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Thread: Can the government compel you to provide someone a service against your will?

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    Default Re: Can the government compel you to provide someone a service against your will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Panzer, my problem with what you are saying is that this divorcement of the act from the attraction is somewhat novel (at least in those cases where it serves no purpose beyond pleasure), and indeed seems to change the goalposts with what we understand by sexuality - and all this because a cursory glance at sexuality in past societies challenges your position.
    How do your examples challenge my position? The gap that often exists between attraction and the sexual relationships in which we choose to engage is well documented and what I would think to be common knowledge. Western history is replete with men who have conformed to the social norm of a consenting, monogamous, heterosexual relationship with a woman within the same age cohort and race/ethnicity that results in children who have also pursued sexual interactions that deviate from that norm in private. Most people will conform to social norms regarding sexuality in public, but private sexual practices can vary dramatically based on attractions that are inherent to the individual.

    I think it is difficult for straight people who fit neatly into the current social norm to understand how wrapped up sexuality is in social standing and the public self. Even in today's vastly more tolerant society, there is still incredible pressure to conform to the current norm in many families, social groups, workplaces and in society in general. And yet, inherent attraction is so strong that people act on it in the face of that pressure.

    Consider my example of ancient Sparta, or modern Afghanistan/Central Asia, or the Ottoman Empire - while you assert that certain constraints might lead to people acting against basic predispositions; in all these examples, no such constraints exists - rather, homosexuality is something pursued in addition to heterosexual relationships. And, indeed, it occurs on such a scale relative to other societies, that we must conclude that society is what is conditioning these people to seek such relationships. Unless, of course, you were to argue that certain population groups had a genetic predisposition towards such behaviour - but I find that highly unlikely (although I would of course consider any evidence presented). Finally, in all these examples, attraction was central to the desire for the act, since it was entirely voluntary and served no purpose but pleasure, at least on the part of one partner.
    Your line of reasoning is a bit murky, but it appears to rest on the above quote in bold. Can you support that with any actual data? I am not sure how one could make any points about the scale of comparative sexual practices in Sparta, for example, that are not firmly based in anecdote.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 09-06-2013 at 05:13.

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