Casual december game

[Totally not Taffy]

Taffy is my top town.

I would not have voted Logic yesterday had I been around at EOD, but I wasn't. It became increasingly obvious toward the late hours of EOD that Logic wasn't a hit and people should've switched. Some did. Ladd in particular changing his vote is a good look for him imo considering how confident he was before, I think he could've kept pushing for that wagon as a wolf.

I feel roughly equal about the chances of Amy and Ender being wolves, except I like the wagon composition on Ender more. I think dya is town, I think ladd's vote switch was towny, I think Csargo has been towny. I have Montmorency in null but he voted on both Amy/Ender so his presence on the Ender wagon is kinda whatever. The Amy wagon has a lot of people I have no read on, I just have a bad reason to call Visor town from his day 1 treatment of ladd but I don't even believe in it very strongly so I'm just going to outright drop it.

Tell me about Dyachei because until you said this I thinking she fit into many possible scumteams.

[hollowkatt]

Given that even I have both of them in PoE I do not agree that there's anything spicy about that solve. I think the bolded is very sketchy reasoning, just because it doesn't matter to you who Spooge was doesn't mean it didn't matter to the wolves (unless you're one of them). And it's not a fear kill but it might have been? That's waffly.

From my perspective, one of the most remarkable things about Spooge's reads list is that he had you as a top town, and even had called you obviously so. This is part of the reason you gave for voting him, you didn't feel you had done anything that warranted that. Great. But now you're explicitly not mentioning the option that wolves killed Spooge so it would be easier to push you today? When you were very much aware or his read and several people are scumreading you? That doesn't look town to me.

Renata even very helpfully sets you up for it (I hope I got these in the right order):






Look at how you're both dancing around this conclusion without mentioning it outright. To me this looks like wolves killed the player hard townreading one of them and are now hoping town will sheep that read.


Vote: Hollowkatt

I do not believe in antagonising my scumreads, you are a great person who I would love to play with again in the future.

nothing you've written here makes any sense at all and is ascribing several positions to me that I clearly did not take, nor did I ever hint, intimate, or otherwise allude to "luv was killed to make me look bad" like wtf?

you're not antagonizing me you're just not making sense.

[hollowkatt]

I'm still catching up from the over night posts but I saw that one on "current page" and wanted to call it out as being bs

[Cape90]

Alright, let's give this the shake around

Kagemusha:

Ok. Let us see. I have not played mafia for i don?t remember how many years and some of you i i know, most i do not.So far i dont get much wolfines from the thread. The only thing really poking my eye is why Monty ignores to answer Taffy?s question about roles and knowledge, maybe you just missed it? What town needs is more talk from more people. More the merrier, so maybe poke some action? Vote: Csargo How are you old buddy?

I know this is technically not the first post, but I will treat it as such. It's not a bad start admittedly I suppose. But also just kind of meh from most of what has happened that far into the game, only pointing out 1 thing.

Ok. Thanks Taffy! Seems i overlooked the answer which i thought Monty overlooked. Sounds like something from mafia game from Geriatric ward.

The one thing Kage pointed out ended up being just a misunderstanding on Kage's end.

I hope you brought your rope and pitchfork with you. Certain amount of bloodthirst is in order to flush mafia out. But let us talk first and start hanging in a bit: Vote: Renata How has the world treated you all these years we have not played mafia together?

Talks to Csargo, votes Renata randomly

More filler going with the easy talking route of formalities, specifically talking right to Visor.

I dont have anything to point my finger into yet. Hope more people would chip in and talk.

This is Kage's last post of day 1. So Kage's day 1 entirely consisted of rando voting and doing nothing. Cool.

So the readslist that Kage made in 1152 is the first material that Kage has posted out.

So I am in the scummy tier because... I made some bandwagon votes. Wowee. A lot of these reads come from votes that players have done in the games. Some content involved but for the most part, not really. There is something to be said about documenting all the votes in chronological order though. I would call it pretty atypical play and pretty bad play as well :). Oh and you had pretty bad votes day 1 as I mentioned so LOL.

After reading today?s posts as well. Im gonnavote: Hollowkatt. You seem to be all over the place, so much that it seems like you are just being active for sake of activity. Can you share your top suspects and give reasoning for why?

Okay a real vote for HK being all over the place and posting for the sake of posting. Then asks HK for top suspects and why. The ol' true classic rinsed and repeated reasoning that I have seen a million times.

Hollowkatt has so far voted ATGP, luv2spooge, dyachei and Visor, but i have not seen any attempt of case or building pressure against any of them.

