Casual december game

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is there any sense at all that Renata was being coached in her approach?

Renata is one of the last people I expect needs coaching as any alignment.

I called out your brusque EOD comment that there are scum on the Logic wagon because, well, it would be very rare for there not to be with such a distribution. Generally I was struck by how you didn't advance the thread state with your EOD pop-in, so why do it that way at all? As either alignment it feels like you should be working some grand strategy, but the pop-in didn't feel like any meaningful strategy.

There's no strategy behind calling out how my top 3 suspects were on that wagon and it was on someone I did not read as wolf.

I didn't advance the thread state because I was busy for hours before that end of day elsewhere. I was leaving a legacy read in case the game had no doctor.

I'm sure you have good reasons, wrong or right, for suspecting all the same people I have been pinged by (I have no thoughts on Vulgard), but I figure I'll encounter them as I pore over your D1 contributions. Can you lay out in just a paragraph how all their activities fit against each other? What's the grand theory for the Mafia plan?

I have not built teams yet, I am saying who is individually wolfy before I pre-flip an entire team.

Since you're you, can you skim D1 of the last Org game (mini) and discern why Vulgard was the D1 ML? If he's your top suspect this will be relevant.

Probably not, I need to read this game and question all my suspects before end of day.

What I'm trying to say is, I recall asking you about your Logic case in comparison to his play in the then-previous game (XCOM), and you used that opportunity to deliver a slam-dunk meta case for why Logic couldn't be blue-aligned. My apologies if you did this already yesterday (wrt Vulg).

I have no meta data on Vulgard except I skimmed a recent wolf game of his and found it to be somewhere between similar and not identical.

Not useful really.

I don't think meta is how I crack Vulgard's alignment. It's going to be other processes here, since I don't know him.

[Renata]

There was something else too (about Vulgard), it was earlier and I'm not going back to looking for it. But Ender did some kind of pocket joke. Vulgard first responded to it in a way that I thought was acknowledging the joke, but when Pizza challenged him on that in a way that I originally thought was taking the whole thing too seriously, Vulgard goes and calls it a reaction test, which is just . no. I don't believe that it was.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am going to be AFK for a while, the activities involved will be:

Sleeping
Reading chronologically
Isoing
Meta diving someone before rendering judgment if I am pretty sure theyre a wolf

Then I will return.

I am asking people to take my opening posts so far on D2 absolutely 100 percent seriously.

I am not doing a gambit or a bluff.

If you do not take me seriously it will affect town's ability to win this game in a severe way, meaning I will die, and I won't be the only one, and that's several townies down the shitter at once at end of day.

[Renata]

I read it more like I tend to be wrong on this type of read so you're probably town

Realized that halfway through my response, yeah. If you're right, we're back at the AtE which I don't think is very productive. See my other comment though. It was somewhere in response to Pizza's 297.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I asked you questions and you do not answer them like you are trying to convince a fellow townie of your solve, we WILL NOT see day three together.

[Csargo]

Csargo: all your posts look town to me, and you seem to mesh well with the thread. I'd like to know what your reasons for wolfreading HK are/were.

none of this doesn't make sense so sure.

I'll share my town reads if/when I arrive at them, there's a slight niggling of something on Ender I think is positive but I'm sitting on that for the time being.
I don't believe in towntells because I think any wolf worth their salt can towntell, like you said in 189 only replace derp/dumb with town or wolf at your leisure.

I don't like the bolded, always feel like stuff like that seems made up to me.

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

I find the end of this quote just weird. It's not like "I think you're a woof" and more to me like" I want you to think I think you're a woof" or like a gotcha type deal? It was just odd phrasing to me.

Plus a lower level of content from hk than I've been accustomed to imo, but they already explained that.

I didn't really push it, except a comment about the about the above quote that was semi-serious. These are things similar to stuff that's bothered me before about hk, and I'm always wrong, so I didn't really do anything with it. Just focused on other people.

[Visor]

Hardclaim survivor

Btw

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I did not name you as a suspect, and asked you no questions, pretend I did.

In case I town read all my suspects one by one, your name might come up.

Stave off a death by showing me your town solve and CONVINCING me you believe it.

Under 11 hours remain.

[dyachei]

Realized that halfway through my response, yeah. If you're right, we're back at the AtE which I don't think is very productive. See my other comment though. It was somewhere in response to Pizza's 297.

i guess I dont expect everyone to always be productive with every post?

[dyachei]

Hardclaim survivor

Btw

i see

[Askthepizzaguy]

23 sorry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

48 hours here, derped it as 24 for a sec.

[Renata]

Hardclaim survivor

Btw

lulz
@Montmorency What was your thought process that made you ask Pizza if I might be being coached?

[Renata]

i guess I dont expect everyone to always be productive with every post?

Productive to talk about, I mean.

[hollowkatt]

Particularly I do not believe that kill happens when ladd is scum. I have no other basis to townread Ladd at the moment, but I have reading to do so I can get there.

Taffy seems okay from what I saw of day one, but I will look again.

If Vulgard is town the reason for the kill is almost certainly that it was a PR hunt, because his reads were therefore not scary.

if you'd be so kind as to elaborate on your first comment there I'd appreciate it because I'm not seeing how you make that connection

[hollowkatt]

sure

Amy read is based almost entirely on tone atp. I have played with her many times and have hydra'd with her. I think my read on her tends to be better than most people's read on her.

Vulgard I think has approached this game in a very villagery way. I find his solving villagery.

