Crusader Kings II

[rickinator9]

How can Muslims take over entire De Jure Kingdoms (I saw this discussed a number of times).

You need 500 piety if I remember correctly. Just grab some mosques for a couple of years and farm that piety.

So, 2 DLC will be released next month. One is the EUIV converter that you get by preordering. The other is "a Legacy sized DLC" but still unannounced. I wonder what it will be.
This all came from last night's stream. They also said that they have plans for 8 more DLC, so if we keep paying, they will keep making them!

[Greyblades]

My god the vikings are overpowered in The Old Gods. Wessex is screwed, it's soldiers cant stand up to viking troops on even footing, the vikings have doomstacks apparantly coming out of nowhere, and any allies of worth in france or germany cant get to the vikings because they dont have boats, it's just a long slow death of being picked apart piece by piece, Alfred the Great or no.

[Myth]

What? Wessex can be stomped early on if one of the two Danish dukes goes on a prepared invasion AND Jorvik joins as well. Otherwise you will win a war of attrition. Once one of the Karlings secures dominance in Catholic europe and Holy Wars start flying their way, the Norse run out of steam pretty quick. Also, with the nerfing of the pagan Subjugation CB to once per life, and the AI's inability to play well under Gavelkind succession, you only have to survive the initial onslaught IMO.

[Greyblades]

At first I thought that was a good thing, giving me time to build up, but without my help the Vikings quickly took over everyone but me, and it was touch-and-go until around the year 1000 when I finally managed to form the Kingdom of England.

That's kinda what happened to me, I send my troops to help my allies, they get massacred no matter what I do and my allies surrender so I'm stuck there getting bits picked off me whenever the vikings get bored and send thier 10K stack 'O doom to take one of my counties. Best case scenario is that the French finally get some ships and send thier own death stacks against the vikings. I guess I dont know how to win wars with lesser armies.

[Greyblades]

Well, there are a few things you can do to boost your chances. The first is to do all your fighting in good terrain, like a defensive battle in mountains or hills or something. Its hard to pull off in England, but it you're using fleets to move your forces around you can be much more picky.

They have 2 10K stacks, I had 2K, my allies keep getting killed off with or without me, no bonuses in the world can save the starting war and failure gives the vikings north of england. Also, no ships.

Secondly, marry off your daughters to get alliances with European powers. Yes, you're opening yourself up to claim wars down the road, but you're also potentially saving your ass from the Vikings.

No decent european allies (the Frances) have ships or refuse to use them so they cant/wont get troops to the british isles or scandinavia.

Lastly, some time around the year 950 I think conversion becomes a lot easier (I don't know why this is a hidden mechanic, but its just not even worth trying before 950, or at least I think that's the date). It might cause a lot of your chaplains to die, and there are other downsides to converting your norse neighbors (like no more Holy War CB), but it seriously reduces their aggression and can also sometimes cause awesome implosions as a Christian king has to fight all his Norse subjects for a few decades.

Didnt have to worry about religion because the main viking faction converted to christianity to get out of a holy war with france (50 years in, france finally got some ships, wasnt in time to save any christian nations north of oxford but I took what I could get).

[rickinator9]

The Duke of Wessex is a great start because you are independent and strong enough to be upwardly mobile. Not as easy as a Norse start, but not too hard. Currently this one is on hold while I take a break from the world's most intensive game of vassal whack-a-mole. Wish EU4 was out already.

I fear you haven't truly experienced vassal whack-a-mole yet. In the El-Cid succession game(we should do one again some time!) I was given hold of an empire that stretched from Greece to Spain and from Sicily to Norway. It was huge and had a lot of king vassals. There were these 2 isolated vassal duchies in northern Russia. They were so far away from the capital in Spain that they would always revolt unless you imprisoned them.

It was no surprise that the empire went splat when Monk took over after 1.07 and factions hit.

[Myth]

My experience with the Old Gods start in western Europe:

Fairhair gradually eats up all of the counties that make up De Jure Norway, thus tying up most of the Norwegian vikings with infighting.

Sweden is formed first but generally keeps out of raiding and messing with the christians, instead trying to make trouble for it's pagan neighbors and usually failing hard after the first Swedish king kicks the bucket and his idiot 11 year old takes over.

If I'm playing as one of the two Danish duchies I am asked to set up a prepared invasion (sons of Lodbrok) versus either Scotland or one of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. Wessex is always the choice as it's the strongest. If I'm not the Danish, the AI doesn't always do the prepared invasion IMO. Still, sometimes that invasion is a stomp, but sometimes Wessex eats vikings for breakfast. It's important to note that the actual Viking levies are inferior and only the free troops they get prior to the invasion (and the free 120 ships) are what matters. But the Ai had managed to hold me off once or twice simply by diligently re-raising it's levies, and also enlisting the help of the Welsh duchies. Seriously, if Wales comes up and if for some reason Jorvik is tied up or Thor forbid - losing against Scotland, the prepared invasion will run out of steam before Wessex falls.

