National or European

[SwordsMaster]

A shared cultural/historic heritage is important. Frenchmen have spilled more english blood than they have chinese. And yet, if they do not consider themselves to be in the same boat as the chinese (when the relationship is more or less coloured by indifference), why should they see themselves associated with the english when that relationship has been marked by conflict?

[a completely inoffensive name]

The latino vote. The black vote. The Cuban vote. etc, etc. I'm not sure if there's still an Italian vote, Irish vote, German vote, etc.
I've not seen the same behavior of naming and focusing, even with the larger and older immigrant waves in Sweden (that is people that can now vote), say Serb/Croats/Bosnians, Iranians and Irakians.

Statisticians and campaign managers push those labels and terms. The average American cares nothing about your specific ethnic background.

\\

[Montmorency]

Statisticians and campaign managers push those labels and terms. The average American cares nothing about your specific ethnic background.

I was walking through Harlem the other day.

A hulking Latino teen exclaimed to his buddy, as I passed the two of them on the street, "Holy , a Ruskie!"

I'm not even Russian...

Cheery anecdotes aside, your college peers are not average Americans...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I am a Homo Sapien which resides in a location called "Europe" on an off-coast landmass called "Britain". This is located on a planet called 'Earth' which orbits a star called 'Sol', which is located in the Milky Way galaxy cluster. I am as European as I am British as I am a Terran as I am Milkywayian.

Nothing more to it, really.

We all know you're atypical though.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I was walking through Harlem the other day.

A hulking Latino teen exclaimed to his buddy, as I passed the two of them on the street, "Holy , a Ruskie!"

I'm not even Russian...

Cheery anecdotes aside, your college peers are not average Americans...

Your anecdotes are not representative of average americans... No one I have worked with cared about ethnic backgrounds, and when I say worked I mean a real job, with real people.

[Montmorency]

Your anecdotes are not representative of average americans... No one I have worked with cared about ethnic backgrounds, and when I say worked I mean a real job, with real people.

But yours are?

I can assure you that people pay quite a bit of attention to ethnicity.

[a completely inoffensive name]

But yours are?

I can assure you that people pay quite a bit of attention to ethnicity.

Not claiming mine are representative just throwing out my experiences since you seemed content in using yours to back a point.

I'm sure people pay attention, but I have doubts that people go the next step in defining others by said ethnicity. But then again, people made a stink about Obama's ethnic background, so perhaps you are right.

[Strike For The South]

I distrust Germans

Is that where I put this answer?

[Kralizec]

A shared cultural/historic heritage is important. Frenchmen have spilled more english blood than they have chinese. And yet, if they do not consider themselves to be in the same boat as the chinese (when the relationship is more or less coloured by indifference), why should they see themselves associated with the english when that relationship has been marked by conflict?

War is a sound basis for intimacy. Of course, after we kill a lot of Chinese I would happily enter a political union with them as well.

...

The 100 years war was more of a dynastic conflict than anything else. "French" troops fought on both sides. Around the same time the low lands were disunited and frequently at war. They're mostly okay with eachother now and are called the Netherlands. Spain, Italy, Romania and others did not exist as single states either.

European nations have a long and turbulent history of dealings with eachother, including but not limited to warfare. I think that people tend to focus on the differences and take the similarities for granted without even noticing them. The shared culture between European countries is greater than that between the various ethnic groups of India.

I've traveled through a decent amount of European countries and in my experience I find it easier to relate to the people there of my age than I do with Dutch people of older generations. Provided that they speak either English or German, because otherwise I can't talk to them- but nowadays most people below the age of 30 do.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

War is a sound basis for intimacy. Of course, after we kill a lot of Chinese I would happily enter a political union with them as well.

...

The 100 years war was more of a dynastic conflict than anything else. "French" troops fought on both sides. Around the same time the low lands were disunited and frequently at war. They're mostly okay with eachother now and are called the Netherlands. Spain, Italy, Romania and others did not exist as single states either.

European nations have a long and turbulent history of dealings with eachother, including but not limited to warfare. I think that people tend to focus on the differences and take the similarities for granted without even noticing them. The shared culture between European countries is greater than that between the various ethnic groups of India.

I've traveled through a decent amount of European countries and in my experience I find it easier to relate to the people there of my age than I do with Dutch people of older generations. Provided that they speak either English or German, because otherwise I can't talk to them- but nowadays most people below the age of 30 do.

