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Thread: Don Sterling...
Yup, banz0red for life.
Next step: instituting punishments for thought crimes and sense offenses.
P.S. America, wtf have you done to yourself?
Next step: instituting punishments for thought crimes and sense offenses.
P.S. America, wtf have you done to yourself?
Because we should really tolerate racism.
I thought corporations always got it right!
Originally Posted by rvg:
Yup, banz0red for life.
Next step: instituting punishments for thought crimes and sense offenses.
P.S. America, wtf have you done to yourself?
hey! at least in America old farts get hot girlfriends!Yup, banz0red for life.
Next step: instituting punishments for thought crimes and sense offenses.
P.S. America, wtf have you done to yourself?
re: the ban and fine - he and the NBA are private institutions and can regulate themselves as they see fit.
So his cabal decided to kick him out
YOUR FIRST AMENDEMENT RIGHTS DO NOT PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR ASSOCIATION
THIS IS A VERY A SIMPLE CONCEPT
PLEASE INTERNALIZE IT
YOUR FIRST AMENDEMENT RIGHTS DO NOT PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR ASSOCIATION
THIS IS A VERY A SIMPLE CONCEPT
PLEASE INTERNALIZE IT
Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
So his cabal decided to kick him out
YOUR FIRST AMENDEMENT RIGHTS DO NOT PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR ASSOCIATION
THIS IS A VERY A SIMPLE CONCEPT
PLEASE INTERNALIZE IT
Except nobody here is raging against the government - what is happening here is a social trend where people who do not hold to mainstream views are being excluded from society.So his cabal decided to kick him out
YOUR FIRST AMENDEMENT RIGHTS DO NOT PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR ASSOCIATION
THIS IS A VERY A SIMPLE CONCEPT
PLEASE INTERNALIZE IT
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to shed any tears for this Sterling fellow because he is obviously a prat and he has it good enough anyway. In this particular case I actually support the measures taken by the NBA because it is a sporting organisation and Mr. Sterling is not an employer or employee.
But aside from the argument on legal rights, I do think that this tendency to completely demonise and marginalise people for holding to beliefs that were pretty much the norm well within people's lifetimes is pretty stupid.
Yeah, he's really getting punished. Paid $12.5 million for the team in '81, mismanaged them as league's laughingstock franchise for 30 years, and now will be "forced" to sell for close to $1 billion. I'm sure he'll manage somehow...
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Because we should really tolerate racism.
Yes - you must be tolerant of racism if you disagree with the NBA's handling and the media's coverage of this event Because we should really tolerate racism.
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Because we should really tolerate racism.
Yes, you really should.Because we should really tolerate racism.
Democracy, you know.
You might not support their view, but you should be willing to die for their right to state it. You propose a more updated version of democracy? If so, why?
A lot of appeals to democracy are inherently anti racist:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
The day when a man cannot say whatever the hell he wants in the privacy of his own goddamn bedroom is indeed a sad day. Not for him, he's loaded, he won't care either way. For the rest of us. The conformity nazis have struck again, yet the sheep are clamoring for more.
Gah.
Gah.
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
A lot of appeals to democracy are inherently anti racist:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
All men created equal: Sure. A lot of appeals to democracy are inherently anti racist:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
All men have the same intellectual capacity: A big no-no.
All men have the same physical capacity: A big no-no.
I think they meant it in a methodological way - no? I for one am not on par with, say, Zlatan, nor Messi or Ronaldo - when it comes to soccer.
What I mean with that is that physically handicapped children obviously have the same rights to reach their physical limits when, say, going to school and having PE class...
Retarded children don't have the same rights to go for A-grades (in fact it would be horrible to expect it of them, or judge them by it!!). They DO however still have the right to reach THEIR full capacity, just like any other child.
It is not saying that anyone is as good as any other. They just have the right to reach THEIR limit, they are not however in their right to get an Olympic medal. Nor the Nobel Prize.
As to how the dice are rolled in what sub groups of humanitys DNA code... It's either the will of some God, if you are into that.
Alternatively a matter of science.
