You NEVER told Dyachei or stated in any way that you had retracted your scum read on them, prior to you saying you were going to town read them because they kept responding to you even after you retracted your scum read.
The whole reason for the town read is false. Like literally impossible. Dyachei could not have reacted to the thing you claimed they reacted favorably in response to, because that thing does not exist.
There's nothing about Logic in that part of your iso either as it relates to Dya. If you said it, you said it on day two, long after all of this happened.
If I'm wrong in my chronology please let me know. It would not be the first time.
Look at how I'm responding to questions about my past actions. Look how Csargo did when I questioned him. You're strikingly different. One liner responses, no elaboration on anything, even aside from what seems to be a blatant contradiction in your own process.
Me saying "I gift you a scum read" is a scum read, and then "I return my gift to Dya" is me walking it back tbh. I also didn't state anything about Logic to Dya there because no one asked. At D1, and especially D1s where I am out of time and out of energy, I don't care for making any grand reasoning unless I get inspired.
I honestly don't care at all that I am different to you and others. If I don't have large words and paragraphs to explain myself then I won't invent them. I have explained to the best of my ability. I don't care if my process seems contradictory because I don't care for it to follow a straight line.
You are scum reading me because you don't understand my playstyle. Some stuff I can't explain well because I just do. This game will teach you that contradictions =/= scummy and that some people will not play in the way you expect/want them to. Or you're just scum and in that case carry on.
You have yet to respond where I am being aggressive tbh
tbh it sounds like something a savvy wolf would do if they wanted to look good especially in a lobby where they've already been D1'd by many of the same people before.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I am saying it isn't clearing for me
That's fair. Renata did try to bury Visor on D2 and is now trying to bury me, so maybe she is scum after all.
I feel more sure that Kage is not with ladd because that's a far weaker slot
I'm wondering why three wolves would pile on to save Amy who's really not been any kind of impactful, didn't show signs of being impactful, and generally was already scraping "disassociated wolf" reads from others in the thread. I feel like that would be antithetical to smart wolf play there. If someone not really contributing is getting sussed exerting effort like that to save them runs the risk of outing the whole team, yeah?
Because she was getting uh i don't know the English word
Like passive-aggressive/vindicative?
"I haven't done nothing?" was what she wrote to me after i explained the wolf read and considering she was a wolf it seems if we read the conversation that she was thinking that i was wolf reading her for the wrong reasons
Because she was getting uh i don't know the English word
Like passive-aggressive/vindicative?
"I haven't done nothing?" was what she wrote to me after i explained the wolf read and considering she was a wolf it seems if we read the conversation that she was thinking that i was wolf reading her for the wrong reasons
1st one to vote is Ender so hardly bussing a partner.
Dya (2): Ender, Vulgard
Taffy (1): Monty
Monty(1): HK
Csargo (1): Renata
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha
2nd one to vote Vulgard, who is confirmed town.
Taffy (3): Monty, Csargo, Ender
Dya (2): Vulgard, Renata
Monty(1): HK
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha
At this point Csargo and Ender move to Taffy, creates a question mark on Csargo. Renata 3rd on Dya which still could be anything.Ender later reveals his play there.
Dya (4): Vulgard, Renata, Taffy, HK
Taffy (3): Monty, Csargo, Ender
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha
At this point Taffy and HK move to Dya. Could be self preservation for scum Taffy, but this here shows i was wrong about HK. Would he in any real universe make a deciding push against his mafia partner? Rock solid town move.
If Taffy's a wolf, most likely the best indicator is that they've all but disappeared. There's nothing wrong with their tone, their arguments insofar as I've been able to read are logical. I'm lacking interactions with Dyachei or Ladd; if that keeps up through day two then maybe there's something there but I haven't looked yet.
I'm wondering why three wolves would pile on to save Amy who's really not been any kind of impactful, didn't show signs of being impactful, and generally was already scraping "disassociated wolf" reads from others in the thread. I feel like that would be antithetical to smart wolf play there. If someone not really contributing is getting sussed exerting effort like that to save them runs the risk of outing the whole team, yeah?
Amy wasn't a wagon when we all voted D1. Amy had one vote from Boq iirc.
Originally Posted by Sooh
I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.
And with her backing off today, it would make sense that you're number four. Especially given that you've been trying to link Dyachei to Amy, and the suggesting that Renata would be threadspewed from how we reacted to when you brought Asks' old sus back up.
