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  1. #1

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Ḫamīsum (Khamis) aka Sabean Professionals finished - j0ker
    Pics. Now.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Please?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum View Post
    Pics. Now.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Please?
    From this too ;)
    Applying armour to the Elephantes Kataphraktoi Indikoi - j0ker



  3. #3

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Conepting Gaisokorios Iuernon (Goidelic regulars) - Brennus
    Regulars? Is Brennus implying a standing, professional army?

  4. #4
    Uergobretos Senior Member Brennus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Just a placeholder name.



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  5. #5

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    What are they exactly?

  6. #6
    Uergobretos Senior Member Brennus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    In this case they are swordsmen (we will need to change the name as gais denotes spears). We have a lack of information for the Irish Iron Age compared with Britain and parts of continental Europe, therefore reconstructing the social situation within Ireland is very difficult. It is very hard to say what sort of social systems were used by the Iron Age Irish (hierachy, eglalitarian society etc). A recent study has found that there is a marked difference in the distribution of certain types of objects and different types of objects tend to be deposited in different locations. For example swords tend to be found in north and east Ulster and southern Leinster, but there are a lack of spears in this region. Likewise weapons tend to be deposited mainly in rivers. It may be then that rather than denoting separate classes of warrior, these weapons denoted social identities; the weapon you carried indicated the social group you belonged to rather than being a gradation of warrior.



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  7. #7

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    Would the weapon-identity system apply to all sectors of society? Did all Iron Age Irish carry weapons or just a warrior elite?

  8. #8
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum View Post
    Pics. Now.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Please?
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	11210
    (thumbnail, click to see full size)

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thank you very much! They look great! Nasty professional archer-spearmen, akin to the persian immortals of old! I´m quite curious about how saba will turn out in EB2, I had some nice fun with them in EB1 due to their unique playing style but it seems that EB2 its going even further, no native cavalry and lots of crazy archer spearmen! Seems deliciously insane I wonder how balanced they will be compared to other factions (though I gess it would make sense if they are very dependent on mercs and regionals if the player decides to go expantionist out of arabia).

    Btw, when did arabs became so proeficient with swords as they will be in islamic times (I´m thinking about Broken Crescent´s Immanate of Oman for example)? I suppose that later than the EB timeframe?

    Finish new chariot models and animations. ~Tux
    Yay, chariots, I love chariots! Also curious about how they will play in EB2, the only experience that I have with chariots in M2TW is with the Sundering mod where realism isnt properly the main focus :P

    Time to start on a true monster of a government; the Getae. It's BIG - Haithabas
    Never been much of a fan of the Getai but I´m quite interested to see what will come out of this.

    Sorry to see you go, but a big thanks to Ulises and Asturian for all the help in researching the Arevaci these past months - Brennu
    Thank you for contributing to EB! Or should I say Muchas Gracias?
    Last edited by LusitanianWolf; 11-07-2013 at 00:44.



  10. #10
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    How are you piecing together the Dacian government? I don't think there is much evidence exists of how it worked and what exists no one can read.
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  11. #11
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LusitanianWolf View Post
    Thank you very much! They look great! Nasty professional archer-spearmen, akin to the persian immortals of old! I´m quite curious about how saba will turn out in EB2, I had some nice fun with them in EB1 due to their unique playing style but it seems that EB2 its going even further, no native cavalry and lots of crazy archer spearmen! Seems deliciously insane I wonder how balanced they will be compared to other factions (though I gess it would make sense if they are very dependent on mercs and regionals if the player decides to go expantionist out of arabia).

    Btw, when did arabs became so proeficient with swords as they will be in islamic times (I´m thinking about Broken Crescent´s Immanate of Oman for example)? I suppose that later than the EB timeframe?
    There are some depictions of swords from ancient Yemen, but they appear to have been rare, though appear of high quality. However it is indeed Oman were most finds of swords have been made. These include medium and shorter swords, especially in older times, but also seem to have been influenced much by the persians and later especially the parthians/sassanids. By the later stage of our time period longswords weren't uncommon at sites such as Ed-dur and Mleiha. Phillip the Arab, the Roman emperor, has been depicted wearing a typical Arabian longsword, in which the hilt is angled. The latter thing seemed to have possibly also spread towards the West South Arabian cultures. The latter, especially the Hadramawt seemed to have been under great Indian influence as well.

    The Sabaean Bodyguards will feature longswords. But as the spear seems to have been the most common weapon we chose it for both Khamis, of which dipictions mainly feature the spear and bow, and for the nobles unit. The Sabaeans did use mercenaries. Records show both recruitment from more northern and bedouin tribes and ethiopian tribes from across the sea. There is even evidence for a small standing and professional army of trained bedouins that was garrisoned at Maryab. Obviously we'll try to feature all these elements in future versions of EB. They will lack factional cavalry or camelry. But obviously they will be able to recruit those from their nomadic neighbours. We also have planned a special cavalry unit in the future to be recruited at Mleiha. One that shows hellenistic and Persian influence.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    (...)
    The Sabaean Bodyguards will feature longswords. But as the spear seems to have been the most common weapon we chose it for both Khamis, of which dipictions mainly feature the spear and bow, and for the nobles unit(...)
    Thank you for your extensive reply Moros! Its allways great to learn more! As expected Saba will be very interesting to play indeed (but I bet that can be said of all factions, at least on later releases). I'm quite happy to know that the Saba are going to have a different Bodyguard unit cause I though the Nobles were going to fill that role, but It allways great to know that they are going to have one more different elite (and certainly impressive looking) unit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum
    That's a bit strange. I expected some turbans. Is that just a fluke or has the unit's armour been upgraded? (Or maybe it's a reformed unit?)