Slightly more explanation here and meeeh

I think you hit the nail in the head there. Well said.

and yeah basically says that HK's pushes have been "hollow" which feels a little ironic considering, i don't know, your whole day 1. But maybe your just bad at day 1's.

I will review HK and see this for myself since it doesn't necessarily bring up instances, making Kage not exactly influential.

[Vulgard]

i would love for you to elaborate

in the meantime im going to be gone for a bit because irl is royally pissing me off rn and i don't want that to spill into the game

You give no real reads in that post. Everything has a conditional.

Your townreads on Renata/Visor/Pizza only apply if Ender isn't V, because if Ender is V then "the game is hard" or whatever. Funnily enough, your catch-up post also doesn't contain any attempts to solve Ender.

You have a townread on Montmorency, but you pass it off to Visor for a "sanity check," implying you don't really believe in it and want Visor (or another townie) to back you up.

You have a V read on ladd, but that one looks contrived (it makes a lot of assumptions about whether or not he would be pushing certain people) and you immediately undermine it by saying you are bad at reading ladd.

You "don't want to re-evaluate your Cape townread," but you also don't... say what the read is. Admittedly, I could go back to verify myself, but it'd just be a pain.

You say that my thoughts are hitting your brain in a weird way and you have no alignment read on me as a result. ...Okay, I guess. Then you immediately vote me because I accused you? You ask me a question, but before I even answer it, you just vote me. Guess me voting you immediately cleared everything up and I am a wolf now?

You have no wolfreads. All you offer is a vague group of four people and a statement that "you would be surprised if there isn't a wolf in there." Then you say the group could potentially be larger. So really, even that group isn't something you're constructing to solve the game, it's not even a PoE, it's just a broad stroke you're painting a huge number of players with.

You then ask Ender if he would like you to re-evaluate some of your reads. ...What reads? You have none that you truly believe. All of them are conditional. The question seems fake. This tracks with your idea that the game is difficult if Ender is town, and therefore your reads might be wrong, but you don't have any strong reads in the first place, or at least not ones that are substantiated in the slightest. I don't know how you're town and this is the question you ask Ender. You have no strong reads, this looks more like you feel obligated to engage with Ender. The end of your catch-up post even implies that you already believe that Ender will flip today either way:

i feel pretty decent about all my strong townreads and i'm not really gonna worry about that side of things unless the game gets hard (read: ender flips v LMAO)

You don't say this if you don't think Ender flips today. So.

That's why I wolfread your catch-up posts.

[Vulgard]

Tell me about Dyachei because until you said this I thinking she fit into many possible scumteams.

I had them written down as "town chillin'."

Pretty dubious reasoning, not going to lie. Also bias from them townreading me and doing so correctly.

But it's there.

[hollowkatt]

Dya Visor Vulgard Ender with a side bit of Amy sus I can't let go of rn.

basically yes

[Csargo]

Thank you! How do you feel about his posting today? Do you think I should back off?

I realise in replying to this post that I left you off of my list of people I would be willing to sheep. @Askthepizzaguy

I feel meh tbh. luvs readlist being weird I can see that. Talking about why luvs was nk I don't think ever goes anywhere that leads to a correct assumption, there's too many possibilities imo. I'd like to know why hk called ender town and the reasoning behind it. The series of posts that led to that conclusion. No idea what to make of the dya back and forth.

Do whatever you want Taffy, I don't absolutely believe 100% that hk is a woof, because of what I said before, add in the trying to shift playstyle and RL stuff from hk. I have a pretty low confidence in my read there.

[Totally not Taffy]

Sidenote: dyachei continues to be completely out of wolf range IMO. Good to see. I would actually be surprised if dya is a wolf

What is Dyachei like as a wolf that you're not seeing here?

[hollowkatt]

@Kagemusha why do I need to build a case or vociferously push someone I suspect? Why isn't voting for them enough?
Like sure if all I have are naked votes ask me why I'm voting, or vote me and say something about it, but your push is predicated on some kind of "do work" metric that frankly I could not possibly care less about.

And I've given reasons why I suspect people, not my fault you're either not reading them or don't think they match up with your arbitrary metrics.

[Askthepizzaguy]

did pizza ever answer my question? @Askthepizzaguy

I have been super busy elsewhere. i will find it.

Hang on, I'm here to do the thing.

[Cape90]

did cape get got or did he swerve correctly after getting got

I guess I have been wondering myself why HK never actually pushed me literally after this. Whatever swerved correctly means here because it still implies that "I got caught".