Are you saying you think it's Boq/Renata ?
Originally Posted by Sooh
I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.
I'm still working on the voting analysis but assume you're right for a hot second. That would put the POE squarely at:
Csargo, Monty, Amy, Kage if you really do think the Dya wagon is pure in which case we kill all of them yeah?
I'm not following. I didn't say the dya wagon was pure, I said we have to take bussing into consideration (i.e. not pure). Just like, you know, Pizza spent 1000 words explaining in the quote.
Originally Posted by hollowkatt
Wolves couldn't have expected vulgard to nuke Ladd. Nor could they have anticipated a dogpile on dya to end the day. I think, like ender and csargo do, that post ladd nuke wolves were scrambling to figure out what they could do. Do you think wolves were busing Dya and if so who are the wolves in this bucket: Taffy, HK, Boq, Renata, Ender?
They had 36 hours to adjust to the threadstate, which was increasingly anti-dya, with few alternatives put forward as serious votes. This is surely enough for bussing to be possible.
If you don't know who I suspect out of that list of names, you should reread my posts since D3.
Like first you call out Amy and Kage for being off wagon (while the taffy wagon was you and csargo) and now you are saying post ladd was a bus-like situation. I've got a bad feeling about you
Are you going to pursue forthright misunderstandings every day then?
At no point did I connect Amp's or Kage's alignment to their wagon position D3. If you'll recall, I did earlier highlight that they had each ended off-wagon on one of the prior days, so it was remarkable to see them both doing it.
As Pizza explained, and I agree, it doesn't have to be a bus situation, we just have no choice but to read it as one, particularly in the context of the D3 gamestate, which to repeat was much more restricted than that of early game. Therefore, voting dya D3 does not confer town-cred, unless you can find a single player who made the dya wagon happen above others. They, at least, get a pass, but not a clear. To my awareness there isn't anyone who fits that description, other than maybe ender.
So stop wasting time on hard-defending Day 3.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
the question is if dya votes ender knowing wolf!ladd and wolf!csargo are already there
3 wolves on the same wagon.
I usually read this as town points for the unflipped player, which is csargo
That Logic is voted by Amy, Ender and Vulgard, only 1 flipping town, makes me draw back towards Amy being a wolf but I guess it could be pure, given that the counter wagon is a town (imo) and the second largest is a confirmed town too.
I think Csargo is town due to ladd and Dya already being on Ender. HOWEVER I can see why wolves would commit 3 wolves on 1 town wagon in hopes to save Amy, but that doesnt fit the timeline of votes (and Amy's wagon rising in votes). It also doesnt fit with occam's razors. Ladd and Dya are competent wolves. Idk who Csargo is, but he seems to be competent as a player. It is better to have at least 1 more wolf on the other town wagon (Logic). Otherwise wolves are boxed in. This makes Csargo also unlikely.
I've had the feeling that your run-through today has been makework, but this is a reasonable post, unbiased by the knowledge that I said it earlier.
Originally Posted by hollowkatt
I'm wondering why three wolves would pile on to save Amy who's really not been any kind of impactful, didn't show signs of being impactful, and generally was already scraping "disassociated wolf" reads from others in the thread. I feel like that would be antithetical to smart wolf play there. If someone not really contributing is getting sussed exerting effort like that to save them runs the risk of outing the whole team, yeah?
lol read my posts
Originally Posted by Boquise
wolf dya asks town visor to ask about random player x minutes away from eod.
This comes out from nowhere.
"hey i am a wolf and now i will bring up my teammate out of nowhere as the wagons are moving"
nah.
I make a note of this in my upcoming ISO, but are you sure you're not trying to pocket HK?
That means at least 1 of Amy and Taffy is a wolf.
Yes, and not very surprising.
Originally Posted by Boquise
in hindsight dya was a wolf being caught for the wrong reasons tbh
I think the reasons I developed were pretty strong.
Originally Posted by Boquise
this is a bit of a retcon on my kage/hk clearings because apogee was n1'd and what really stood out with his play was his ladd vote.
So I suppose Cape could have died for being correct somewhere
Cape was hard on ladd multiple times D2, and voted him at least once (I recall briefly during EOD).
Originally Posted by Renata
This makes no sense. Let me try again.