Visor is pretty lackluster this game. Not sure if it's because it's a casual game or if he's a wolf. I feel like visor, when he's villaging, has these like...bright moments of insight that I haven't really seen this game

Ender was counterwagon to a villager and that's enough to put him on a short list. I suck at reading him

vote: dya

[hollowkatt]

i'm dead tired today (kiddo is sick and woke me up in the middle of the night and did not want to go back to sleep) and sick. I will ask you stuff but it might not be tonight

legit. looking forwards to our inevitable conversation

[Renata]

Pizza reason for trying to kill Ampharos EoD please.

[dyachei]

why are you so...calm...this game hk?

[hollowkatt]

They did feel extremely obv town to me, but based on thread tone that doesn't seem to have been a wide-spread feeling. Not in writing anyway.

Please specify why you think their reads list wasn't a reason to die.

if he was right locking those reads into place with people who, if town, are smart enough to start with the list and start pressing then he's worked hard to clear a few people who are chops the wolf team would like to get, and impugned people the wolf team would like to keep safe.

I guess it would have to come down to whether or not the wolf team thinks they could out play his list, or if they kept him alive, outplay him. I tend to think if you have a player who's right, and is hard to eliminate that you want to work to mitigate them not enshrine their reads for perpetuity.

[Montmorency]

Montmorency: towards EoD I got the feeling that you were moving your vote around just to see the response and I thought that was towny in a "I'm not sure which one of these (if any) is a wolf but let's see if we can force wolves to show their hand" way.

Dirt-common strategy that most players probably participate in at least some of the time. I do it more deliberately than many, but as either alignment.

I'm not too keen on doing busy-work as dictated by someone who I think is scum.

The read is simply that you are lacking in spontaneity. There is a spark you tend to have when you are town that I've been good at seeing in the past even when other people are calling you a wolf, and yesterday was very pro-forma. I think in part it must have been deliberate (all those "this is a wolf tell" things), but there's nothing aside from that that feels free. You're running on rails.

Admittedly, Pizza does feel unusually restrained to me. Not in terms of activity level but in the way he relates to players and in the opacity of his thread goals. I would expect whatever he is trying to achieve to be more obvious/telegraphed than it has.

It could after all just be part of his stated SOD gambit of keeping his cards closer to his chest than usual (though we know now that later on he'll fullclaim). I've seen him take the all-business approach on one other occasion just like this, but unfortunately I don't remember the context or alignment.

Renata is one of the last people I expect needs coaching as any alignment.

Because she genuinely seems to have come into the game cold at EOD, and as maf would have availed herself of scumchat's advice. There is at least potentially a way to read her approach as OOT-informed. But as with Visor the alignment of the counterwagons will be most indicative. I do wonder if anyone else got that impression.

[hollowkatt]

Hardclaim survivor

Btw

I'm obligated to vote you now
vote: visor

[hollowkatt]

why are you so...calm...this game hk?

in the last year and a half or so I've eaten two bans, gotten several warnings, and several "off the record chats" with people I respect urging me to take a chill pill so to speak.
after tryharding for several games over the spring/summer and realizing it was negatively impacting my game I decided to do a 180 and try to be as unflappable as I could be, try to make fewer, but more insightful posts, and work more closely with others instead of shouting about "my solve" and pushing solo on people.

That's not to say I don't make pushes on my own, or come up with my own ideas and thoughts, I still do that, I just find myself less often bashing my head against a wall because it gets me nowhere.

[Renata]

if he was right locking those reads into place with people who, if town, are smart enough to start with the list and start pressing then he's worked hard to clear a few people who are chops the wolf team would like to get, and impugned people the wolf team would like to keep safe.

I guess it would have to come down to whether or not the wolf team thinks they could out play his list, or if they kept him alive, outplay him. I tend to think if you have a player who's right, and is hard to eliminate that you want to work to mitigate them not enshrine their reads for perpetuity.

It usually seems to work the other way. Gone is forgotten.

[dyachei]

I feel like you're missing your village aggressiveness. I don't think you've really pushed your reads that much this game

[Csargo]

Question posed for everyone who would like to assist me today:

1) Who do you believe did the best solving on day one out of everyone, in terms of process and likelihood of being right

You, mostly agreed with you woof leans, except vulgard.

2) Besides your own suspicions list and town leans, which other player's reads this game would you sheep if you had to sheep someone? Including Spooge.

Currently Taffy's look very similar to where I'm at now

3) What was the basis of the suspicions on Logic

4) Who on that wagon are wolves, including "none" or whichever names you wish.

3. Bad opening, continuous pressure leads to more negative opinions/responses and no optically worse candidate, something along those lines. Probably people wanting to save ender/ampharos as well

4. everyone but vulgard, cape, taffy, maybe visor. I don't get visor currently

[hollowkatt]

It usually seems to work the other way. Gone is forgotten.

except that here it is not and the reason is that we're all highly skilled players who aren't going to forget about the recently dead. Come 3-4 days from now if we're still playing then sure but I don't know of anyone who would ignore the most recent NK reads list.

[hollowkatt]

I feel like you're missing your village aggressiveness. I don't think you've really pushed your reads that much this game

that's correct I haven't really pushed my reads much.
as far as being less aggressive I'm trying to find that line between aggression and antagonism.

[dyachei]

that's correct I haven't really pushed my reads much.
as far as being less aggressive I'm trying to find that line between aggression and antagonism.

So you can understand my concerns about you

[Visor]

Fwiw I think HK is doing fine

[Visor]

Hardclaim Masons with csargo

So you can take that feather out of your cap bronanas

(The other post was just a joke for @Winston Hughes)