IMMIGRATION thread

[Fragony]

Kareem Abdoul Jabbar.

I got the same question, a tiny minority doesn't have has zero gravitas, islam just doesn't belong here. That's the answer.

[AE Bravo]

No, it belongs anywhere. There's just not enough progressive Muslims.

Since the US hardly has this problem and handles it well, EU just sucks at immigration and not up to the task. Biting off more than you can chew.

[Husar]

I apreciate your sarcasm really, but I know you are deeply wrong

About what? How can you say I'm deeply wrong when I was basically agreeing with you?
Or am I wrong until I demand gas chambers for immigrants according to you?

[Fragony]

About what? How can you say I'm deeply wrong when I was basically agreeing with you?
Or am I wrong until I demand gas chambers for immigrants according to you?

Can take it too far. You aren't basicly agreeing with me as you see no problem with the immense blunder Mutti Theresa made. It's going to take a while before anyone is going to take Germany serious again, nobody wants to share the burden. Been a while since countries are fortifying their borders. Since we are in Godwin territory, Germany is finally going to be judenrein, but juden are going to leave voluntary this time, they understand perfectly well what Mutti Theresa let in.

[Sarmatian]

they understand perfectly well what Mutti Theresa let in.

That has a head, torso, two legs, two arms, walks upright so definitely primates. Not enough hair to be apes so I make a motion we call that people, and the offspring of that -> children.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If they are allowed to make political protests, they will all be religiously-charged ones that bring middle eastern problems to EU. It’s going to drive policy towards mideast and within. There’s a reason you don’t see any of them in the United States.

Pretending like nothing’s wrong is unhealthy, the issues need to be tackled or you’re harboring racism. This seems all too familiar, and people are forgetting the fact that the immigrants have escaped war and countries ripped apart by sectarianism. Good luck if that's how you're going to deal with them. Stop fronting.

So...

Don't allow them to protest?

People are very vocal about the fact that they're not happy with the way immigrants behave and that they don't want the sectarian problems of the Middle-East imported but all the immigrants do is cry "racist".

So, now, many countries don't want to have these immigrants here at all.

Now, I recall that you said several pages ago that we should be taking thousands if not tens of thousands of people in per country, you implied we were obligated. So how do you propose we deal with their refusal to integrate?

We're not going to restrict their political or social freedoms any more than the native/assimilated population.

[Fragony]

That has a head, torso, two legs, two arms, walks upright so definitely primates. Not enough hair to be apes so I make a motion we call that people, and the offspring of that -> children.

Who think so kindly of jews, christians, and eachother.

[Husar]

Who think so kindly of jews, christians, and eachother.

Funny how you make such blanket statements about thousands of different people from more than a dozen different countries.
But I guess it can't be wrong because "Es muss sein." as you like to say...

[Fisherking]

So...

Don't allow them to protest?

People are very vocal about the fact that they're not happy with the way immigrants behave and that they don't want the sectarian problems of the Middle-East imported but all the immigrants do is cry "racist".

So, now, many countries don't want to have these immigrants here at all.

Now, I recall that you said several pages ago that we should be taking thousands if not tens of thousands of people in per country, you implied we were obligated. So how do you propose we deal with their refusal to integrate?

We're not going to restrict their political or social freedoms any more than the native/assimilated population.

I am interested in how they are all getting to Europe. It sure is a boom for the human trafficking trade.

Of course Soros says that his organisations are helping. I just wonder exactly how much and in what ways. All these poor people seem to have the thousands of dollars/euro/drachmas etc. to pay passage, with them coming from as far as Afghanistan.

He says borders and national sovereignty are the problem.

We all know what a big heart he has. Funny how all these ultra-rich have such big hearts and a problem with national sovereignty. I guess that is also a problem with rule of law. How very selfless they are. They all seem to be working for a global society and global government.

Weren’t these some of the very people who control the corporations who drafted and negotiated the TPP and several other trade treats said to infringe on national sovereignty?

I suppose it is only coincidental. After all, they are supporters and even the founders of such noble causes as open borders, global warming, free trade treaties, sustainable development, open cities, agenda 21, and agenda 2030. They were the architects of such fabulous democratic institutions like the EU and exert strong influence on the UN.

No, I am sure we are all just fools to question the motives of central bankers and the richest among the corporate elite. It is all humanitarianism and there could not possibly be anything in it for them.