You NEVER told Dyachei or stated in any way that you had retracted your scum read on them, prior to you saying you were going to town read them because they kept responding to you even after you retracted your scum read.
Not so?
#419/38: Dya questions the validity (via Boq's approbation) of Pizza's suspicion of Vulgard's level of tilt; dya finds annoyance non-indicative and references own experience. Boq agrees but considers disproportionate annoyance scum-leaning in a vacuum. But Boq now wishes to rescind this impression of Vulgard as the latter has posted more.
#426: Boq tells Pizza he's rescinding the weak scum read on dya.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
NB: Highlighted text represents what dyachei himself was doing/saying, to prevent confusion arising from my format. I may have been sloppier this time around. Also, this doesn't include late-D2 dyachei activity because I don't have time.
AMP
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#355/70: dya comments "i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about" and Csargo asks if they mean Logic and Ender. Dya say's Amy.
#453: amy probably a light v read. it's mostly based on tone. I expect I'll continue to be able to read her and update this as time goes on. Amy responds with "thanks boss i'm happy willing resigned to help."
#458: Amy thinks Pizza confidence is villagery. Dya recalls that Amy said the opposite before. Amy said that was in reference to a different aspect, not confidence in worldbuilding.
#509: Amy Cape Vulgard all light town.
#552: Amy to Vulgard: i don't like how logic went straight to "visor is a wolf" without even trying to engage with the read on him
if someone i thought had a really good read on me (e.g. dya) was incorrectly wolfreading me, i'd do everything in my power to figure out where the read is coming from and whether it has a good foundation before i'd write them off as a wolf. Pizza calls this post "wrong but believable."
#745: Amy's reads: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general
#809: i wish I could explain why amy's tone is villagery to me in a way that makes sense to other people. bUt she's just kind of carefree here and i dont think she's putting pressure on herself to perform
#814: "dya probably shields me as either alignment here but i think she puts more effort into the read if they're wolfing here"
#824: In response to Renata's vote, "hello renata, i don't think we've ever met before but i think you entering thread and immediately jumping on ambient ampharos wagon momentum is a touch sketchy."Dya responds with "I didn't like when renata did that to logic"
#850: i mostly hate these wagons cuz i think logic and amy are v. Pizza comments on this in #1475 but hard to describe.
#918: Dya reads list responding to Pizza pressure includes Ender null but POE, Visor lackluster, and t-Vulgard. On Amy: "Amy read is based almost entirely on tone atp. I have played with her many times and have hydra'd with her. I think my read on her tends to be better than most people's read on her."
#1264: Amp reads post: "think my current gamestate perspective is, like. there's a big-ish pile of people that i was weakly townreading/nullreading yesterday, and i need to get a much better handle on them today, because i think the vast majority of wolves are in that pile. talking people like... dya boq hk kage. that's not a wolfreads list or even really the full suspects pool but i think i would be really, really surprised if there's not at least one in there."
BOQUISE
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#389: Dya greets Boq. Boq reciprocates.
#410/12/17/35/39/46/51: Dya complains about wall-posts and boq jibes "i gift you a weak scum lean tbh." Dya retorts that not liking wall-posts is not AI, but Boq feels "it is a sort of contribution i have seen wolves do tbh." Dya reminds him that he's seen townies do it too, but Boq believes that "yes but in general it is wolfy to whine about walls and do nothing else tbh because it is a super easy thing to do whilst you stay relevant in the thread conscious." Dya says that they haven't been doing nothing but whining about walls.
#419/38: Dya questions the validity (via Boq's approbation) of Pizza's suspicion of Vulgard's level of tilt; dya finds annoyance non-indicative and references own experience. Boq agrees but considers disproportionate annoyance scum-leaning in a vacuum. But Boq now wishes to rescind this impression of Vulgard as the latter has posted more.
#426: Boq tells Pizza he's rescinding the weak scum read on dya.
#603: Boq finds dya towny for persisting in the long exchange (see above) even though Boq rescinded the FoS already.
#719: After losing weak TL on Amp and voting her, town reads:
cape, vulgard
town leans:
visor, dya, hk, luvs
#720: Dya immediately reacts to the above with "how did the thread react and what do you think about it?" [I don't understand what this means.] Boq says thread didn't react and discusses impressions of Kage, Logic, and Visor, concluding with light FoS on Kage. Logic finds this exchange scummy for dya in #736.