Democracy should not shut science up - for the well being of you know... Society?
*not to mention science at large*
Originally Posted by :
The day when a man cannot say whatever the hell he wants in the privacy of his own goddamn bedroom is indeed a sad day. Not for him, he's loaded, he won't care either way. For the rest of us. The conformity nazis have struck again, yet the sheep are clamoring for more.
Yes the privacy of his goddamn bedroom, while on the phone to another person.The day when a man cannot say whatever the hell he wants in the privacy of his own goddamn bedroom is indeed a sad day. Not for him, he's loaded, he won't care either way. For the rest of us. The conformity nazis have struck again, yet the sheep are clamoring for more.
Personally I would be more concerned exactly how the audio was recorded. If it was the person on the other end who recorded it, for whatever end, then Sterling's an idiot witha bad sense of who to trust. If his phone line was being tapped by someone other than the two people, that's illegal and an invasion of privacy. Either way Sterling's still an idiot.
Equal rights =/= equal outcome
Racism is not a right, nor is it protected by democratic ideals. It is thoroughly disputed with the ideas that 1 person 1 vote, right to pursue happiness (not pleasure), that the rights are regardless of race or creed.
So an appeal to democracy to protect the rights of a bigot are not there. Freedom of speech is not freedom of responsibility.
Racism is not a right, nor is it protected by democratic ideals. It is thoroughly disputed with the ideas that 1 person 1 vote, right to pursue happiness (not pleasure), that the rights are regardless of race or creed.
So an appeal to democracy to protect the rights of a bigot are not there. Freedom of speech is not freedom of responsibility.
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
Equal rights =/= equal outcome
Racism is not a right, nor is it protected by democratic ideals. It is thoroughly disputed with the ideas that 1 person 1 vote, right to pursue happiness (not pleasure), that the rights are regardless of race or creed.
So an appeal to democracy to protect the rights of a bigot are not there. Freedom of speech is not freedom of responsibility.
So if science deem, say, whites to be sub-par compared to blacks when it comes to running... The whites should have an equal opportunity to get running medals?Equal rights =/= equal outcome
Racism is not a right, nor is it protected by democratic ideals. It is thoroughly disputed with the ideas that 1 person 1 vote, right to pursue happiness (not pleasure), that the rights are regardless of race or creed.
So an appeal to democracy to protect the rights of a bigot are not there. Freedom of speech is not freedom of responsibility.
As to the bolded part... Can one be racist if one can show that black people in fact seem to run faster compared to whites? I don't see the "responsibility" problem there?
Is it OK to be racist, as long as you point to scientific data?
For me, personally, it would be the utmost logical brain leap to think the human races have developed identically, given evolution and the different conditions we have had.
Just like we changed colour of skin, logic dictates that our brains might not exactly have gone in the identical same direction, no?
In another racist incident involving football (or soccer to Americans).
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
Just like we changed colour of skin
Technically that is not true. Just like we changed colour of skin
You might have not realised this, but 'white' people are not white (Albino-ism kind of is due to lack of melanin, but thats different and affects 'black' people too). When we go in contact with the sun, the body produces more melanin which is already existing, which makes us darker. Due to being resident in a far more sunnier place, peoples skin contain far more melanin than a place with a lot less sun. There is a slight gene variation on the initial concentrations.
In terms of genetic variation, the difference is a joke. The only real difference is in the mind of people socially programmed as racists.
Edit: On another note, according to some comments in thread, this person shouldn't exist.
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
you should be willing to die for their right to state it
What if I'm not?you should be willing to die for their right to state it
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
So if science deem, say, whites to be sub-par compared to blacks when it comes to running... The whites should have an equal opportunity to get running medals?
I started off with equal opportunity does not equal outcome. White guy can compete but it does not mean he gets the same outcome. And as far as an appeal to democracy is concerned the number of votes you get to use is irrespective of race or speed.So if science deem, say, whites to be sub-par compared to blacks when it comes to running... The whites should have an equal opportunity to get running medals?
