Speaking of Israel...

PVC He's already bowed out, kindly reserve your mud slinging for someone who is actually asking for it.

Originally Posted by Husar

I was talking about two statements in the same post, did it take you a day to write it?

Technically I have been thinking about this over several days, I was referring to my revision between the sentiment that shame has no benefit to one of shame having benefit but the degree of despair rory showed is far too much for the amount of wrong our history bears, especially when compared to the shame of other nationalities with similar atrocity to thier names.

Yeah, it was nice and all, but led directly to two World Wars which we started and lost...
A peaceful unification would have been preferable but not achievable due to the hostility of/conflict with the neighbors.

That would have been ideal, but ideals require consensus to be carried out painlessly, not even Bismark was able to wrestle germany from austria through diplomacy alone and what his successors did with the empire his generation left them does not detract from their accomplisments.

In the end all that conflict also unloaded onto the neighbors during the World Wars.
Part of why we decided to drop the conflict and hostilities for the most part after WW2.
And it's your conflict-loving, proud nation that keeps moaning about our peaceful union.

It would be wierd if it was a meek peace loving nation that complained about your union.

On my part: my objections with your union is that it's headed by a bunch of political retirees past thier prime who are propped up far past the point they should have failed. It's the same thought I have about scottish independance, it might have a place in the future, but it wont be a happy one unless it finds a better alternatve to the current leadership.

That's your interpretation, but I do not think that proud Russians would see any of those internal "issues" as issues or think that those things are shameful. They do not quite think like British people, different customs, mentality, culture etc.

I suppose, but if any of us are an indication I doubt the country that once made the world tremble at it's whims is completely over the downsizing it suffered in the 90's.

You mean it is impossible that I could exist without the industrial revolution? I'm not a test tube baby...

The physical being that is husar might exist, but the culmination of education, ideals and experience that composes the person I'm talking to would be impossible without the influences of the societal changes brought on by the industrial revolution.

And taking pride in something that happened due to random chance and that one didn't even remotely take part in is completely nonsensical. You also kind of forgot to read my last post it seems.

Eh, honestly didnt notice that one until after I posted.

Random chance? I suppose, go down that path of thought long enough and you end up in the realm of predeterminism: that none of what you do is actually down to any self determination but merely a highly complex organic machine reacting to external stimuli. An automaton that has fooled itself into thinking it has any manner of choice. I am not that cynical just yet.

As for my involvment: yes, I wasnt there. There is however the comfort knowing that people like me, with the same language, manner and, to a degree, lineage managed to achieve greatness, and that they have left behind so much to provide my generation with even more potential than they had. If nothing else is a legitimate reason to be proud, it is knowing that so much is proven possible for the category I find myself a part.

The challenge will be living up to that potential without further burdening the conscience of the following generations.