#1245-84: Boq quotes a Vulgard post to dya asking if that's the one they disliked. Dya acknowledges it, describing the Vulg post as "wolfy backtalk." But Boq finds it TWTBAW. Dya responds that she thinks Vulgard was caught in a lie. Boq still doesn't believe m-Vulgard would be "textbook wolfy."
CSARGO
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#344: Dya asks Csargo about Logic meta since Csargo is SRing Logic. Csargo doesn't know.
#355: dya comments "i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about" and Csargo asks if they mean Logic and Ender. Dya say's Amy.
#540: Responding to a Logic reads posts that has one sentence mentioning that dya being comfortable is scummy, Csargo says "I could see dya, don't get visor tho. I don't know anything about town dya though, I don't think." Logic in #676 finds reason to TR dya.
#659: To Vulgard lamenting a wasted day if Logic is town: If Logic's town we just yeet visor for funsies. prob dya as well. Csargo currently believes m-Logic and t/t Visor-dya.
#1328: In the middle of commentary responding to Taffy: "No idea what to make of the dya[-HK] back and forth."
#1446: Csargo questions dya's play: "A significant portion of dya's iso is either defending/explaining why logic/ampharos/vulgard are town. Is this normal? Does town Dya just defend their townreads a lot? Dya called cape and taffy v, but I didn't really see much else."
HOLLOW (HK)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#839: "hey visor whats your read on hk?"
#852: "i basically dont remember anything hk has done this game and I think that's wolfy for him but I should have come to this realization with more than 5 mins to EOD". Pizza comments that this "can be distancing" on D2.
898: To Pizza's sketch of EOD wagons: "I'll be reading dya and boq today as I remember functionally nothing either of them said and both of them are extremely competent players on all sides of the alignment aisle"
#909: "I think hk is where I want to focus today. I remember nothing from him and he's usually pretty memorable". Pizza responds to this with "Do you have a larger footprint than that, or is this antispew?" See commentaries for dya's response. HK retorts "interesting b/c that's where I'm at with you." Dya puts off addressing that for IRL reasons.
#945-67: HK votes dya over her reads post #918 (see Amp subsection). In response dya asks HK "why are you so...calm...this game hk?" HK explains new meta in #952. Dya still doesn't like the lack of "villagery aggressiveness" and pushes. Further back and forth re: meta. Pizza find's dya's performance scummy for "hurdling."
#996: "if [Ender] a wolf at least one partner is in the Kage/Ladd/Dya bucket"
#1161: HK's shade of Pizza is "villagery read for early game."
#1419: HK votes Boq with the comment, "also dya is still on my chopping block today. Visor, Taffy, Ender, Cape, Csargo all probably not."
KAGE
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#1152: After reading D1 Kage offers his leans, with the following scummy (top to bottom): Monty dyachei Vulgard cape90 Hollowkatt [This is a common sweet spot to slot partners into]
Kage specifically found dya scummy for "(#751 second follow Ender)." This refers to her naked vote on Ender, third on the wagon, tieing with Logic. ["third vote is a wagon is scum" is an Old Gameroom superstition that Kage would be familiar with as an OG. On the other hand, ladd was clearly making a strategy around pushing Ender, one that dya was implementing, so this could also be Kage in on the deal.]
#1181: Renata questions Kage's case and vote on HK, and he responds: "Hollowkatt has so far voted ATGP, luv2spooge, dyachei and Visor, but i have not seen any attempt of case or building pressure against any of them"
MONTY
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#715: Dya tells Visor they didn't even realize I was in the game.
#1005: I ask dya about Amy (player Amy or daughter Amy?).
#1006: Reads: Ladd & dyachei have rolled mafia in Org games I've - many of us have - played in. I don't remember any meta. Null.
RENATA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#812: Renata greets dya right after voting Amp for switching to TL Logic.
#833: Responding to Amp requesting details on her sus of her: You feel detached, like you're just kind of watching the thread go by without engaging much, and I didn't like your approach to Logic though I can't quite remember why. Dyachei's take on you is interesting(?) and I'm considering it
#922: Renata finds a Vulgard post unbelievable from townie POV and dya asks why. #929/30/34/39/43 for an inconclusive exchange.