136 = HK's Pizza vote

sure why not

the only semi-solid read I currently have is you're weird and I'm not sure if I trust you. I remember you opening weirdly in a mash maybe it was and you flipped wolf and this opening reminded me of that opening, which is why I voted for you.

Yeah I remember

The Pizza vote did have more legs then Kage was letting on with this and the whole meta read thing.

I would have also brought up

the thing about pizza I'm noticing in this game is he is almost entirely relying on mafia theory rather than exploring why players have said the things they've said. For example when he suses Ampharos it's about "wolfy phrasing" not necessarily about what Ampharos was talking about.

Likewise with Ender it is more about "what would a wolf do in this situation" not "why is Ender doing what he is doing" and on D1 that's not a super bad approach to the game. Aim a wide net and hope to catch something in it. As the game progresses though it starts to lose effectiveness.

I think Pizza can do this as town or wolf and unfortunately there aren't really context clues to indicate which team he's playing for. If he's town the wolves are likely laying low, trying to skate through today and working on a plan to eliminate him at night.

If he's a wolf the rest of the wolves are staying out of his way and letting him run the show. I think the best I'm going to do is judge him on results. Where does he vote, how do the wagons he's on flip, how do the wagons he is not on, or not interested in flip, that kind of thing.

But it does seem like a more generalized statement on Pizza's wolf/town game. Also the post in entirety does feel towny for HK

I am assuming with the luvs vote, HK didn't like luvs' list according to 529 so i think that's where 531 comes from but I am not actually too sure. Later on HK posts 699 which I believe makes my suspicions true about the why I believe. Even more progress confirming my confirm 893 though I just do not really get why wait so long.

Even though I think HK is usually a pretty simple read and they are probably town for some of the thoughts they formulated this game

why not though? like at some point if you're town and you're convinced that someone else is reading you wolf when they should, by history/experience/whatever, be reading you town or at worst null isn't the logical conclusion "this person isn't pushing me in good faith"?

Like sure you said you've never been "so confident" in someone elses ability to read you but Logic appears to be stating Visor should be able to do that correctly (intimating So Confident) which makes that leap to "visor is a wolf" more of a legit conclusion than what you're arguing.

if he was right locking those reads into place with people who, if town, are smart enough to start with the list and start pressing then he's worked hard to clear a few people who are chops the wolf team would like to get, and impugned people the wolf team would like to keep safe.

I guess it would have to come down to whether or not the wolf team thinks they could out play his list, or if they kept him alive, outplay him. I tend to think if you have a player who's right, and is hard to eliminate that you want to work to mitigate them not enshrine their reads for perpetuity.

I don't think any wolf team takes a shot at pizza last night because nobody knows if a doctor exists. doctor, if you exist, shut the fuck up no you don't

anyways, back to my train of thought. If you're a wolf the best play last night is assume there is some kind of protect and assume that protection is on pizza, then go from there. Tonight I expect pizza to die, so does pizza

well yeah logic is dead town, you're obvs not going to say you're a wolf, and that leaves vulgard and taffy. Neither of which I'm remembering well or impressed by (which I guess is saying functionally the same thing)

Ender/Visor is a spicy solve and I could see that. I guess the big question is with a player list this stacked why did luv die first?
I don't feel like it's a fear kill, luv was an alt of someone that knows a lot of us and I don't particularly care who they are under the mask, but if someone did know it could turn into a fear kill.

Their reads list doesn't seem like a reason to die. could just be a weird kill to throw off the scent as well as getting rid of someone they were unlikely to get chopped during the day.

Even with some of that, I do find the luvs sus progression to be strange.

dya vote is because HK probs doesn't like dya's reads 945 along with

interesting b/c that's where I'm at with you. Not sure what your schedule looks like but I'm about an hour from putting my kiddo to bed and then I'll be thread parked for a while. you can preload questions for me if you'd like just @ me

I find it rather weak so I can agree there.

sure, I guess.

and if I turn this around and say "dya isn't playing like anything I've seen them play before" your response is going to be "illness, kiddo, life" (in a nutshell anyways) and I'm sure you could see how I could respond with "so you can understand my concerns about you" to which your response, if you're town, is going to be "look, context is important please judge me by my content" or something to that effect.

Kinda feels like we could be talking past each other not with each other, but that is also a function of me not being here approx half the day D1 as well as our non-aligned schedules.

I think I can find you town if you are and I think you can do the same for me.

This is an interesting post on dyachei...