Aren’t they all worthy causes and the global elite seem to be staking all their wealth to bring them to us. Obviously we are just looking a gift horse in the mouth.

I feel much, much, much, much better now. Knowing that all the richest me of the world, who know so very much more what is good for us, are looking out for the wellbeing of humanity and leading us to utopia. Even though they are forced to resort to dystopian methods to achieve it. All just for us. Aren’t we lucky.

[Fragony]

Funny how you make such blanket statements about thousands of different people from more than a dozen different countries.
But I guess it can't be wrong because "Es muss sein." as you like to say...

Am I wrong then? Antisemitism is rampant among people from islamic countries. I don't say es muss sein, that's just my way of mocking multicultists who can't understand the oh so obvious.

[Husar]

Come on, you blame the job creators for this?

Are you saying it's not fair that the nazis, the foreign criminal families that threaten judges, the local criminals who hold foreigners as sex slaves, the Italians who run their mafia here and the bankers who launder terrorist money "cannot be stopped" but when someone uses your grandma's internet connection to download a movie, she is threatened with 30 years in prison? We need to protect the job creators man, when someone uses poor eastern euros as sex slaves by threatening to kill their families if they talk in court, then it does not bother our national interests and there is no need to do anything. The real problem is when someone takes more from the rich than he pays back with interest, that's the kind of behavior we need to stop at all costs because it ruins our democracy.

We need to make sure that the poor (nazis) continue to fight the other poor (immigrants, salafists) before anyone gets the idea that the rich might be the ones making a profit from wage dumping. Let's blame more of our problems on the powerless poor masses!

[AE Bravo]

Now, I recall that you said several pages ago that we should be taking thousands if not tens of thousands of people in per country, you implied we were obligated. So how do you propose we deal with their refusal to integrate?

We're not going to restrict their political or social freedoms any more than the native/assimilated population.

The problem is the Islam you are importing. Every Muslim student association in Europe is funded by the Muslim Brotherhood, while every mosque is controlled by the Saudi clergy and its Shura council. Every Friday sermon and most university gatherings is rightwing Islam.

It’s baffling how people like Frag here overlook this Islamic politics game and just brush aside the whole thing when there’s no other solution besides containing this game yourself like the US has. Your people have done a fine job of colonizing and oppressing the private sphere in the past in other countries, do it on your own turf for once. Time to follow up on your humanitarian-pragmatic game.

Sometimes you need some fox news here and there to ease the process, lefty Islam gon pop up sooner or later. Oh look the UK is doing it already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilliam_(think_tank)

[Husar]

Am I wrong then? Antisemitism is rampant among people from islamic countries. I don't say es muss sein, that's just my way of mocking multicultists who can't understand the oh so obvious.

Anti-Americanism is rampant in Germany, Anti-Israelism as well to an extent, doesn't mean all the Americans left. And this is also a matter of proper integration. Of course they have to accept our values sooner or later, but when you greet them with demonstrations and by burning their homes you are not exactly advertising your "superior" culture to them either. I'm usually for a more "hard but hearty"-approach. Make people feel welcome but also don't present yourself as a "victim culture" where troublemakers are ignored or find plenty of loopholes to exploit. The latter is mostly a political problem, but our laws and procedures were already inadequate before these refugees came. Germany is also a safe haven for the Italian mafia, a trading hub for slaves and so on... The nationalists just don't seem to care much about that as they feel it does not affect them, the children of poor eastern Europeans are traded here after all, not their own...
Talk about cold and heartless.

[Fragony]

Every country has crime. Not every country takes in much more immigrants than they can handle. Where are they going to live? Where do their kids go to school? These kids don't speak German, going to be a burden for schools. Too many.

[Husar]

Every country has crime.

What a great argument, I think we can end the thread on that.

[Fragony]

What a great argument, I think we can end the thread on that.

Not we, you can, you have the means. But it wouldn't change anything. Things are going to be problematic anyway because it's simply dumb.

extraedit, go Patt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfb0PFZY5fA only being reasonable, but there is no reason in absolute faith and multiculturalism is a religion.

[Sarmatian]

Every country has crime. Not every country takes in much more immigrants than they can handle. Where are they going to live? Where do their kids go to school? These kids don't speak German, going to be a burden for schools. Too many.

And you have the numbers to prove it?