Fair enough - but this always looks different from an English perspective, where the Lion has ruled for almost a thousand years - before that we had near 300 years of the Wyvern.

Scandinavia has existed as a region for that long, but no country in mainland Europe is as old.

You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.

[Beskar]

We all know you're atypical though.

Imagine if I was typical. What a world.

You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.

More wars? Doubtful. A war would simply be idiotic and whoever takes part will lose, there cannot be a winner.

[Strike For The South]

Imagine if I was typical. What a world.

This is literally the most smug thing I have ever read

And I read my own posts

[Beskar]

This is literally the most smug thing I have ever read

It is self-deprecating humour. If spoken aloud, it would be "Imagine if I was typical, what a world.." [cue: faux-shiver]

[Kadagar_AV]

Fair enough - but this always looks different from an English perspective, where the Lion has ruled for almost a thousand years - before that we had near 300 years of the Wyvern.

Scandinavia has existed as a region for that long, but no country in mainland Europe is as old.

You pointed to the unity of the Netherlands - which has been achieved after you fought out your differences. From where I'm sitting we've got at least two more wars to come between France, Germany and Britain.

I honestly don't. Why do you think that?

When I see how much interconnection there is between, say, France and England these days, I find it hard to see it possible to drum up the amount of anger and hatred towards the other nation that needed for a war.

You can't wage war without demonizing your enemy. And doing that get's exceedingly hard with today's access to information.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Imagine if I was typical. What a world.



More wars? Doubtful. A war would simply be idiotic and whoever takes part will lose, there cannot be a winner.

I think cue actual shiver running the planet is scarier, but not by much. shiver at this end - the idea of my

I honestly don't. Why do you think that?

When I see how much interconnection there is between, say, France and England these days, I find it hard to see it possible to drum up the amount of anger and hatred towards the other nation that needed for a war.

You can't wage war without demonizing your enemy. And doing that get's exceedingly hard with today's access to information.

I think you'll find that there is always more room for war - nobody thought Germany and Britain would go to war in 1914, the level of interconnectedness made it absurd - but it happened, and it started without demonisation, that came later.

[Fragony]

I don't see a war between nations happening really, massive unrest in the southern countries is pretty much a given though

[gaelic cowboy]

I am a Homo Sapien which resides in a location called "Europe" on an off-coast landmass called "Britain". This is located on a planet called 'Earth' which orbits a star called 'Sol', which is located in the Milky Way galaxy cluster. I am as European as I am British as I am a Terran as I am Milkywayian.

Nothing more to it, really.

I might as well go the whole hog so an put me address down as

Gaelic's House
County Mayo
The Province of Connacht
Ireland
Europe
The Eurasian Supercontinent
Earth
The Orion Cygnus Arm
The Milky Way Galaxy
The Local Group Galaxies
The Virgo Supercluster
The Observable Universe

[Vuk]

It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.

[Kadagar_AV]

It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.

Are you geographically divided by culture and language?

[Vuk]

Are you geographically divided by culture and language?

No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language.
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.

[Kadagar_AV]

No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language.
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.

Are you often making stuff up as you go along, or is this thread somehow special?

I call your conclusions coco as coco puffs.

[Kralizec]

And I read my own posts

This is literally the most smug thing I have ever read.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No, but you Euros don't just identify by culture and language, but also very strongly by race. That is why you are so excepting of spreading your loyalty to a wider Europe, where every nation therein shares a majority white race, but not a common culture or language.
European people in the last century are and have been very prone to racial indentification.

Um, no. The idea of a "white" race is an American invention - an attempt to cling onto an identity which was divisible, rather than sharing one with black people. Europeans picked up race-theory from the Americans.

In Europe "white" is not a race - Germanic is, Anglo-Saxon is, Gallic is, Italian is, Iberian is, Celtic is, Gaelic is, I'm sure I've missed some.

Ah, yes, Slavic, Nordic and Basque... probably more.

You'd call us all "white" except for the Iberians who you'd call "Latino", but we can tell the difference between each other - as noted in the thread where we Anglo-Saxons tried to defend our womenfolk.

This is literally the most smug thing I have ever read.

Nah... it makes sense if you've read his posts on reading posts, like I have.

Got your back bro.