Anyways, as far as Visor goes, again, there is

Ender/Visor is a spicy solve and I could see that. I guess the big question is with a player list this stacked why did luv die first?
I don't feel like it's a fear kill, luv was an alt of someone that knows a lot of us and I don't particularly care who they are under the mask, but if someone did know it could turn into a fear kill.

Their reads list doesn't seem like a reason to die. could just be a weird kill to throw off the scent as well as getting rid of someone they were unlikely to get chopped during the day.

which I just brought up. As well as the read in 949

but it does feel slightly jokey in 951

If HK has anything to add, feel free. I don't think there's anything to be said more about luvs obviously but updates on any other ones would be appreciated

[Askthepizzaguy]

I believe I am about to die, so, if I don't answer your question that's why.

I did as much reading this game as I could with a divided schedule. Basically, family and hosting my game elsewhere ruined my ability to focus here.

I am overstressed about this, but at the same time, it is what I was randed. So.

I believe I am going to go with my original gut call here on Vulgard.

I'm pulling the trigger at the :00 mark. Wish me luck.

[Totally not Taffy]

nothing you've written here makes any sense at all and is ascribing several positions to me that I clearly did not take, nor did I ever hint, intimate, or otherwise allude to "luv was killed to make me look bad" like wtf?

you're not antagonizing me you're just not making sense.

Do you want me to try to explain it better or shall we leave it here?

[Visor]

Oh you're a desperado

Don't shoot vulgard

[Askthepizzaguy]

Legacy reads are, unfortunately, the same as before. I ran out of time to pore through everyone for stuff that could make them town.

I just dont have the time this game to do that kind of dive. Not during dinner, or putting kids to sleep, or writing flavor, or sleepin.

Legacy reads are outdated. Consider them all null if I am dead.

Do not sheep, use your own solving brain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh you're a desperado

Don't shoot vulgard

I am shooting vulgard 100 percent.

[Visor]

Shoot Amy or someone getting a lot of heat

Idk someone we need actively cleared

Ender, Amy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Unless Vulgard is mech clear, he is dead when I pull the trigger.

Speak up.

[Visor]

Aight gl us then

If not them make it someone you are 100% convinced are a wolf

[Askthepizzaguy]

Shoot Amy or someone getting a lot of heat

Idk someone we need actively cleared

Ender, Amy

Yeet Ender and Amy and Dyachei to sky daddy.

If two of those are misses, yeet Visor.

[Visor]

You can't kill me I'm invincible

[Askthepizzaguy]

Aight gl us then

If not them make it someone you are 100% convinced are a wolf

Never 100 percent.

Also, I have zero mech info on Cape90, obviously.

I was softing a night zero that no one would believe on purpose.

[Vulgard]

I believe I am about to die, so, if I don't answer your question that's why.

I did as much reading this game as I could with a divided schedule. Basically, family and hosting my game elsewhere ruined my ability to focus here.

I am overstressed about this, but at the same time, it is what I was randed. So.

I believe I am going to go with my original gut call here on Vulgard.

I'm pulling the trigger at the :00 mark. Wish me luck.

God, my legacy on Amy is going to be so bad if she's town, I'm sorry Amy if that is the case and you aren't even here to argue with me.

Probably kill Ender here? Or follow my case on Amy. Either way, I no longer think this is a bad direction. I think my case on Monty might have merit as well.

Wouldn't kill Taffy or Boquise. Probably wouldn't kill ladd or Visor, at least not right now.

Hollowkatt gut town, the argument with Taffy feels V/V.

Kagemusha feels isolated in thread and has an equally isolated process, but I don't actually townread it all that much and it's probably worth looking into.

Idk about Cape.

[Visor]

Never 100 percent.

Also, I have zero mech info on Cape90, obviously.

I was softing a night zero that no one would believe on purpose.

You know what I mean lol

Your top read if not ender or amy

[Vulgard]

Oh, you're a desperado? Don't do this. I'll sheep your reads. I think you probably have a better handle on this game than I did before and I think you are town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You can't kill me I'm invincible

I could.

But I don't really have a wolf case on you. So, I dont gamble and shoot that.

Wish I had reads on half the players, too. Just not enough time.

[Vulgard]

Shoot Ender or Amy imo. Personal preference is Amy because Ender probably always dies today regardless while I'm not so sure about Amy dying.

Just shoot a wolfread.

[Visor]

Glgl us

[Vulgard]

Shoot Ender or Amy imo. Personal preference is Amy because Ender probably always dies today regardless while I'm not so sure about Amy dying.

Just shoot a wolfread.

Actually I shouldn't be telling you to shoot a wolfread because I'm one of your wolfreads but please.