Last time when you were yammering about thousands of immigrants in Netherlands, I showed you data that disproved it and you immediately disappeared from the thread.

That's the right way to do it. Keep yourself ignorant otherwise you might have to cut down on the senseless hate.

[Gilrandir]

And you have the numbers to prove it?

Last time when you were yammering about thousands of immigrants in Netherlands, I showed you data that disproved it and you immediately disappeared from the thread.

That's the right way to do it. Keep yourself ignorant otherwise you might have to cut down on the senseless hate.

That goes back to you as well. You were "yammering" about empty West Ukrainian universities and even cities whose students and other inhabitants are all nationalists who have gone to raise hell on Maidan. When I asked for quantitative statistics you dropped the topic. Mote in thy eye, you know.

[Fragony]

And you have the numbers to prove it?

Last time when you were yammering about thousands of immigrants in Netherlands, I showed you data that disproved it and you immediately disappeared from the thread.

That's the right way to do it. Keep yourself ignorant otherwise you might have to cut down on the senseless hate.

I never play unfair, I have no idea what you are talking about but I will respond if you can find it. Senseless hate, just being reasonable. Even Sweden cries out that it are just too many, and Sweden is Sweden, it's just not possible.


You are perfectly right of course, I am going to tell my Iranian girlfriend tonight that I senselessly hate her. I never liked her anyway. It's about time I just say it.

[Gilrandir]

You are perfectly right of course, I am going to tell my Iranian girlfriend tonight that I senselessly hate her. I never liked her anyway. It's about time I just say it.

Wow, I see there's gonna be some dirty play tonight. Just don't overdo it with the whip.

[Sarmatian]

That goes back to you as well. You were "yammering" about empty West Ukrainian universities and even cities whose students and other inhabitants are all nationalists who have gone to raise hell on Maidan. When I asked for quantitative statistics you dropped the topic. Mote in thy eye, you know.

The data completely refuted his clam, showing that net population gain topped at 6000-7000 in a single year during the last several years and has even been negative once or twice, ie. more people emigrated from than immigrated to Netherlands. Considering his point was that "there's no place for immigrants", it was pertinent for the discussion.

You, on the other hand, demanded numbers for a statement of mine. It was an article which said that a university in Lvov was closed during Maidan. You asked me to provide numbers which didn't exist, how many students were home, how many went to Kiev. It wasn't important because it was a significant number, otherwise university wouldn't cancel its lectures.

You didn't have a clue then and apparently, you still don't.

I never play unfair, I have no idea what you are talking about but I will respond if you can find it. Senseless hate, just being reasonable. Even Sweden cries out that it are just too many, and Sweden is Sweden, it's just not possible.


You are perfectly right of course, I am going to tell my Iranian girlfriend tonight that I senselessly hate her. I never liked her anyway. It's about time I just say it.

Is this another way of saying "I have black friends but..." ?

[Fragony]

I got black friends yeah, that one is such a cliche. You think I am a racist, that's fine. I'll tell my gf and my Somalian guest who lives in my guestroom that I dispise them, they aren't going to believe me though

You didn't jgive me what I asked for by the way, saying that I said something I didn't is called slander

[Fragony]

Islam is not a race and you're not racist if you are concerned about millions of unregistered and unknown people spilling into your country.

Ya. Turkish maffia caught on quikly, almost all pasports are fake, we have no idea who these people are. They refuse to register because Mutti Theresa promised everybody is welcome in Germany. That relinut farmhorse is a disaster.

[Husar]

Islam is not a race and you're not racist if you are concerned about millions of unregistered and unknown people spilling into your country.

Every country has crime.

[Montmorency]

Islam is not a race and you're not racist if you are concerned about millions of unregistered and unknown people spilling into your country.

In fact, it would be much easier if European governments adopted policies that answered a different question than 'how do we deal with these Mohammedans?'

By approaching integration as something that is done to or by "Muslims", you implicitly endorse the Islamist manifesto of "Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer"; if we would like to remediate the insular tendencies of disoriented foreigners, then giving them nothing to latch onto but fundamentalist pan-Islamic identity and a sense of grievance. Or should we be surprised when we sweep a bunch of dust into a corner and end up with dustballs?

Even going according to a breakdown by ethnicity or national origin would be an improvement. Of course, at this point it would be too little too late given the oppositional structure and culture that has become well-established in Muslim Europe over the past 20 years.