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
As to the bolded part... Can one be racist if one can show that black people in fact seem to run faster compared to whites? I don't see the "responsibility" problem there?
Is it OK to be racist, as long as you point to scientific data?
For me, personally, it would be the utmost logical brain leap to think the human races have developed identically, given evolution and the different conditions we have had.
Just like we changed colour of skin, logic dictates that our brains might not exactly have gone in the identical same direction, no?
You do realize that the variation between groups is less then variation within most race groups (massive inbreeding can skew this see royalty and various inbred religious groups).As to the bolded part... Can one be racist if one can show that black people in fact seem to run faster compared to whites? I don't see the "responsibility" problem there?
Is it OK to be racist, as long as you point to scientific data?
For me, personally, it would be the utmost logical brain leap to think the human races have developed identically, given evolution and the different conditions we have had.
Just like we changed colour of skin, logic dictates that our brains might not exactly have gone in the identical same direction, no?
Also the largest variation on the gene level is men vs women. So as a group men are more closely related to each other than a woman of the same race. Think about it. Do you think we should be able to curtail the rights of men or women based on their chromosomes?
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
I started off with equal opportunity does not equal outcome. White guy can compete but it does not mean he gets the same outcome. And as far as an appeal to democracy is concerned the number of votes you get to use is irrespective of race or speed.
You do realize that the variation between groups is less then variation within most race groups (massive inbreeding can skew this see royalty and various inbred religious groups).
Also the largest variation on the gene level is men vs women. So as a group men are more closely related to each other than a woman of the same race. Think about it. Do you think we should be able to curtail the rights of men or women based on their chromosomes?
Sorry, it's early AM and I am off to bed. I started off with equal opportunity does not equal outcome. White guy can compete but it does not mean he gets the same outcome. And as far as an appeal to democracy is concerned the number of votes you get to use is irrespective of race or speed.
You do realize that the variation between groups is less then variation within most race groups (massive inbreeding can skew this see royalty and various inbred religious groups).
Also the largest variation on the gene level is men vs women. So as a group men are more closely related to each other than a woman of the same race. Think about it. Do you think we should be able to curtail the rights of men or women based on their chromosomes?
1. Love the images with the bananas :)
2. Speaking of bananas, love the comparison with females vs men... Women are from Venus...
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
Don Sterling had every right to make those offensive comments towards that woman. She also had every right to make public the demeaning and insulting things he was saying about her friends. The NBA, as an organization that has always had a heavy hand in promoting an end to racism, had every right to fire his ignorant behind. Where's the problem? NBA Team owners aren't really owners in the sense that European football clubs are owned. They are more like franchise managers, operating within a very specific over-arching framework. Nothing to see here, move along. Ignorant racist gets his comeuppance, big deal.
NO, THIS IS ABOUT THE DECLINE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF MONEY RIDING ON THE CLIPPERS THIS YEAR!Don Sterling had every right to make those offensive comments towards that woman. She also had every right to make public the demeaning and insulting things he was saying about her friends. The NBA, as an organization that has always had a heavy hand in promoting an end to racism, had every right to fire his ignorant behind. Where's the problem? NBA Team owners aren't really owners in the sense that European football clubs are owned. They are more like franchise managers, operating within a very specific over-arching framework. Nothing to see here, move along. Ignorant racist gets his comeuppance, big deal.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
Hoping for a Blazers win myself, but I do like the Clippers. It makes me happy to see the Lakers upstaged.
It makes me mad, I actually hate the Clippers and wish they would leave so LA could move in a football team in their place.Hoping for a Blazers win myself, but I do like the Clippers. It makes me happy to see the Lakers upstaged.
And now in my serious post, I will say that the tape itself was produce in a sleazy fashion and that no one should be forced to give up their property for their private opinions. Him being banned is completely justified though.
He is being punished by the group he signed a contract with
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE HATE CAPITALISM
How some of you remember to breathe remains truly astonishing to me
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE HATE CAPITALISM
How some of you remember to breathe remains truly astonishing to me
If I'm reading it right, it is legal in America to tape (and release publicly) phone conversations you're involved in?