    And the unit cards seem reflected over the y axis.
    I think you may be confusing them (the khamis, professional soldiers) with the nobles who were in the Arabia preview and are also archer-spearmen but with scale mail and some have red turbans. Awesome unit!
    And I gess that one of the unit cards is a placeolder.


    Meaningwhile, more great news!
    A big thank you once again to sirtim for producing yet another fine Iberian province description: Carpetania - Brennus
    Arevaci industry complex description finished. Governments aside, ALL the building descriptions for ALL the Celts are done! - Brennus
    Thank you to Florianus for his art work depicting Gallic Argoi!
    New, improved ponies for the British chariots and drivers depicted as Caesar described in De Bello Gallico - Tux
    After much frustration, a breakthrough with settlements! In addition to Nomadic and Barbarian we now have our first Greek houses - Kull
    Working to overcome technical problems. Siege battles and siege engines working for more settlements - V.T. Marvin
    Discussing options for a unique Celtiberian government system with V.T. Marvin - Brennus
    Last edited by LusitanianWolf; 11-10-2013 at 22:48.



  13. #13

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LusitanianWolf View Post
    And I gess that one of the unit cards is a placeolder.
    Both of them, in fact. They each have red turbans. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with two very similar units for the same faction though. It seems like a waste of a slot. Perhaps if the nobles carried swords instead of spears, it would be worth it.

    Is there any evidence to support a sword-armed unit? I know swords are status weapons in most societies, pre-Islamic Arabia included.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum View Post
    Both of them, in fact. They each have red turbans. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with two very similar units for the same faction though. It seems like a waste of a slot. Perhaps if the nobles carried swords instead of spears, it would be worth it.
    Then by the same reasoning all the hellenistic factions should have only one phalangitai unit, the steppe faction should only get one horse archer unit the romans should only get one gladius and scutum heavy infantry unit (no reforms, waste of slots), and the non hellenistic european factions should all get the same spear unit called "Barbarian Warband" since they are all a bunch of haf-naked crazies. Seems genious and then we would have free slots for Burning Pigs, Arcanii and Rocket launching Velociraptors.
    Last edited by LusitanianWolf; 11-11-2013 at 00:29.



  15. #15
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum View Post
    Both of them, in fact. They each have red turbans. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with two very similar units for the same faction though. It seems like a waste of a slot. Perhaps if the nobles carried swords instead of spears, it would be worth it.

    Is there any evidence to support a sword-armed unit? I know swords are status weapons in most societies, pre-Islamic Arabia included.
    The Khamis wear leather/padded armour, simple conicle helmets, bows and small to medium round shields (early period)
    The Bodyguards and Nobles wear much more fancy clothes and helmets, about half wear scale armour. Bodyguards have longswords and bows, nobles bows and spears. Then there are simply archers (representing the tribal levies) and light spearmen (representing the Sabaean shab specific militia). Those are the main factional units at the moment. Though Ethiopians and some nomadic units are already in as well, which significantly diversifies their armies.

    Units that top the list for the Sabaeans for the future include nomadic infantry (light archer spearmen and axemen) and trained bedouins (medium axemen, possibly with javelins). Adding camelry and later also other more exotic Arabian units (such as persian-Hellenistic-Arabian lancers, East Arabian swordsmen, Hadramawt nobles, highland warriors,...). Possibly we'll have a late khamis unit as well. These should differ quite a bit from the current ones (medium swords and oblong shields are possible).

    At this point only a small selection of units could be made. The most representative ones and important ones from every branch were chosen. Spear and bow were the gladius and pila of the Sabaean army, the Khamis their legionnaires.

    a comparison:
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    (And yes the unit card for the Khamis is a placeholder at this instant)

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
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    That's a bit strange. I expected some turbans. Is that just a fluke or has the unit's armour been upgraded? (Or maybe it's a reformed unit?)

    And the unit cards seem reflected over the y axis.

    They will lack factional cavalry or camelry. But obviously they will be able to recruit those from their nomadic neighbours.
    Do you mean as mercenaries? From what I've read, the Sabeans were heavily dependent on tribal levies. If the only light, desert troops available are mercenaries, the cost may prohibit heavy recruitment.
    Last edited by Rex Somnorum; 11-09-2013 at 01:25.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Presumably you can recruit from the MIC building of provinces which have a nomadic populace rather than the settled Sabaeans.

  18. #18
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Twitter discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Somnorum View Post
    That's a bit strange. I expected some turbans. Is that just a fluke or has the unit's armour been upgraded? (Or maybe it's a reformed unit?)

    And the unit cards seem reflected over the y axis.



    Do you mean as mercenaries? From what I've read, the Sabeans were heavily dependent on tribal levies. If the only light, desert troops available are mercenaries, the cost may prohibit heavy recruitment.
    Tribal levies were a part of Sabaean armies, certainly. But most of these tribes (which is technically not the correct term) were not nomadic. People forget that the Sayhad cultures, were not nomadic but sedentary and agricultural. Not at all "desert people".

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