Trump Thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

If he ran like Ross Perot did, then you you be right. But he ran as a Republican thus representing one of the two greatest political establishments of the US.

He got the nomination in good part from open primaries with new voters tapping him. He talked about growing the party. The establishment was aghast at the whole thing. Except the Dems, they were thrilled because they knew they could win against Trump.

[Gilrandir]

He got the nomination in good part from open primaries with new voters tapping him. He talked about growing the party. The establishment was aghast at the whole thing. Except the Dems, they were thrilled because they knew they could win against Trump.

Whatever his nomination history may have been, it is the (Republican) establishment that accepted him.

As for being outside the establishment as a bonus to change it - it is an extremely naive supposition on the part of his voters. It is like hoping that you may enter the game of poker being a bridge player and impose the rules of bridge on poker players.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Whatever his nomination history may have been, it is the (Republican) establishment that accepted him.

Not at all. "Forced by the system's outcome to put up with him somewhat," would be nearer the mark.

As for being outside the establishment as a bonus to change it - it is an extremely naive supposition on the part of his voters. It is like hoping that you may enter the game of poker being a bridge player and impose the rules of bridge on poker players.

Not a bad analogy (though it would be nearer the emotional mark with the games reversed). And what you are witnessing is a host of poker players shouting down, belittling, and threatening the bridge player.

[Gilrandir]

Not at all. "Forced by the system's outcome to put up with him somewhat," would be nearer the mark.

Whatever reasons (or unreasons) lay behind the nomination the net result is: Trump was nominated by the Republicans. Period. After that any talk about him being out of establishment is ridiculous.

Not a bad analogy (though it would be nearer the emotional mark with the games reversed). And what you are witnessing is a host of poker players shouting down, belittling, and threatening the bridge player.

You may be right on reversing the roles (being no player of either of the games I can't make grounded conlusions on the style of playing them), but I was talking not about the relations between the players, but about the on-lookers hoping for any agreement between them.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Whatever reasons (or unreasons) lay behind the nomination the net result is: Trump was nominated by the Republicans. Period. After that any talk about him being out of establishment is ridiculous.

Any official connection to the current establishment makes you a full part of the establishment? So anything less and Raul, Fidel, and Ernesto up in the hills is playing the establishment game? I wasn't being that much of a purist. Of course Trump is establishment, he was never at the barricades. Let me say instead that the current "old boy" (and it is still mostly swinging Richards) network loathe him, were not happy he got the nom, and would like to see him out of office nearly as much as the Dems.

You may be right on reversing the roles (being no player of either of the games I can't make grounded conlusions on the style of playing them), but I was talking not about the relations between the players, but about the on-lookers hoping for any agreement between them.

Poker is associated with bluffing and is a solo effort by the players against the others. Bridge is a partnership bidding to signal to one another the best chance for a win with any given hand. Poker is considered the more "emotional" of the two games...though you can argue the point.

[Gilrandir]

Any official connection to the current establishment makes you a full part of the establishment?

In case of Trump it was not just a connection, but being picked by the establishment. Do you see the difference?

[Husar]

How is a TV celebrity and real estate mogul not part of the establishment?

What is the establishment?

a group in a society exercising power and influence over matters of policy, opinion, or taste, and seen as resisting change.
"he scandalized the Establishment of his day"
synonyms: the powers that be, the authorities, the system, the ruling class, the regime, bureaucracy, officialdom; the status quo, the prevailing political/social order; informalBig Brother; archaicthe regimen
"an irreverent comedy series that dared to poke fun at the Establishment"
an influential group within a specified profession or area of activity.
"rumblings of discontent among the medical establishment"

Don't Republicans often throw Hollywood actors and other celebrities in with the establishment?
Plus his Twitter rants about Obama made him quite famous in political circles as well. He was not as much part of the political establishment, but the Republicans themselves always blame the Hollywood, the Media and political left establishment of colluding to the point of being more or less the same "leftist establishment". See here for example: http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...blishment.html

In the same sense, Trump is part of the rightist establishment.

Or take establishment as elites in the wider sense, like here: http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...u-brexit/18483

REMAIN: THE LEFT HAS LINED UP WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT

Leftists now put bankers and bureaucrats before the people.

Brexit is a fake revolt’, writes Paul Mason in the Guardian this week: ‘Working-class culture is being hijacked to help the elite.’ A withering article in Vice agrees. ‘Brexit is the upper classes in revolt’, writes Sam Kriss.

Surely someone who brags about how many billions he has is part of the rich social elite aka establishment, no?

[Beskar]

What if the 'Establishment' is a collective grouping of multiple 'Establishment Cliques' which can hold contrary positions to eachother?