a deal breaker. I wouldn't worry about it at all. It also doesn't matter especially if you play, say, a pro-shogun clan, and then decide to turn pro-imperial.

[frogbeastegg]

The biggest thing I've seen about the economy is that a simple mission to assassinate some character could result in a 50% boost to your income just like that.

After around 18 hours of play in 3 different campaigns, I haven't seen a single one of those. Hardly seen any missions aside from the set clans get at the beginning.

Your comment on naval battles doesn't seem like a bug to me. When I'm the attacking fleet, almost always the enemy ship will be at the far end of the map with his guns facing me, which is exactly how I would place myself if I was on the defending side. This way I/they can fire as soon as the enemy comes into sight, where the attacking army has to move up and then turn to place the guns into sight.

When I said it did nothing, I was being literal. It did nothing. It didn't fire back, it didn't move, it just sat there.

Naval battles are not my cup of tea. Never have been, doubt I ever will be. My intention was to say that steam-powered ships with torpedos don't manage to change that, as some of the pre-release material made it sound as if it possibly might. As long as I can auto-calc them without being penalised, I'm happy and don't mind them being part of the game if other players enjoy them.

Finally, the unit advancement trees are not 1 point per level.

First impressions At that point I'd only played for a few hours and hadn't gotten an agent past level 2.

Now I've reached high-level agents, I don't know. I look at the ability selection and basically pick whether I go left, right or middle, all the way to the end. Not much of a meaningful choice ... but then, that's always been the case since you have to tailor the skills to the agent's role. Hard to see how CA could improve on this. I'll give them a pass here, same as I did in the other two samurai campaigns.

The tech tree seems kind of lame at first - I was trying to raise specific techs and then I found out I couldn't because I wasn't modernized enough. I'm still kind of up in the air about it too, especially when it comes to pro-shogun armies since I'm not sure how they'll do well in the late game without those techs (unless they have different techs? I didn't notice even though my first, short game was with a pro-shogun clan). Pro-imperial doesn't have any problem at all doing the modernization, though you're right that you definitely need to keep an eye on modernization in towns.

Now I've unlocked the whole thing and reached the middle of a campaign, I've decided I don't like the new system much. Certain techs feel important, most of the rest much less so. Because techs are relatively free from links, it's easy to cherry pick the techs I want instead of needing to commit to a direction. On occasion, I'm forced to research techs I don't want because I don't have enough modernisation, and that does not feel like fun. Overall I find the tree presents few interesting choices, and contains fewer things which I want. I do not need an overall research strategy, I guess that's the main problem for me.

My Shogunate game is the one which has progressed furthest, and I've had no problems reaching max modernisation by 7 provinces. As far as I can see, the tech tree is identical. Modernisation is the only way; remaining traditional is punitive because you can't research much, and won't get many bonuses. That's understandable I suppose, but it does mean that there's no important choice to be made and that games will soon feel samey unless the player chooses to handicap themselves.

Artillery is AWESOME in this game.

I'm settling on "It's too good." The AI can't deal with me using it, and will only field the rare wooden cannon unit itself. Considering that I'm already finding battles too easy and am mostly fighting junk-grade armies, artillery feels like I'm taking advantage of the AI in a cheap way. It's not fun to use in those circumstances.

You're right about zone control and ships sneaking by your ships really easy. This is especially annoying during the realm divide and enemy clans on the other side of the map attempt to land armies behind your lines (yeah, they actually do naval invasions that's 100% more annoying than Shogun 2). Sometimes when you have so much land, it's easy to forget that some dork in a gunboat just drove by your massive fleet, you forgot about it because you did a whole bunch of other stuff that turn, and then he just makes his way across to your biggest trading income port and blockades it. I've had that happen several times, and I regretted not paying attention (or in this case; forgetting about it).

It's the same with land armies. The only time the AI has given me any trouble whatsoever (different subject) was when it happily walked right by the army I had guarding the narrow pass leading to my capital. It squeezed by the zone of control, walked halfway across the province, and laid siege to my province.

I think that the small zone of control ties into movement speeds to create a result I find problematic. Armies do not move very far, so it's hard to cover much defensive ground with them. That makes the bypass annoying. Then, it's painfully slow to chase down the enemy, and return to position. If armies could move further, I wouldn't mind so much. If they had bigger zones of control, the low movement speed would probably be ok. The combination results in a lot of tiresome walking.

Finally, happiness is not that hard to work around.