Meanwhile the Karlings do a lot of infighting. Usually France, Lotharingia or East Francia blob up, while Aquitaine, Italy and Bavaria are eaten. If a Karling forms Francia or the HRE it's basically game over for the Danes.

On the eastern front, Tengri gets reformed fast. Way, wayy too fast. Either the Cumans or one of the other pagan eastern factions gets enough holy sites and reforms. After that it's pretty easy for them to gobble up other pagans with Holy Wars.

[Monk]

I fear you haven't truly experienced vassal whack-a-mole yet. In the El-Cid succession game(we should do one again some time!) I was given hold of an empire that stretched from Greece to Spain and from Sicily to Norway. It was huge and had a lot of king vassals. There were these 2 isolated vassal duchies in northern Russia. They were so far away from the capital in Spain that they would always revolt unless you imprisoned them.

It was no surprise that the empire went splat when Monk took over after 1.07 and factions hit.

Factions were the end of that grand empire. I hit unpause and half the empire rose up in rebellion within a few months. I couldn't have said "nope" fast enough

I am game for another succession game when you guys are, though.

[rickinator9]

I am game for another succession game when you guys are, though.

I totally am. Perhaps we should start after the mystery august DLC hits so we won't have save-game incompatibility.

[Myth]

Count me in. (no pun intended. well maybe some pun intended)

BTW i find it really annoying that as East Francia (i'm totally kicking butts and taking names in this game) I can't form the HRE because I don't have dutch culture... Since when does the great great grandson of Charlemagne, a true blooded Karling, need dutch blood to reform the HRE?

[Arjos]

I'm game for a succession too ^^

[Visor]

I'm down. Think I have the same version.

[rickinator9]

BTW i find it really annoying that as East Francia (i'm totally kicking butts and taking names in this game) I can't form the HRE because I don't have dutch culture... Since when does the great great grandson of Charlemagne, a true blooded Karling, need dutch blood to reform the HRE?

Dutch culture? I'm not sure if that is correct, since the HRE was mostly a german empire.

[Myth]

I need the Kingdom of Frisia to exist so I can form the empire, but that Kindom requires Dutch culture to be created. I had the necessary counties 200 years ago... And now two of the Flanders counties are already German culture because I've set my capital there. Don't know what to do, I need an Imperial title to get the pope as a vassal

[Chaotix]

I need the Kingdom of Frisia to exist so I can form the empire, but that Kindom requires Dutch culture to be created. I had the necessary counties 200 years ago... And now two of the Flanders counties are already German culture because I've set my capital there. Don't know what to do, I need an Imperial title to get the pope as a vassal

It looks to me like you just need at least 80% of the de jure territory and 2 Kingdom titles. Are you playing vanilla CK2 or a mod? Why not just create another kingdom besides Frisia? Bavaria or Lotharingia should work; I'm pretty sure as long as you have the territory even an outside kingdom like Pomerania or Burgundy would be fine.

Anyway, if for some reason I am wrong and you can't get the HRE without Frisia, the easiest way I envision to do it would be this: Find a Dutch guy in your realm. There's gotta be at least one somewhere. Give him all the duchies of Frisia and grant him independence. Make sure the titles are Primogeniture so they don't get split up. Given enough time, he will create Frisia on his own. Then you can fabricate claims or otherwise conquer back enough of the territory until you are able to usurp the Kingdom.

[rickinator9]

New Dev diary

[Chaotix]

Nice.

This is actually a welcome addition, although all things that I had just sort of resigned myself into accepting previously.

Auto-end plots and invite to plot are fantastic, and the changing title names above count level is great as well.

Paradox can't take my money fast enough.

[Myth]

It looks to me like you just need at least 80% of the de jure territory and 2 Kingdom titles. Are you playing vanilla CK2 or a mod? Why not just create another kingdom besides Frisia? Bavaria or Lotharingia should work; I'm pretty sure as long as you have the territory even an outside kingdom like Pomerania or Burgundy would be fine.

Anyway, if for some reason I am wrong and you can't get the HRE without Frisia, the easiest way I envision to do it would be this: Find a Dutch guy in your realm. There's gotta be at least one somewhere. Give him all the duchies of Frisia and grant him independence. Make sure the titles are Primogeniture so they don't get split up. Given enough time, he will create Frisia on his own. Then you can fabricate claims or otherwise conquer back enough of the territory until you are able to usurp the Kingdom.

Oh I feel dumb now. It was the 80% thing. Since i saw that last Kingdom title I didn't own was red I automatically assumed that was the issue. Well i have to say this has been my largest and also most stable empire to date. The Pope is my vassal so I can curb any faction I have to. I'm about to go on Absolute CA level and then right into primogeniture. Life is good. Oh, and I plan to wage Holy War versus that Arabian empire blob and get Constantinople for myself.