[HoreTore]

It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.

I am.... Baffled.

And kinda amazed at how you linked "identity" with "race". No need for me to explain it though, pvc did the job well.

[Strike For The South]

It sounds to me like a take on traditional, racist European Nationalism that has expanded to include as many people of European descent as possible. Sounds like more racism to me.
You Euros really gotta come over to my side of the pond and see how much better it can be. Sure, we got our racists, but the majority of people here do not strongly identify with a racial heritage like you Euros do.

Most of America still identifes strongly with the hyphen

[Vuk]

Um, no. The idea of a "white" race is an American invention - an attempt to cling onto an identity which was divisible, rather than sharing one with black people. Europeans picked up race-theory from the Americans.

In Europe "white" is not a race - Germanic is, Anglo-Saxon is, Gallic is, Italian is, Iberian is, Celtic is, Gaelic is, I'm sure I've missed some.

Ah, yes, Slavic, Nordic and Basque... probably more.

You'd call us all "white" except for the Iberians who you'd call "Latino", but we can tell the difference between each other - as noted in the thread where we Anglo-Saxons tried to defend our womenfolk.



Nah... it makes sense if you've read his posts on reading posts, like I have.

Got your back bro.

Traditionally they have claimed that the people of each separate nation are superior to the rest, but what do you think this embrace of a wider Europe is? It is simply expanding their concept of a 'pure race' to fit all Europeans. Europeans don't share a common language or culture, so what else is there that links them aside from geography? Say what you will, but that's what it looks like to me.

[Kadagar_AV]

Traditionally they have claimed that the people of each separate nation are superior to the rest, but what do you think this embrace of a wider Europe is? It is simply expanding their concept of a 'pure race' to fit all Europeans. Europeans don't share a common language or culture, so what else is there that links them aside from geography? Say what you will, but that's what it looks like to me.

Pretty much every nation claim superiority. What confuse you is that European countries have the ability to claim ethnological superiority, whereas USA can only link their viewed superiority to politics.

This however have absolutely NOTHING to do with a white / non white thing. As a Swedish guy, I see myself having more in common with a guy from Spain (who I perceive as brownish), than an Ukranian, eventhough the Ukranian is way more white.

As to Language, western Europe do share one. Latin, it has set its trace in all the western European languages so they are closely modeled. Learning, say, Spanish is a breeze compared to Russian, as Russian has a whole other language base.

Western Europe also very much have a shared culture, although sometimes on opposing sides in the shared history.

Sorry, but quite often your posts comes off as you sprouting nonsense You made up on a whim, with little or no facts or experience of what you discuss. These last posts were no exception.

[HoreTore]

Traditionally they have claimed that the people of each separate nation are superior to the rest, but what do you think this embrace of a wider Europe is? It is simply expanding their concept of a 'pure race' to fit all Europeans. Europeans don't share a common language or culture, so what else is there that links them aside from geography? Say what you will, but that's what it looks like to me.

In essence:

Those who identify with a European identity(like Barth Eide), will claim that we most certainly do have a common European culture. It is that culture theyidentify with.

Those who do not identify with a European identity typically do not believe in a common European culture.

My own culture, Norwegian, is definitely strongly linked with mainland Europe. Norway was under a union for 400 years until the 19th century. At the end, people started thinking about independence. In order to be independent, they would have to create both a state and a nation. How did they build the nation? They travelled and learned from other Europeans. Bjørnson, Grieg, Ibsen, Munch, Tidemann, etc, they all travelled to Germany, France and Italy. The Norwegian nation, and the foundations of modern Norwegian culture, was built on strong influences from Vienna, Frankfurt, Paris and Tuscany. Our art, our laws, our customs and our books - none of it is different from the rest of the continent in any meaningful way.

[Fragony]

It isn't that we eurorealists don't agree on a common European culture, we just don't believe in the post-nationalist superstate that europhiles want the EU to be.

[SoFarSoGood]

Gaelic's House
County Mayo
The Province of Connacht
Ireland
Europe
The Eurasian Supercontinent
Earth
The Orion Cygnus Arm
The Milky Way Galaxy
The Local Group Galaxies
The Virgo Supercluster
The Observable Universe

Which kind of asks the question that since IF there are aliens out there, since we are all from the 'The Observable Universe' are we not all the same? Where do you draw the line between us and them?