Sadly, you're right. I've found it easy to ignore, more a stat to throw money at than a real strategic consideration. Convert loyalty, build up the castle, throw in several levy units to act as a garrison, and add a police station if there's a real problem due to modernisation. Job done. Disappointing, and not enjoyable to deal with.

Police stations are going to be the thing you build when you're conquering settlements and can't think of anything else to build, or don't want to because of low public order. Along with inns, those are usually what I build in provinces I capture that I want to make money (increased public order against modern trade buildings). I really only have a few provinces that I focus building troops with because of certain bonuses the province provides (like Satsuma home province with the blacksmith), and those troop buildings have a heavy penalty. Upgrades to city level you should never be building unless you plan on making that a primary base (such as for income or troop training) as those provide a heavy modern penalty as well. A level 2 city with 2 slots is just fine for making money (inn/police station) or 3 if it has a good craft item (inn/station/workshop), and they also don't need a lot of extra troops to keep happiness above the red. As always, any big money maker needs a trading port as well.

I've been going cottage industry, market, and police station as standard in all of my provinces, in that order as I unlock slots. I let one province handle all military stuff, as each military building family adds an extra recruitment slot. Keeping recruitment centralised lets you raise forces quickly, and spares you the multiple turn wait as individual army components march to a gathering point.

Money is king in FotS. Everything revolves around getting more. Unfortunately, that kind of invalidates a bunch of choices. Difficult; money was too easy to come by in S2 thanks to the trade nodes, and so I appreciate the effort to make the economy tighter. I'm just not sure about the result yet. It feels like it may have gone a bit too far in the other direction, at least on hard.

I haven't noticed clan bonuses at all in my game. In fact, I forgot what Satsuma even provides, and it doesn't matter because I trounce everything I run across anyway.

Satsuma gets an extra province and a vassal, and I decided I didn't like the shape they pulled my game into.

Unfortunately, I agree with the latter part too. The game is very easy. On normal, it's mind-numbing. On hard, it's only difficult because they increased the costs of buildings and units, and that means you can't afford to do much. Also, I've found that the AI goes rather psychotic on hard. Unlike S2 and RotS, I do not feel like I am being legitimately challenged. The AI itself is not very good, not at all. It constantly fields tiny armies of levy units. In 18 hours, the (very rare!) full stacks I have seen comprised of levy infantry and a wooden cannon or three. On the battlefield, it charges its general right at me, and then appears uncertain as to what it should do with the rest of its army.

Overall ... after 20 hours I don't like FotS much, and it truly saddens me to say that. It feels far too easy, the AI is quite weak, and the game fails to present me with a good array of meaningful strategic choices. I do not find the style of warfare engaging, particularly since the AI fails to field decent armies. The new style of difficulty setting is a massive disappointment. Many of the units seem useless, and too many of the buildings offer choices between near-identical results. The pacing feels off too. By nature I'm a slow player, I like to develop and research, and yet I'm finding FotS rather plodding. I spend too much time waiting to be able to do things, whether it's waiting for modernisation to kick up a level so I can research, or waiting for an army to amble into position.

I knew from the day it was announced that FotS would be a harder game for me to like, since I do not like gunpowder era warfare or pre-modern history. All the same, I hoped the design would be good enough to overcome that. I'll continue to play for a while, see if I can at least finish 2 campaigns before giving up. It's possible I've had some freak bad luck, or that something need patching (game is full of glitches for me), and things will improve. If not, I'll be shelving it and drawing my katana once more.

[Madae]

I'm not sure I understand why someone would be willing to play a game for more than 20 hours, be disappointed with it as much as you seem to be, and still keep playing it as if anything is going to change. Maybe with a patch or something, but I think if the game hasn't caught you yet, you should probably just spare yourself the time and move on. If a game can't keep me interested in the first 1-2 hours, I'll never play it again - frees up a lot of spare time. ;)

[Peasant Phill]

I've just played my first naval battle. I noticed how fast a ship routs. I can understand that a gun boat choses to flee after 2 or 3 broadsides from a corvette decimates more than half the crew but didn't expect the same from my corvette.
In short you have to be very careful with your ships and defending gives you a big advantage.

