IMMIGRATION thread

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

While it is true that they were mostly (or all?) citizens of European countries, they also gained access and entry to Europe by hiding amongst the stream of refugees. Or should we ignore the passport that was registered as entering Greece as a refugee last summer being connected to the perps?

You mean that passport that had nothing to do with the terrorists? That one? The thing is, French intelligence have stated they were watching this cell and knew they had returned to Europe from Syria (so...not by sneaking in with refugees...otherwise EUROPOL would have evidence, wouldn't they.)...and then 'lost' them.

You know...it's so easy to get people to believe something...just write it as a headline story. Doesn't matter if the story is later shown to have no truth to it....it'll always be the thing that people remember. Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well....

[wooly_mammoth]

Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants.

[Fragony]

Grab not their breasts and church your evil faith, but thank the builder for the trials that shape thee..

disclaimer, only a few will get this

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants.

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

[Fragony]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

Wny need evidence. One must assume that someone acts reationaly. Methods might seem irrational, at first, but the purpose isn't. Our enemies are not dumb.

[Sarmatian]

Wny need evidence.

Exactly!

[Fragony]

It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along. Anyone sane would think, yes of course

[Husar]

It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along. Anyone sane would think, yes of course

Are they also asking for big fences and to be kept outside? I mean, what exactly is the point?

I mean most people use "there are jihadists among them" as an argument to keep all of them outside, should we only keep the ones who warn us of jihadis? Should we go "Thank you, now get out!"? I'm not entirely clear on the logic here. If we didn't accept any, we would have never known there are jihadis among them, now that we have a million, they told us that they brought some jihadis along? Did jihadis not manage to come to Europe before 2015?

[Snowhobbit]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

While it is nice of you to try to twist the argument, do note that he used the word "immigrant" and not refugee. Now of course I am sure you will explain how all of those North African men are native Germans :).

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

While it is nice of you to try to twist the argument, do note that he used the word "immigrant" and not refugee. Now of course I am sure you will explain how all of those North African men are native Germans :).

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

[Snowhobbit]

But it is you who twisted the argument then, isn't it? You didn't correct the misapprehension by making clear that there is a distinction between immigrants and regugees, you simply transplanted the word immigrant for refugee. Given the context of the discussion that is, frankly, disingenuous.

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...di-backgrounds

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...e-failure.html

Al EU residents, all known. Tell me, given that they have legitimate EU passports....why would any of them be trying to use a false passport? And why would they take it with them on a terror attack, and leave it in a, presumably, loose pocket so that it could fall out?

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

No, you are the person who transplanted one word meaning one thing with another. I agree that is a very disingenuous way of arguing, but hey that is how you argue so I'm not sure why you are telling me. Do you not read what people post when you respond to them?

Ok....let us have a quick resumé of this part of the discussion. I pointed out that

"Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well...."

To which the response was made;

"Yup, everyone knows those women have sexually molested themselves and then they threw the blame on the immigrants."

You'll note that this response is not an acceptance of my point, that it was not refugees. This argument is NOT...'you are correct, they were not refugees they were other immigrants, but was a clear conflation of the two terms. The term 'immigrants' has simply been transplanted for 'refugees' but has been used synonymously. Not for the first or last time within the discussion (see the later "It are the migrants themselves who claim that there are jihadi's comming along." - referring to refugees)

So your claim that the word is being used distinctly from the term 'refugees' is at best limpid inattention...of course one need only look back over the discussion to check the voracity of one's position.

Of course...there are certain sections of societies who are opposed to immigration more generally...and for whom the refugees are simply another burden upon more...righteous? nations.....and tying them to terrorism is an easy 'out'.....'it's not that I've got anything against these people but.....they might be dangerous'

Yes, what reason could they have for wanting to enter the country without the intelligence services knowing that they have? Maybe they planned to attack certain public places and didn't want to get stopped?

Obviously there was an intelligence failure that lead to the successful attack, same as how the shoot-out a few days later was in contrast successful. Do note btw that your articles do not claim what you say about the French intelligence forces knowing that he had come back to France. Of course they knew that these people were radicals, there are thousands of them on the list of radicals. But because I put a name on a list does not mean I know the whereabouts of that person. If they had returned using their own passports, then it would have been known and they would have been monitored.

Except....you'll note that Europol accept that they have no evidence that Jihadists are travelling with refugees (look here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6738821.html - there are even questions raised as to whether the passport was planted in order to sow discontent and distrust (so that all of this fear-mongering is EXACTLY WHAT the terrorists want....so hats off to you all for your impressive victory over terrrorism, eh? ) which suggests that they know how and when these EU passport holders re-entered the EU.....

[wooly_mammoth]

As I said...you might want to get up to speed with the evidence vis a vis those attacks and refugees..as opposed to knee-jerk headlines.

Well, there was that footage with a german woman, her eyes welling with tears as she was passed around and fondled all over by a large group of what I will politely call subhumans of non-european descent, but that too must be a part of the occult ruse aimed at concealing the real enemy of man, right?

[Fragony]

Don't bother she is lost by now, nobody wants to know what happened to her. You do, I do, but we are kinda alone. Just like her.

[Sarmatian]

Don't bother she is lost by now, nobody wants to know what happened to her. You do, I do, but we are kinda alone. Just like her.

Frags, do you really don't understand the difference between a criminal and a rather large group of people the criminal belongs too, or are you playing dumb?

Two days ago an Uber driver shot 6 people in Kalamazoo. Which group do we hold responsible? Uber drivers, Americans, Christians or white males?

[Husar]

Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Angela Merkel doesn't know what she's doing. She knows exactly what she's doing.

[Snowhobbit]

You mean that passport that had nothing to do with the terrorists? That one? The thing is, French intelligence have stated they were watching this cell and knew they had returned to Europe from Syria (so...not by sneaking in with refugees...otherwise EUROPOL would have evidence, wouldn't they.)...and then 'lost' them.

You know...it's so easy to get people to believe something...just write it as a headline story. Doesn't matter if the story is later shown to have no truth to it....it'll always be the thing that people remember. Just like the idea that refugees are responsible for the New Year attacks on women...you might want to update yourselves on that information as well....

Yes, that passport found in connection to the group which entered Greece last summer, that passport. It is funny that you think the French intelligence was watching the cell, when the head of the cell was presumed to be in Syria until he was found in Paris in the shoot-out a couple of days after the first attack. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, it is for a good cause after all.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Yes, that passport found in connection to the group which entered Greece last summer, that passport. It is funny that you think the French intelligence was watching the cell, when the head of the cell was presumed to be in Syria until he was found in Paris in the shoot-out a couple of days after the first attack. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument, it is for a good cause after all.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...di-backgrounds

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...e-failure.html

Al EU residents, all known. Tell me, given that they have legitimate EU passports....why would any of them be trying to use a false passport? And why would they take it with them on a terror attack, and leave it in a, presumably, loose pocket so that it could fall out?