#1115/31: Pace Pizza shading dya for hurdling (see HK subsection), Renata: "I liked Dyacheis little sus of me, felt like old times, and disappointed she?s not halfway into a death tunnel already. [...] I think Dyachei?s defense kind of spews Amy town if Dya isn?t." Pizza votes dya soon after. Visor approves of the comment on dya-Amy spew.
#1199: Renata asks dya to elaborate on their t-Vulgard case in the context of some Vulgard post. Dya delivers a hedgy Vulgard read in response. She then suddenly reverses outright and doesn't like Vulgard's posting anymore. [In retrospect, dya posting "Idk that it makes me think vulgard is a wolf, but I'm not reading him as villager as much" right after presenting a wall concluding that Vulgard is town was a tell, the exact same tell as with ladd.]
#1584: In response to Csargo questioning dya's play in #1446 (see Csargo subsection), Renata susses dya: "My main takeaway from playing with Dya back in the day was that they as town would go very aggro on me (as town) a lot. The closest I ever came to being a town-led mislynch on MU was due to a Dyachei death tunnel. I?m not used to them being so soft, either on me (they basically haven?t commented on me at all) and I do read it as wolfy."
TAFFY
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#907: From reads list ("People I would prefer not to yeet today but have no firm read on"): "Dyachei: nothing you have done has stood out to me one way or another, the only reason you're not above Asks is that someone suggested a team with you and Visor yesterday and I liked it because it was the first suggestion that wasn't wholly made up of "awkward" people if that makes sense. Also sheeping Logic a little."
#1213: When Visor solicits reads on Taffy, dya says "gut says v." [This is very similar to ladd's scummy offhand D1 t-read of dya, a generalized scumtell.]
#1321: Taffy quotes a Vulgard reads post and asks for thoughts on dya, because until Taffy read that post she thought dya fit into many possible scumteams. [In two paragraphs the literally all of relevance Vulgard said was "Taffy is my top town" and "I think dya is town." This piggybacking by Taffy is bad right???
#1329: In connection with Cape finding dya completely out of scum range, and surprising if scum: "What is Dyachei like as a wolf that you're not seeing here?" Cape offers a long reply. Including their wall TRing Vulgard, even if the backtracking and some other behaviors are unusual for dya. Also: "I feel like dyachei's posts usually come off in their wolf game as a lot more mild with less actual effort put into them."
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
VULGARD
mEH
ENDER
#977: Reads: Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.
#1038: Reads: Csargo is an ehehhh with Dya/ladd/Kage just above.
meh.......
Commentary (D1): Dya first appears halfway through D1, fluffs with Vulgard, discusses bad feeling about Logic and null feeling about Pizza with Visor and Csargo.
In response to Csargo, dya mentions that Amy is her top pre-game concern. Agrees on Vulgard town with Visor.
Interactions with cape, leading to cape TRing dya.
During this time ladd, dya, Amp, and Boq, among others, are all active.
Of living players, Boq has potentially-performative exchanges with Amp and Boq. If either are AI, I think it's with Boq to a small-to-moderate extent.
Dya wishes they could read Ender better than null, judges Pizza to fit in both metas.
#659 decent for Csargo. Pizza approves as well.
Amy #745: uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general
Given that Amy basically replicated ladd's reads - or better to say ladd replicated her reads by early D2 (this quote is D1) - and he POEd her throughout his life, while dya's interactions on the surface feel like the most overtly associative and buddying of arguably any in the game, my feeling is that we see evidence of ladd-dya coordination around Amy but nothing really of Amy with ladd/dya. Amy displays no strategy vis-a-vis ladd and dya, despite the crumminess of her reads. The interactions do suggest the Mafia team were cultivating Amy as a mid-POE ML IMO, without Amy's input or participation. Even if we can't clear her because it's possible she was just open scumming with her team, it feels like a strange approach in combination with POEing her. Since if ladd gets m-Amy flipped before dya for bussing cred, it just draws attention to dya associatives and plausibly puts dya in the POE. Dya went out of their way to make assoc with Amy, including Rule of Three, and I believe it's antispew.
I think if Boq further flips scum, it's yet more evidence of a coordinated strategy of shaping perceptions around Amy without her inclusion. Like a patsy.
Commentary (D2):
Dya's response to Pizza shading their FoS on HK.