[frogbeastegg]

I'm not sure I understand why someone would be willing to play a game for more than 20 hours, be disappointed with it as much as you seem to be, and still keep playing it as if anything is going to change. Maybe with a patch or something, but I think if the game hasn't caught you yet, you should probably just spare yourself the time and move on. If a game can't keep me interested in the first 1-2 hours, I'll never play it again - frees up a lot of spare time. ;)

I made an agreement and intend to honour it, although when I made that agreement I didn't know how disappointed I'd be with the game. I said I would play a "No Gun Shogun" game and do an AAR here, making a joke out of my stated dislike for gunpowder warfare and modernisation. See how far I could get whilst remaining staunchly traditional. It should have been funny, ending with me going down in flames and gunpowder. The game handles modernisation differently to what I expected, so it's going to be more of a handicap game than planned. On the other hand, if the AI behaves in the same way I should be able to katana people to death for a lot longer than expected. We'll see how long I survive. That will be my second campaign, using Aizu.

[Peasant Phill]

Perhaps it's been said before, but I'm getting seasick from the moving menu screens.

[Sp4]

You mean the main menu? I am pretty sure that can be turned off with some fiddling around with files or somesuch.

[Graphic]

Perhaps it's been said before, but I'm getting seasick from the moving menu screens.

I like it, especially the railroad and the ship tour.

[Madae]

I made an agreement and intend to honour it, although when I made that agreement I didn't know how disappointed I'd be with the game. I said I would play a "No Gun Shogun" game and do an AAR here, making a joke out of my stated dislike for gunpowder warfare and modernisation. See how far I could get whilst remaining staunchly traditional. It should have been funny, ending with me going down in flames and gunpowder. The game handles modernisation differently to what I expected, so it's going to be more of a handicap game than planned. On the other hand, if the AI behaves in the same way I should be able to katana people to death for a lot longer than expected. We'll see how long I survive. That will be my second campaign, using Aizu.

I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.

[Veho Nex]

I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.

Its very easy I found to conquer without modernizing. Play against the AI weaknesses such as using your general as bait while your troops sit in woods or using plenty of cav to flank. My no gun game went much smoother and considerably easier than my game where i rushed tech and had the most advanced armies

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I really think CA should be reading these threads, I've been on the total war forums(the official one) And people have been complaining about FOTS issues, they've even started a ''patch notes for thread'' list. Also, it has been confirmed that CA intend to release all the missing units of NTW.

But really, Thanks for the patch which spoiled my 2nd computer. Hopefully, it should work on the 1st one, Oh and please read the threads about FOTS issues and get the damn game fixed. I'm no longer going to remain in a Shogunate-CA place if they don't release some good patches, and bring back the lust and glory of the blood pack, we need the gloss and shine. I might as well go to the Imperalist side.

[frogbeastegg]

I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you if you decide to renege on that agreement, but to each his own.

There's always the hope it will turn out better. Some games improve when you stop viewing them seriously. If not, I won't have lost much, may have provided a bit of entertainment for people, and can shelve the game in the knowledge I gave it a good shot.

[Peasant Phill]

I don't know if it's only the saga faction but I find there victory conditions very illogical. In the short campaign on medium (yes, I play my first campaign on the difficulty as intended by CA) they need to conquer 2 provinces on the other side of the map (both far apart) with no strategic significance (at first glance). It's like the developers just threw 2 darts to determine which provinces needed to be conquered.

[andrewt]

I don't have my game yet but I seem to remember from screenshots that one of them is Tokyo. I think the other is the capital of Aizu domain.

[Graphic]

It's Kyoto and Edo - one is where the Emperor lives, the other is the Shogun's house.

[easytarget]

Did I miss something, or is the province summary display you pull up by double clicking on the province capital missing the specialization of that province? Mine are all blank where at the top it used to list what that province specialized in. It was in S2. It was in ROTS. Why would they remove it? Or did it move somewhere else? If so, let me know where.

[jepp21]

I find that my infantry often gets stuck on fences around the bonusses. When they are stuck I can't move them for the duration of the entire battle. It seems to be related to the "kneel" ability

I also find that ships often catches fire or explodes by just enabling "overheat" or taking 1 hit. This goes for the largest ironclads too

[Sp4]

Infantry gets stuck on cover when you send them into it with the kneeling ability activated.

Fix: Send them to a different part of cover or a different cover, wait for them to leave the cover they are in and click 'Stop'. Now you can deselect the 'Kneel' ability and use them again.

[Peasant Phill]

I don't have my game yet but I seem to remember from screenshots that one of them is Tokyo. I think the other is the capital of Aizu domain.

It's Kyoto and Edo - one is where the Emperor lives, the other is the Shogun's house.