[Monk]

New Dev diary

Impressive. Combined with the converter the ability to mod title names on the fly is gonna make a lot of people happy. Time to form the Kingdom of Pomerania Prussia.

[Myth]

First major reason - no vassal infighting. It's great if you want to change succession laws unopposed. Fighting vassals also waste leveis I'd rather have for myself. Even having a 55k doomstack now I still want more troops.

Second - Absolute power grants you insane levies. 40% IIRC. Combiend with high feudal leveis I get a lot of men out of each castle I construct even if i'm not the direct liege.

Third - roleplaying reasons and historical reasons. The HRE and ERE suffered from a lot of infighting and were weak when centralized power was under-powered. OTOH historically when the crown had strong centralized power the nation tended to achieve great things.

Sure the vassals hate it, but if it's not that then they'll hate something else. Soooner or later i'll have several Ambitious or Envious Dukes pop up. That's why I'll try to use the Pope and assassinations to keep the dukes down. Actually i'm tempted to destroy ducal and kingdom titles after i get to Primo but it feels gimmicky to me. I can't wait for 1190 so the Pope can call a Crusade on that green blob and I can take the KOJ for myself. BTW I just won an Invasion of Hungary. All the remaining Catholics like me pretty well (France, Lotharingia and Aquitaine are my kinsmen anyway). I had to use 2 or 3 full stacks but the muslims ran out of steam before I did. Can't wait to curbstomp the levant with the blessing by His Holiness.

[rvg]

Is there ever any practical reason to go max CA? I like to think each of the crown authority options has a purpose, but it seems like you never really want to higher than "High" unless you want to convert a unified HRE into EU4.

Depends on the nation. With ERE or a muslim faction there's basically no reason to go above Medium CA. With free duke level revocations ERE can be held together even by an inbred underage dwarf. With a catholic faction higher levels of CA make a lot more sense.

[rvg]

Max CA goes VERY well with minimal levies because it supersedes them.

[Myth]

Max CA goes VERY well with minimal levies because it supersedes them.

You mean to say that levy laws don't stack with CA laws?

[rvg]

You mean to say that levy laws don't stack with CA laws?

What I mean is that a levy size cannot drop below the minimum specified by the CA.

[Chaotix]

I mean specifically the maximum level. High CA makes a lot of sense because it allows primogeniture and it stops titles from leaving the realm through vassals making dumb marriages with foreigners. All Max CA does is prevent your vassals from declaring war on foreigners, which is something with incredibly limited value considering the massive opinion penalty that it comes with. Vassals are already prevented from fighting eachother within your realm by earlier CA levels. So why would you ever use maximum CA, from a min/maxing perspective? There must be a specific situation.

To be more specific, Max CA prevents vassals from declaring war at all, unless it's to rebel against you.

With Medium/High crown authority, they are prevented from declaring war on other de jure vassals. But if you have territory in say, England and Scotland, and as the King of England your Scottish territory has not de jure drifted yet, then a vassal from England can declare war on a vassal from Scotland, and vice versa, even under Medium CA.

In a huge empire where you are likely to have non-de jure vassals, Max CA will prevent even those pesky inter-de jure wars that you normally can't stop.

That said, I almost never use High or Max CA because I don't want to let my vassals acquire Primogeniture, since it allows them to inherit and build up super-duchies. I usually have High CA for one generation if I want Primo for myself (although half the time I go with Elective instead), and then switch back to Medium in the next generation.

[Monk]

Back off because I've got no shame whatsoever!

[Chaotix]

Back off because I've got no shame whatsoever!

Damn right you don't. A link to the AAR and not even the first update yet?

Get on with it already, those thousand years aren't going to play themselves!

[rickinator9]

So about that succession game, does anybody have some suggestions for people we should play as?

I want to nominate Raynald de Châtillon.

[Chaotix]

You could also try Michael, Doux of Epirus in the Latin Empire start.

It's a very tough game if you start at the Latin Empire bookmark, akin to Antioch or El Cid. It's a bit easier if you start about 20 years later once the Latin Empire breaks up into micro-states, but still rather difficult as you have to contend with whoever wins out over the Byzantines or the Seljuks.

I've been playing a game as them myself. About a hundred years in and have formed the Kingdom of Greece. Maybe I'll put up a screenshot later today.

[Hooahguy]

Just started a new game as a Norse pagan. Absolutely loving the raid feature, I love seeing a foreign province turn from green to a dull red economically. Any other tips when it comes to playing as Norsemen? Right now Im trying to take over Norway, though I seem to have lost the "conquest of Norway" casus belli that I had before I took over my first province.