Originally Posted by rvg:
The day when a man cannot say whatever the hell he wants in the privacy of his own goddamn bedroom is indeed a sad day. Not for him, he's loaded, he won't care either way. For the rest of us. The conformity nazis have struck again, yet the sheep are clamoring for more.
Gah.
If I call my boss a whore, and someone from work hears me, I can expect to get fired no matter where it was said.The day when a man cannot say whatever the hell he wants in the privacy of his own goddamn bedroom is indeed a sad day. Not for him, he's loaded, he won't care either way. For the rest of us. The conformity nazis have struck again, yet the sheep are clamoring for more.
Gah.
I can't see how a racist tirade should be any different.
Freedom of speech is meaningless if our words don't have consequences. That someone wants to be able to say whatever they want without any consequences is just proof of them being crybabies.
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube:
That varies, and generally its not. However, this isn't a legal issue. This is an internal NBA issue, and they enforce from within. They made the determination that the evidence was valid and used it to ban him from the game, and there will be an owners' vote to determine whether or not he is forced to "sell" the team. The law never actually enters into it at all. This is corporate justice, which makes the right wing hate all the more funny.
In Europe, the sports association levies fines and issues bans, if needed, but a team still has the option of taking it to the courts. A fine and a ban are business as usual in these cases but forcing him to sell his property is a completely different issue.That varies, and generally its not. However, this isn't a legal issue. This is an internal NBA issue, and they enforce from within. They made the determination that the evidence was valid and used it to ban him from the game, and there will be an owners' vote to determine whether or not he is forced to "sell" the team. The law never actually enters into it at all. This is corporate justice, which makes the right wing hate all the more funny.
Originally Posted by Tiaexz:
Technically that is not true.
You might have not realised this, but 'white' people are not white (Albino-ism kind of is due to lack of melanin, but thats different and affects 'black' people too). When we go in contact with the sun, the body produces more melanin which is already existing, which makes us darker. Due to being resident in a far more sunnier place, peoples skin contain far more melanin than a place with a lot less sun. There is a slight gene variation on the initial concentrations.
In terms of genetic variation, the difference is a joke. The only real difference is in the mind of people socially programmed as racists.
Apparently we Euro-whiners got our skin from the Neanderthals. I guess the first Africans in Europe found the light skinned Neanderthals sexy.Technically that is not true.
You might have not realised this, but 'white' people are not white (Albino-ism kind of is due to lack of melanin, but thats different and affects 'black' people too). When we go in contact with the sun, the body produces more melanin which is already existing, which makes us darker. Due to being resident in a far more sunnier place, peoples skin contain far more melanin than a place with a lot less sun. There is a slight gene variation on the initial concentrations.
In terms of genetic variation, the difference is a joke. The only real difference is in the mind of people socially programmed as racists.
Originally Posted by Sarmatian:
In Europe, the sports association levies fines and issues bans, if needed, but a team still has the option of taking it to the courts. A fine and a ban are business as usual in these cases but forcing him to sell his property is a completely different issue.
not entirely true - I know football owners have to pass a "test" of sorts before they can buy a club in the UK and they cannot change the name of said club without approval from the league - I wouldn't be surprised to find out FIFA also can force an owner to sell - they just haven't used said claus yet...In Europe, the sports association levies fines and issues bans, if needed, but a team still has the option of taking it to the courts. A fine and a ban are business as usual in these cases but forcing him to sell his property is a completely different issue.
Originally Posted by Sir Moody:
not entirely true - I know football owners have to pass a "test" of sorts before they can buy a club in the UK and they cannot change the name of said club without approval from the league - I wouldn't be surprised to find out FIFA also can force an owner to sell - they just haven't used said claus yet...
Hull City Tigers.not entirely true - I know football owners have to pass a "test" of sorts before they can buy a club in the UK and they cannot change the name of said club without approval from the league - I wouldn't be surprised to find out FIFA also can force an owner to sell - they just haven't used said claus yet...
Cardiff City "Bluebirds".
MK Bloody Dons.
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