I already thought of that. The provinces in the objectives are vaguely in the vicinity of Kyoto and Edo but certainly not in a place to directly protect or threathen both cities. Conquering and holding isolated provinces with little strategical value just seems illogical. Or are these victory conditions grounded in historical reality?

[jepp21]

It is Tokyo and Edo. The provinces are called something defferent. Edo was the seat og the Tokugawa Shogunate, and Tokugawa Ieyasus' main capital after the Sengoku Jidai. Kyoto has alwaays been the seat of the Japanese emperor.

[Madae]

I think there is some confusion here. Edo was later renamed to Tokyo.

And like jepp pointed out; both have value, because both seated someone in power (Kyoto = Emperor, Edo/Tokyo = Shogunate). You wouldn't conquer the Romans without conquering Rome. Unless, of course, they gave up, but no one in power is just going to give it up when victory can easily be decided by a single battle.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I think there is some confusion here. Edo was later renamed to Tokyo.

And like jepp pointed out; both have value, because both seated someone in power (Kyoto = Emperor, Edo/Tokyo = Shogunate). You wouldn't conquer the Romans without conquering Rome. Unless, of course, they gave up, but no one in power is just going to give it up when victory can easily be decided by a single battle.

And so you make the eventful return.

[easytarget]

Is my post above in invisible ink?

[econ21]

Is my post above in invisible ink?

I haven't played FotS yet, but I've read someone else make the same comment. One response was that there are symbols for the province specialisms visible on the map, but these apparently are not very obvious or easily interpretable. It does sound a step backwards.

[easytarget]

Thx man for the response!

I was just asking because it struck me as an odd step back and unnecessary. Taking info away from the player they previously had available to them for no reason just struck me as wrong headed and honestly unfathomable.

[Gregoshi]

I was just asking because it struck me as an odd step back and unnecessary. Taking info away from the player they previously had available to them for no reason just struck me as wrong headed and honestly unfathomable.

Sounds like it is probably a bug, and a small enough thing to be overlooked during testing.

[Graphic]

I already thought of that. The provinces in the objectives are vaguely in the vicinity of Kyoto and Edo but certainly not in a place to directly protect or threathen both cities. Conquering and holding isolated provinces with little strategical value just seems illogical. Or are these victory conditions grounded in historical reality?

You can meet the victory conditions by just having an ally control the required provinces now. The Imperial/Shogun faction needs to achieve hegemony over Japan, not your clan specifically.

[Peasant Phill]

You can meet the victory conditions by just having an ally control the required provinces now. The Imperial/Shogun faction needs to achieve hegemony over Japan, not your clan specifically.

Oh, OK. That seems more logical.

BTW, I've checked again and it was definetly not Edo and Tokyo in the victory conditions.

[TargetSlayer]

Appreciate the feedback by others. I especially enjoyed the detailed comments by Madae. Mine will be brief.

I cannot believe the hours I have enjoyed with this expansion already. I really didn't enjoy Shogun 2, although I did find the RotS more engaging. With Empire and Napoleon I didn't expect to enjoy ranged contests as much as I did, but now with Shogun I am back enjoying rifles and cannons along with Gatling guns. I also enjoy the naval battles again. In Shogun they were a disappointment to me after Empire/Napoleon.

With regards to gameplay, I appreciate that the game no longer penalizes you when developing/expanding your settlements. While some care is needed at the beginning, I have nearly fully developed all my older settlements without too much difficulty. On my second play through I will probably specialize more.

I do find you have to play almost every naval battle or be prepared to lose an Ironclad or two needlessly. Also, I find that the AI sends a lot of small fleets to harass your harbours, fair enough though tiring to chase them all down. Can't seem to contain them.

On Normal the battles seem too easy with a modern army possessing say 4 cannons and a couple Gatling guns, but I suppose it should be. Not a big complaint as I shamefully just like expanding my empire slowly, micro-managing everything to death. Strong opposition is counter productive to all this business.

I also find the agents a bit too powerful, and I am disappointed that my strong agents cannot thwart the actions of the opposition better than they seem to be doing. Pushing the frontline further east has resulted in a tonne of enemy agents killing a lot of my agents and generals. Next time I will endeavour to bring a lot more developed agents to the front. Geishas don't seem that useful to me. Foreign army trainers and your police agents are however very useful, at least to my gameplay style.

Anyway, this was supposed to be short. Playing every night at the moment and enjoying the game. With some tweaks it should be better.