IMMIGRATION thread

[Greyblades]

In one house raid, HRW said, police broke four of a disabled man's teeth before they realised he was not the person they were looking for
[...]
In another case recorded by Amnesty, police forced open the door of an elderly man with heart problems, causing him to faint. He was later taken to hospital in an ambulance, while his daughters - one of whom is disabled - were handcuffed and screamed at by officers.

.Immediately after a terrorist attack of such scale and savagery, I'm surprised the police wern't more abusive to their suspects.

"This abuse has traumatised families and tarnished reputations, leaving targets feeling like second-class citizens."

I'm pretty sure it was the terrorists not the police that tarnished their reputations.

[Husar]

I don't really see the issue. That is how the system works in France, and if "throwing a Quran on the floor" is part of what is needed to prevent another mass murder in Paris/France then that's just how it goes.

Why did France attack Gaddhafi if their system is basically the same?

.Immediately after a terrorist attack of such scale and savagery, I'm surprised the police wern't more abusive to their suspects.

Because two wrongs make a right? If an Englishman stabbed someone with a knife in London should they raid your house and lead you naked outside in the middle of the night because you're an Englishman, too? Seems right in the spirit of the Magna Carta, no?

I'm pretty sure it was the terrorists not the police that tarnished their reputations.

And this is why we need lynch mobs and trials by ordeal back!

[Greyblades]

I see you're in another "Overusing strawmen and misrepresentations to hide my current inability to debate" phase.

Or is this a "I've lost faith in my reasoning but I am still unable to change my viewpoint and the ensuing mental struggle causing me to fail to fully comprehend the oppositions posts" phase?

I can rarely tell which.

[Snowhobbit]

Why did France attack Gaddhafi if their system is basically the same?

Would you please direct me to the French torture chambers?
How many lives is a Quran on the floor worth to you? When an apartment gets searched they tend to do it quickly. I got my bags searched in an airport once and you don't see me crying about it.

[Husar]

I see you're in another "Overusing strawmen and misrepresentations to hide my current inability to debate" phase.

Or is this a "I've lost faith in my reasoning but I am still unable to change my viewpoint and the ensuing mental struggle causing me to fail to fully comprehend the oppositions posts" phase?

I can rarely tell which.

I don't know what phase of dismissal you're in but we tend to have laws and judges for a reason. These searches were warrantless and apparently mostly random if there were hardly any arrests. We have an entire police brutality thread in the Backroom where similar cases are frowned upon and yet here it is all fine because "terrorism and they're all brown", which is not a direct quote in case it makes you angry otherwise.

Would you please direct me to the French torture chambers?
How many lives is a Quran on the floor worth to you? When an apartment gets searched they tend to do it quickly. I got my bags searched in an airport once and you don't see me crying about it.

There was not just a quran on the floor:

In another case recorded by Amnesty, police forced open the door of an elderly man with heart problems, causing him to faint. He was later taken to hospital in an ambulance, while his daughters - one of whom is disabled - were handcuffed and screamed at by officers.

Many of those interviewed said they were now scared of the police and have been shunned by their neighbours. Some said they were seeking to leave the country out of fear.

The latter may be the desired effect of such measures. You basically ruin the lives of people by making all their neighbors suspect them (really helps integration!) and make them lose trust in the government.

France's government has said it will ask parliament to renew the state of emergency for another three months.

"But it has not provided compelling evidence that would justify the need to continue these sweeping measures," said HRW.

And then you also extend these "do whatever you want"-powers because it's so nice to have them and you just want to save people.
My point can also be found in the article:

"Freedom, equality and fraternity have been badly damaged in the weeks since the November attacks. France should live by those words and restore their meaning."

I'm worried about our western values, but it's not the muslims who are eroding them, a few of them just push the right buttons and then we do it ourselves.

[Snowhobbit]

There was not just a quran on the floor:




The latter may be the desired effect of such measures. You basically ruin the lives of people by making all their neighbors suspect them (really helps integration!) and make them lose trust in the government.



And then you also extend these "do whatever you want"-powers because it's so nice to have them and you just want to save people.
My point can also be found in the article:



I'm worried about our western values, but it's not the muslims who are eroding them, a few of them just push the right buttons and then we do it ourselves.

When there is a state of emergency then those rules apply. If the rules say no warrants are needed, then no warrants are needed.

It is generally common for police officers to handcuff people when making arrests or detaining individuals.

