Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Fredwood]

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

So why is Chox in your POE? His spew case is just as valid as Barts, in my mind it's better then Bart's. It isn't because he's acting scummier, the entirety of peoples read on Chox is because of what people have said or done to him this game.

[Fredwood]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

[Montmorency]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

OK, a little hard to follow the logic for Slaan being scum behind these soft-claims, but it sounds like you're drawing on your experience claiming a mafia vig as a town vig, or using it as a way to tease claims from another townie (both?). If so, maybe we should be reading Slaan independently of these considerations because at some point they probably feed more into confirmation bias than offer new information.

So I was like, he can possibly be scum still somehow, therefore he is scum.

Confirmation Bias.

We can nitpick the early game, but I think most people liked his later D1, so if Slaan is scum then all that substance ought to fall apart on closer examination.


Also, how Slaan is representing the wagonomics before EOD, and how distancing vs. bussing applies, and if it reflects on Slaan's analyses at the time.

Much later tonight.

[Slaan]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

[Fredwood]

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

I'm just sort of talking out loud to myself hoping someone smarter tells me I'm dumb one way or the other. I read EOD1 at least twice but I probably have a harder time divorcing my memory of the context of the thread because I was observing it all passively but was actively there for the actual "bart" push....I need to stop self-arguing points for your defense damnit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vanilla townie fake claiming having a shot claims there could be a missing kill that night, but not two missing kills.

You had to actually be a vigilante to even CLAIM there was three kills.

When you can no longer claim town vigilante, you are sweeping this one under the rug and going with vanilla townie.

None of your actual shots, if any were successful, were on actual suspects.

Since you are a vigilante and claimed not to be, you're mafia, Slaan.

[Montmorency]

I got it.

He does have a vig power and the doc has been successful.

There's no way he as vanilla townie claims that:



This is it, this is the damning evidence.

Nooooooo way in hell does he suggest this many kills are in play unless he's eventually going to claim town vigilante.

But EVEN if he was going to claim town vigilante, he's got to explain eventual scummy kills. So in lie-world, there's also a scum vig.

There's no way to account for all the missing kills at this point, so that plan has to be abandoned.

But he's claiming in this post there are 3 kills in play, two more than the known mafia nightkill, and he never had the joat's vig shot, because I did.

There wouldn't be a town vigilante in this game unless the mafia had one. And he could always claim to be a limited vig.

Since he knew that the town had a doctor, he could easily account for missing kills.

But from a vanilla townie standpoint, he should never be claiming a Third Kill.

That's it. That's the proof in your own words, Slaan.

You were gonna claim a limited vig and frame choxorn with it. But you had to back off because that's too many kills in play that we haven't seen yet.

But why does he need to frame Choxorn if he's in the POE? How does that happen?

If he doesn't know there's a Santa role then he can't expect there ever to be an opportunity to claim anything.

Vanilla townie fake claiming having a shot claims there could be a missing kill that night, but not two missing kills.

You had to actually be a vigilante to even CLAIM there was three kills.

When you can no longer claim town vigilante, you are sweeping this one under the rug and going with vanilla townie.

None of your actual shots, if any were successful, were on actual suspects.

Since you are a vigilante and claimed not to be, you're mafia, Slaan.

Aha, so you're claiming that he actually hit a protection tonight. But - we don't know that without a doctor claim?

And if a doctor doesn't claim, then we shouldn't lynch because a town doctor should absolutely claim if it clear a townie and saves them from lynch?

That makes it sound like either way he's town, but no - it means hinging so much on this assumption doesn't work.

[Montmorency]

Wait, DP claimed, OK.

Well, that's consistent, but... I need to think.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The jig is really up now. No vanilla townie claims there were three kills that night. Never happening.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Fredwood, Monty, check my logic.

I've got him. There's literally no way to explain that.

[Fredwood]

Fredwood, Monty, check my logic.

I've got him. There's literally no way to explain that.

It looks bad?, I mean I'm already waffling... I'll have to think some more just in case I'm just being blinded by your brilliance and fancy pants. (In other words I feel that might be a little bit over my head wrt to PR hunting providing scummy kill cover, where I come from everyone is a Power Role)

[Dp101]

The jig is really up now. No vanilla townie claims there were three kills that night. Never happening.

So wait, are you saying we had an additional doctor as well as the gifter? Because that's the only way this past night's results make sense from my perspective, and it seems like we have a few too many roles in that situation (or at least, it feels weird to me for there to be 2 protective roles of the same alignment).

[Askthepizzaguy]

So wait, are you saying we had an additional doctor as well as the gifter? Because that's the only way this past night's results make sense from my perspective, and it seems like we have a few too many roles in that situation (or at least, it feels weird to me for there to be 2 protective roles of the same alignment).

Yes, there is a full doc!

Shit I need to be able to explain this.

Ok, deep breath. There are two ways of explaining Slaan's posts. Check this logic.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I got it.

He does have a vig power and the doc has been successful.

There's no way he as vanilla townie claims that:

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

This is it, this is the damning evidence.

Nooooooo way in hell does he suggest this many kills are in play unless he's eventually going to claim town vigilante.

But EVEN if he was going to claim town vigilante, he's got to explain eventual scummy kills. So in lie-world, there's also a scum vig.

There's no way to account for all the missing kills at this point, so that plan has to be abandoned.

But he's claiming in this post there are 3 kills in play, two more than the known mafia nightkill, and he never had the joat's vig shot, because I did.

There wouldn't be a town vigilante in this game unless the mafia had one. And he could always claim to be a limited vig.

Since he knew that the town had a doctor, he could easily account for missing kills.

But from a vanilla townie standpoint, he should never be claiming a Third Kill.

That's it. That's the proof in your own words, Slaan.

You were gonna claim a limited vig and frame choxorn with it. But you had to back off because that's too many kills in play that we haven't seen yet.