[Sarmatian]

I got black friends yeah, that one is such a cliche. You think I am a racist, that's fine. I'll tell my gf and my Somalian guest who lives in my guestroom that I dispise them, they aren't going to believe me though

You didn't jgive me what I asked for by the way, saying that I said something I didn't is called slander

I don't have the time to go search for it now. Maybe I'll get to it in the next few days, although one would think that you, being such a staunch opponent of immigration, would keep facts and figures at you finger tips.

Islam is not a race and you're not racist if you are concerned about millions of unregistered and unknown people spilling into your country.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Racism, like so many other terms, has broadened in meaning and includes hate of any group of different people, not necessarily just those with different skin colour.

But, okay, I'll play ball - is bigotry or chauvinism more to your liking?

Registration takes time, and it will be done eventually (a huge number has already been registered when they entered Serbia, it was Greece that didn't register almost anyone so they wouldn't appear as the first country refugees entered because then the rest of EU could theoretically just dump them all back to Greece) but it would be inhumane to keep refugees outside for weeks/months while they wait for registration, in Europe in November.

At least inform yourselves about basic facts before you start hating. But, if you did that, most of the problem would be solved.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The problem is the Islam you are importing. Every Muslim student association in Europe is funded by the Muslim Brotherhood, while every mosque is controlled by the Saudi clergy and its Shura council. Every Friday sermon and most university gatherings is rightwing Islam.

It’s baffling how people like Frag here overlook this Islamic politics game and just brush aside the whole thing when there’s no other solution besides containing this game yourself like the US has. Your people have done a fine job of colonizing and oppressing the private sphere in the past in other countries, do it on your own turf for once. Time to follow up on your humanitarian-pragmatic game.

Sometimes you need some fox news here and there to ease the process, lefty Islam gon pop up sooner or later. Oh look the UK is doing it already https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilliam_(think_tank)

We do not oppress the residents of our own country, nor do we covertly infiltrate religious groups to bend them to society's will.

Quilliam has been around for a while, as have de-radicalisation programs.

The problem is inherent in the war we are fighting - Islamists want to destroy Europe - All Islamists are Muslims, many are born in Europe - we have to keep an eye on Muslims in Europe to try to identify people who are rasicals or who are being groomed - attempting to intervene in the grooming process has been know to accelerate it and create new radicals.

Many of the Muslims in Europe are poor, poorly integrated and lack the language skills or education to get on in our society. They are in serious danger, as a group, of becoming a distinct underlcass which means they become, as a group, a problem.

Now, wealthy well educated Muslims - likely similar to yourself - have no problem integrating, even if they don't drink, but they are a minority.

The people flooding Europe's Limes are fertile ground for radicalisation once they reach Europe because they will struggle to integrate and we lack the tools to help them - and a lot of them are former fighters and just flat our nasty to boot.

[Viking]

Returning to the topic of what a refugee is, this is what the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status under the 1951 Convention and the 1967 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees says:

CHAPTER V – SPECIAL CASES

A. War refugees

164. Persons compelled to leave their country of origin as a result of international or national armed conflicts are not normally considered refugees under the 1951 Convention or 1967 Protocol.

In other words, coming from a war zone alone is not enough to qualify for refugee status under these papers.

[AE Bravo]

The problem is inherent in the war we are fighting - Islamists want to destroy Europe - All Islamists are Muslims, many are born in Europe - we have to keep an eye on Muslims in Europe to try to identify people who are rasicals or who are being groomed - attempting to intervene in the grooming process has been know to accelerate it and create new radicals.

Many of the Muslims in Europe are poor, poorly integrated and lack the language skills or education to get on in our society. They are in serious danger, as a group, of becoming a distinct underlcass which means they become, as a group, a problem.

This is accommodating Islamists though. Hardliners rely on “covert infiltration” and the only way to deal with them is to respond in kind. It’s a cancer and it’s not inherent in the war you’re fighting.

If you have no interest in getting more reasonable Muslim teachings to win the hearts and minds of your Muslim population than it’s no surprise that most of them turn to a life of even more struggle (jihadism). Counter-productive to the nation and stalls growth of a distinct European Islam loyal to European countries.

What tools are lacking to help exactly?

[Husar]

In other words, coming from a war zone alone is not enough to qualify for refugee status under these papers.

Which is funny because it says: "A. War refugees"