I suppose they can queue up behind the jews who are leaving the country due to actual danger.

[Husar]

When there is a state of emergency then those rules apply. If the rules say no warrants are needed, then no warrants are needed.

A state of emergency usually requires some kind of emergency. Since they hardly charged anyone after a lot of raids, why the state of emergency? And noone has to believe their emergency rules are fair.

It is generally common for police officers to handcuff people when making arrests or detaining individuals.

That doesn't change that plenty of people around the globe complain about HOW they do it and TO WHOM they do it at times. Are they all wrong?

I suppose they can queue up behind the jews who are leaving the country due to actual danger.

What does that have to do with this issue or are we back to "two wrongs make a right"?

[Snowhobbit]

A state of emergency usually requires some kind of emergency. Since they hardly charged anyone after a lot of raids, why the state of emergency? And noone has to believe their emergency rules are fair.



That doesn't change that plenty of people around the globe complain about HOW they do it and TO WHOM they do it at times. Are they all wrong?



What does that have to do with this issue or are we back to "two wrongs make a right"?

I guess the November and January events were just regular things happening on a daily basis. I was unaware that you had access to the French intelligence services and have assessed that there is no real threat, most impressive. Fair or not, those are the rules.

Plenty of people complain here when we arrest rapists and murders, should we listen to them also? People complain about everything and anything, complaints alone do not make for a valid argument.

It has something to do with you believing that there is no reason for a state of emergency, that there is nothing going on in France and everything is just business as usual.

[Greyblades]

I don't know what phase of dismissal you're in but we tend to have laws and judges for a reason. These searches were warrantless and apparently mostly random if there were hardly any arrests. We have an entire police brutality thread in the Backroom where similar cases are frowned upon and yet here it is all fine because "terrorism and they're all brown", which is not a direct quote in case it makes you angry otherwise.

And if you were paying attention you would realize that my post was in no way an endorsement or even a condonement of their actions.

Were you not so eager to misiniterpret any post not in perfect agreement with your point of view and attempt to portray the person as irrational racists you would have seen that.

[Husar]

I guess the November and January events were just regular things happening on a daily basis. I was unaware that you had access to the French intelligence services and have assessed that there is no real threat, most impressive. Fair or not, those are the rules.

Plenty of people complain here when we arrest rapists and murders, should we listen to them also? People complain about everything and anything, complaints alone do not make for a valid argument.

It has something to do with you believing that there is no reason for a state of emergency, that there is nothing going on in France and everything is just business as usual.

IIRC the article mentions some 3200 raids with about 5 arrests. Please explain how that hints towards them having concrete evidence.
As for that's the rules, insert Godwin here...

And if you were paying attention you would realize that my post was in no way an endorsement or even a condonement of their actions.

Were you not so eager to misiniterpret any post not in perfect agreement with your point of view and attempt to portray the person as irrational racists you would have seen that.

I see, your post was essentially not saying anything. Well done then, go on.

[Greyblades]

Please come back when you want to have a serious discussion, thankyouverymuch.

Because two wrongs make a right? If an Englishman stabbed someone with a knife in London should they raid your house and lead you naked outside in the middle of the night because you're an Englishman, too? Seems right in the spirit of the Magna Carta, no?

And this is why we need lynch mobs and trials by ordeal back!

[Husar]

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=577076ED

[Sarmatian]

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=577076ED

Very true, but, to be fair, it is only true here. In India, they are individuals we represent the whites. Rest of the world is just as racist as the west is.

They just have less money and influence.

[Greyblades]

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=577076ED

I wasnt expecting you to actually improve, but I at least expected you to be interesting.

[Fragony]

Lesson learned, from Russia with love http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/04/re...-next-morning/

go team Russia, if even Norway expells you for bad behaviour...

[Snowhobbit]

I wasnt expecting you to actually improve, but I at least expected you to be interesting.

I think it would be better for you if you only expect him to become worse. At least then you can't be disappointed :)

Close, it was around 900-1,000 AD his name was Tord - he built the first Church in the region.

The joke was that I do have a Swedish name - Wallinder - and my father is Swedish by nationality and I'm roughly 25% Swedish by blood.

However, I would not claim to be Swedish.

And would this be because you were actually born and raised in UK with UK values? Or because the blood quota isn't high enough? :P

[Husar]

I wasnt expecting you to actually improve, but I at least expected you to be interesting.

If you're trying to condition me, I suggest you get a dog.

[Beskar]

Hey look, it is my avatar.