The Castration of Boxing

[Vuk]

Kinda skimmed past this the first time, but - how do you know anything about this? Farmers trained for explosive speed? AND WHO SAYS MODERN STRENGTH TRAINING IS ONLY ABOUT INCREASED MUSCLE MASS? Besides you, of course. You're really saying we lost the precious secrets to strength training, and our huge knowledge of the science behind it cannot possibly compete with ye-olde-strengthe techniques from the ferocious farmers/pit fighters of old?



Farming, apparently, builds special muscles that are way better than the muscles you can get in a gym.

CR

I never said that farmers trained for explosive speed. I said that athletes 100+ years ago focused a lot more on explosive strength.
My point is that there is not a perfect correlation between strength and muscle mass. Strength has a lot more to do with knowing how to best use what you have than having massive biceps. My bros and I grew up doing some very hard work, and because of that we have always been able to out muscle people with a lot more muscle mass than us.
Don't tell me that spending 10-14 hours a day for a few weeks a year splitting hardword to burn during the winter with a 12lb maul, starting when you were just a wee child is not going to teach you something about hitting hard and fast. Don't tell me that spending 12+ hours a day digging and hauling rocks for two months to fix a septic tank, get rid of an old leech field, and put in a new one is not going to build better core strength than training 1-2 hours a day at a gym.
Don't tell me that carrying huge field stones around all day is not going to build better full body strength than working for 1-2 hours in the gym.
Muscle gained from hard work keeps going all day, and your body adapts to exhaustion and learns to use its strength very efficiently. So much of fighting is just dealing with an opponents force. Hauling, pushing, pulling, and steadying heavy loads all day (often on very rough footing) is gonna teach you that and teach you excellent ballance.
No, it alone will not make you an excellent fighter, but it is a much better base for a young fighter to have than playing computer games or basketball through their childhood.

My bros and I did work like that since we were tiny children, and we have been able to our wrestle guys much bigger than us, with much more muscle than us, who were trained wrestlers, even though all we knew about wrestling is what we learned from messing around on our spare time.
My point was not about occupation, but about time. People 100+ years ago worked much harder from a young age, and so had a much better base fitness to build on. You look at the young kids today, whether from a nice suburban neighborhood or from the ghetto, and they are pathetic. Most have never done a day's work in their lives.

Speed hits harder. A very strong person hits slower, it's closer to pushing than it is to hitting. Think of it in kinetics, the amount of energy delivered.

Agreed on the first point, but not the second. A very strong person does not necassarily hit slower. They often do because they train by slowly lifting heavy weights, which makes them able to slowly move heavy things, but not move explosively. Hard work and training focused on explosive force build muscle a lot slower, but it is possible for a very strong person to hit just as fast and potentially faster than a small person.

About speed though, I agree. KE = ½ mv².V there is the most important factor. Even small people have plenty enough mass in their bodies to throw behind their punches if they have good technique, and do plenty of damage. What really matters most of all is the speed at which they launch their arm and body forward. Something that a lot of modern amateur boxing morons don't understand. To take splitting wood as an example, I often will choose the lighter maul (say, 12 instead of 14.5lbs, and when I was younger, 8, instead of 12) because I can make it travel faster, and therefore split more effectively than if I had chosen the larger one.

After what Vuk said this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Having taken some physics in my lifetime and having an understanding of how a punch hits and feels I question your ability to comment on this.

Look guys I figured it out. Since Vuk worked on farms he is naturally predisposed to be a superior human being than I am. This is why he was allowed to join the military and I cannot seem to pass my medical examination. He is just stronger, faster, and more of a h2h combat expert (which is a skillset that is of paramount importance on the modern battlefield). Basically because he is a superior specimen of man he is, as i stated before, stronger, faster, and an all around better physical athlete than my frail potentially division 1 body could ever hope to be. More so I should be afraid to ever enter the state of Wisconsin because his equally fit by a long lost secret regimen of farming labor brothers would beat my butt because to them I am nothing but a fly on the wall.

I completely concede my point to vuk in regards to boxing. If only I knew that there were secret methods that could make fighters even better. God only knows why the entire boxing world has regressed in training methods when Billy Bob out on the farm in Iowa is by default the greatest athlete in the America's. So of course I also agree with vuks point that we should switch to bareknuckle boxing. Ignore the fact that a boxing glove hits with more force than 4oz mma gloves or bare fists, thats irrelevant. We need to go back to the days of 6-8 hour boxing matches where two men were too scared of breaking their hands all they did was body shots on each other with the occasional straight jab. Also ignore that they usually ended up breaking their hands which is why men like John Sullivan ended up with severe crippling arthritis in his hands and could barely bend his fingers by the time he was in his fifties. But yeah it would be sick if we could start paying for 6 hour matches where the fighters circle each other forever and rupture each others internal organs. Then we would have the pleasure of seeing someone die on the mat from a ruptured spleen. Then we can start dragging farmboys off pops corn farm and setting them to fight each other once all of those weak azz "professional athletes" die off which should be soon since all they ever do is weak modern workouts. Then to fully perfect the art of boxing we will dissolve any sort of semblance of rules in the ring. This will destroy what was once a stinky good for nothing dance of two artists and create a shuffling lumbering brawl with no regard for finesse or technique. Excuse me this would actually develop "proper combos, effective guards and real defense."

At the end of the day guys the reason that Vuk is in command of Seal Team six is because he used to work on a farm. This made him the killing machine we see before us. Hopefully, one day if I ever encounter his farm trained army of supermen I will be able to run away. BUT WAIT!!!! His body is so hardened by the menial labor he takes an absurd joy in he will easily outpace my sub 4.9 40 yard dash speed all while being +300 pounds. Did I mention that farmwork gave Vuk a physique that grants him a waist size of 32 all while being over 300 pounds. I'm going to get a job on a farm right now so I can hopefully get stronger and faster like the 21st centuries Jim Thrope, Vuk.

You buffon.

I'll take your petty insults seriously Cent when you become team leader Seal Team six or any of the other absurd accomplishments you mentioned.
And for your information dollophead, when I first tried to join the military, I was not fat at all. I was rejected because of a genetic condition that was completely beyond my control. That has nothing to do with fitness or training.
I know though, you were an amateur boxer, so that makes you an expert. You were one of thousands of flabby idiots with no form and no skill who exhausted themselves by the second round throwing ineffective punches at each other for the sake of further degrading the sport of boxing and giving themselves hardons. Sorry for doubting you Mr. Pacquiao.

And to repeat myself (since you obviously did not read my post), I was not arguing that farmers are better fighters than professional athletes. I said that 100+ years ago when people did a lot of hard work since they were young (farm work being just one example of that), they had a lot better base to then go on and be athletes, then kids who grow up in the ghetto hanging out on the side of the street, or who sit in their 300k+ house playing Playstation as kids.