Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Winston Hughes]

Can we lynch pizza for all the chess references?

Tempting, but the problem with lynching pizza D1 is that it's usually only possible when he's town.

[Slaan]

We still wouldnt have to deal with the chess references anymore so I'd call it an +EV lynch even if he is town

[Winston Hughes]

Not sure what to make of reinoe.

Interaction with Dp101 was the most heated (and most wallsome) exchange of the game to date, and it seems reinoe was being deliberately provocative there.

Town explanation is that it was done to get a readable reaction from Dp and/or push him to play better (by reinoe's standards - no judgement either way on my part).

Scum explanation is that it was done to get a scum-readable reaction from Dp, moving him back towards the lynchable zone, and/or changing the thread tone to something more easily manipulated.

[Slaan]

I'm currently at this part and I think both are town. Dp101 just seems overall towny in tone and reaction and is trying to figure things out (I really liked post #310 of his) and reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

[Winston Hughes]

reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

Very much depends on the player. For example, Zack and pizza both tend to be a little more aggressive and obstinate as scum (by default; situational need is the main determinant).

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm currently at this part and I think both are town. Dp101 just seems overall towny in tone and reaction and is trying to figure things out (I really liked post #310 of his) and reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

Oh snap!

Slaan back, and better than before. +2 maybe. Solid!

Still, leaving your King exposed very iffy decision. Get your bishops and knights out and castle!

[Winston Hughes]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

[Slaan]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

Na, dp doesnt seem like the player to go along with something like that imo

[Zack]

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

---

I'm keeping my eye on Manass. Like I've said in previous games, her scum meta is exactly this: pop in, not really do much, complain about people not talking to her, then leave. It's not exactly too far out of her town range either, to be fair... In my experience if she's a wolf she will play pretty straightforwardly pro-wolf, and that will probably become clearer after a few days.

Cuth too, blergh. This is my problem with d1, I always think way too many people are being suspicious. For now, DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null. Few people are null or slightly above or below it, maybe. Rest are in the poo pile.

When you said "people", do you mean reinoe and cuth?

@GeneralHankerchief, did you answer the above question?

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

Yeah, there for sure is. It's tough to explain why, kind of just adapting to the environment. I wouldn't say I have a strict meta definition, simply because my meta has roughly the foundation of runny gravy at this point, but I definitely do. Does this change things for you at all w/r/t your read on me?

[Winston Hughes]

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

I don't think it is bad reasoning. I'm townreading him for that reason myself, as I don't think he could easily simulate that awkward tone so well without risking going too far with it.

As for the w/w bit, I was very clear that it was unlikely.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?),

I said the same about Manasi, and I stand by it. The read is pure gut, and I was totally clear on that. How you can read it as 'protecting', I have no idea. At best it could be taken as justification for not voting in that direction, and if it ever came to the point where I needed to justify such a decision then it would clearly be completely inadequate for the task.

and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction.

No paranoia here. My first 'serious' suspicions of you (the ones reinoe likes me for) weren't actually serious at all. Not to say they were completely inaccurate, but rather that there wasn't nearly enough there to distinguish from any given town game of yours.

With both you and pizza, my inclination has been to carry on publicly suspecting you for shallow reasons, whilst not making any real effort to actually read you properly.

Why?

If I told you that now, then it would defeat the object.

It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

As I alluded to earlier, after the last game, this is going to be a problem for me as town in this and any future games with this crowd.

There's no way to defuse it, so I'm just going to have to try and double my efforts as town to compensate.

[Cuthillius]

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.
2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today
3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely
4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.
5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.
6. El Barto: no poster
7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...
8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)
9. Cuthillius: weak pop in
10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there
11. Slaan: lock goat
12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.
13. Choxorn: Who?
14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.
15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!
16. Xiahou: ...
17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Where this leaves me:
dp101
Fred
GH, Zack, Winston
Csargo, Montmorency

Slaan mentions his opening as weak.

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

(snip)

Cuth too, blergh. This is my problem with d1, I always think way too many people are being suspicious. For now, DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null. Few people are null or slightly above or below it, maybe. Rest are in the poo pile.

@GeneralHankerchief, did you answer the above question?

Also, is there an intentional difference between how you play on here and off-site, MU specifically? You seem more ... enthusiastic there.

Zack shades Cuth again.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

INCORRECT!

My 1 o'clock class has better odds of beating Magnus!

[Winston Hughes]

INCORRECT!

My 1 o'clock class has better odds of beating Magnus!

Yeah, it's been said.

Guess that was old-fashioned paranoiac Winston sneaking into my shiny new-fangled game.

[Winston Hughes]

x-post with Slaan giving the most likely interpretation.

[Winston Hughes]

Me fail at reading.

Dp getting townread for seeming awkward afaik, because he usually does as town, and generally doesn't as scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We still wouldnt have to deal with the chess references anymore so I'd call it an +EV lynch even if he is town

INCORRECT!

Also, disappointing. Slaan at -1 now.

[Slaan]

INCORRECT!

Also, disappointing. Slaan at -1 now.

Just in case it wasnt clear: I was joking when I wanted to kill pizza for his chess shenanigans.

Other than that I'd even more pizza to my slightly townish ppl after his last posts, seemed to be solvy and not being afraid to make reads even though there is nothing spicy in it. Not entirely getting the Logic push... but seems alright for now.

[Zack]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

[Kagemusha]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

Maybe he is not spoon feeding you?

[Zack]

Maybe he is not spoon feeding you?

I don't remember complaining that coming up with my own opinions is hard and that he should tell me my reads.

That was you.

[Slaan]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

Guy with 140 posts complaining that guy with 110 posts is spamming too much



(though I agree that he hasnt repeat it as much^^)

[Slaan]

(though I agree that he shouldnt repeat it as much^^)

edited

[Zack]

Guy with 140 posts complaining that guy with 110 posts is spamming too much



(though I agree that he hasnt repeat it as much^^)

I was going back and forth with people

not the same as commenting on every post during a thread catch up