Ukraine Thread

[Montmorency]

Just want to post some good news: Russian alcohol consumption has decreased by 43% from its 2003 peak, and life expectancy has reached an all-time high.

[Gilrandir]

Just want to post some good news: Russian alcohol consumption has decreased by 43% from its 2003 peak, and life expectancy has reached an all-time high.

And that bears on Ukraine because...

[Montmorency]

And that bears on Ukraine because...

Close enough for Org standards. The only other option is the Weird News thread.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Might have been a better option, maybe a mod could move it?

How's this new President working out, anyway?

[Gilrandir]

How's this new President working out, anyway?

If you are addressing me, then he is a liar totally unfit for his position who was carried into his office by accident and he is digging himself into a deeper hole with almost every step he takes. That wouldn't be a problem with me if he weren't dragging the whole country into the same hole after him.
Sorry if it was too long and distracted the orgahs from discussing merits of Brexit and shortcomings of Trump.

[CrossLOPER]

he is a liar totally unfit for his position who was carried into his office by accident and he is digging himself into a deeper hole with almost every step he takes. That wouldn't be a problem with me if he weren't dragging the whole country into the same hole after him.

Hey, seems to be a lot of that going around. Wonder what's causing it?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If you are addressing me, then he is a liar totally unfit for his position who was carried into his office by accident and he is digging himself into a deeper hole with almost every step he takes. That wouldn't be a problem with me if he weren't dragging the whole country into the same hole after him.
Sorry if it was too long and distracted the orgahs from discussing merits of Brexit and shortcomings of Trump.

Well, that's disappointing. I hoped he might just be honest but inept.

Hey, seems to be a lot of that going around. Wonder what's causing it?

I wonder if what we're seeing is the generations exposed to the most leaded petrol finally coming to power? Or just leaded petrol in the voters?

[Crandar]

Even if a candidate has the best intentions (Zhelensky didn't), nepotism and corruption cannot be influenced decisively by a single change in the presidential office. It's easy to believe that difficult problems can be fixed with easy solutions, but reality is somewhat grimmer. Ukraine will become a more transparent and efficient country only gradually and slowly, while Zhelensky will probably experience a meteoric fall, similar to his recent rise. Unless he's a talented orator and can distract the sheep by vandalising old statues.

And that bears on Ukraine because...

It's fine Gilrandir, the Ukrainian TV mentioned it around 4 a.m. yesterday, so that makes it totally on-topic.

[Gilrandir]

It's easy to believe that difficult problems can be fixed with easy solutions

This was what Zelensky promised during his election campaign. When asked how can the war in Donbas be stopped he said "One just has to stop shooting".

Ukraine will become a more transparent and efficient country only gradually and slowly

It was moving that way, but evidently many people thought that the movement shoud be rocket like - and elected the one who promised that.

It's fine Gilrandir, the Ukrainian TV mentioned it around 4 a.m. yesterday, so that makes it totally on-topic.

You watch Ukrainian TV at 4 a.m?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This was what Zelensky promised during his election campaign. When asked how can the war in Donbas be stopped he said "One just has to stop shooting".



It was moving that way, but evidently many people thought that the movement shoud be rocket like - and elected the one who promised that.



You watch Ukrainian TV at 4 a.m?

At least people are voting for someone who promised change - even if it was false change.

It's a kind of hope, which is a kind of progress.

[Gilrandir]

At least people are voting for someone who promised change - even if it was false change.

It's a kind of hope, which is a kind of progress.

People always vote for someone (or something) who/that promises changes. You did this in case of Brexit, did you? Even if people support those who are at power they do that because they are promised to have "better us", "us 2.0". I believe it is a characteristic trait of humans - never to be satisfied with what they have and aspire for the better (when they vote for changes they always presume that the change will be for the better). So it isn't a problem for me.

The problem is that Zelensky presented himself (probably as Trump did) as a total opposite to politicians, as an average guy around the corner who built a successful self and knows how to build a successful country. He wanted to look an epitome of us (ordinary people) vs politicians of all views who lie, steal, embezzle, grab power and don't know how to rule the country. I somehow saw through this guise and never bought his promises. Like when he said he wouldn't hire his friends and business partners. But it is a natural thing to do - you surround yourself with those who you know and who you can rely upon. Why do you need to lie that you will hire total strangers? And all of this can be said about other promises of his. And all of this is very often exacerbated by the professional inadequacy of the people appointed by him.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

People always vote for someone (or something) who/that promises changes. You did this in case of Brexit, did you? Even if people support those who are at power they do that because they are promised to have "better us", "us 2.0". I believe it is a characteristic trait of humans - never to be satisfied with what they have and aspire for the better (when they vote for changes they always presume that the change will be for the better). So it isn't a problem for me.

The problem is that Zelensky presented himself (probably as Trump did) as a total opposite to politicians, as an average guy around the corner who built a successful self and knows how to build a successful country. He wanted to look an epitome of us (ordinary people) vs politicians of all views who lie, steal, embezzle, grab power and don't know how to rule the country. I somehow saw through this guise and never bought his promises. Like when he said he wouldn't hire his friends and business partners. But it is a natural thing to do - you surround yourself with those who you know and who you can rely upon. Why do you need to lie that you will hire total strangers? And all of this can be said about other promises of his. And all of this is very often exacerbated by the professional inadequacy of the people appointed by him.

I think the connection to Trump is apt - as John Oliver said, now anyone CAN be President. My point was more the kind of change people are voting for.

OK, in reality Zelensky is little better in terms of corruption than his predecessors, is at all, but at least the change he was promising was more than simply "higher pay, better job." At the very least the fact that his narrative of less corruption and more transparency caught fire shows that these are the things a lot of Ukrainians are prioritising.

That seems a positive thing in itself given you're in the middle of a civil ware - despite which the country didn't elect a former general.