I have a POE larger than that but HK was getting almost no attention and I think that's a problem
I think visor and ender are also in the POE
Vulgard and Amy are likely v
Dya-HK assoc, such as they were, look decent for him, like his slot is an afterthought to dya. Voting dya, then voting Boq while maintaining dya as a secondary and rejecting Ender and Visor as candidates D2 (#1419) is good, but it's negated by both starting and ending on Visor (Town MVP at that time).
Csargo/dya/Ender/Taffy is a grouping of people who have staunchly townread me. I do townread them indepenedently, but I feel like their reads on me could be biasing me. Possibly a wolf in here but I don't necessarily want to go there; rn I'd say the wolf is between Csargo and Ender.
...
Interesting comment to Visor, in retrospect indicating PIS (dya knew that Vulgard was town):
Originally Posted by dyachei
if vulgard flips w, it clears pizza (not to mention having a wolf desperado is shitty)
if vulgard flips v, i dont think it changes much for me
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
In #1183 dya makes potentially their most detailed post of the game, casing Vulgard town. Ladd is currently all-in on Vulgard being town, and expresses so around the same time as dya (to name one instance). May be worthwhile to look more closely into how players related to Ender, Vulgard, and Amy in particular, as Mafia appear to have adopted a calculated collective approach toward each of them, perhaps as part of a long-term plan to shape the consensus POE.
#1199: Renata asks dya to elaborate on their t-Vulgard case in the context of some Vulgard post. Dya delivers a hedgy Vulgard read in response. She then suddenly reverses outright and doesn't like Vulgard's posting anymore. [In retrospect, dya posting "Idk that it makes me think vulgard is a wolf, but I'm not reading him as villager as much" right after presenting a wall concluding that Vulgard is town was a tell, the exact same tell as with ladd.]
^^^
This urges me toward hardclearing Renata, because this is clearly a slip by dya and it was the exact same flip-flop as wrt ladd later (in response to Visor's questions).
I'm only getting increasingly attached to a POE of Taffy-Boq. Most likely to be wrong about Amp. Kage remains a pure wildcard. I doubt this game can be solved without at least trusting HK and Renata, and probably YOLO with Csargo. Also keep in mind, Taffy-Boq-Kage-Amy would each fit into a separate category in ladd's big D2 reads post (#1579), with Csargo sharing a category with dyachei, who has flipped ofc.
Please read through the dya ISO for key interactions.
Thoughts on how Boq specifically fits in worlds: Mafia seemed to be coordinating on developing collective POE, and all of ladd-Boq-dya adopted strong, interactive, reads on Amy. Ladd quasi-tunneled Amy, dya constantly interacted with Amy in a mutually-buddying way, and Boq helped dya generate content (such as creating a team balance on Vulgard reads) while linking them to Amy. Alternatively, Amy could be doing an open-scum drag show (and there's no way Amy and dya would not have been aware of how many connections they were creating). I prefer the former scenario. Also, Boq had a lot of shallow mutually-supporting interactions with ladd (see ISO).
But there is some reason to treat them as anti-paired.
My teams for now (last two unordered):
Taffy-Boq
Taffy-Amp
Boq-Kage
Taffy-Kage
As I've laid out, there are good reasons to trust Csargo, HK, and Renata, great reasons to lock Ender, and I just flat-out refuse to believe Amp-Kage.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
I've had the feeling that your run-through today has been makework, but this is a reasonable post, unbiased by the knowledge that I said it earlier.
lol read my posts
I make a note of this in my upcoming ISO, but are you sure you're not trying to pocket HK?
Yes, and not very surprising.
I think the reasons I developed were pretty strong.
Cape was hard on ladd multiple times D2, and voted him at least once (I recall briefly during EOD).
Not so?
#419/38: Dya questions the validity (via Boq's approbation) of Pizza's suspicion of Vulgard's level of tilt; dya finds annoyance non-indicative and references own experience. Boq agrees but considers disproportionate annoyance scum-leaning in a vacuum. But Boq now wishes to rescind this impression of Vulgard as the latter has posted more.
#426: Boq tells Pizza he's rescinding the weak scum read on dya.
i meant that dya felt caught for the wrong reasons on d1 in their interaction with me tbh
nah i am not pocketing hk, but he and i have history.
We had a back and forth on D2 where I was voting him and then I decided to town read him based on his answers.
I pocketed HK hard in a recent scum game of mine, and in an even more recent game we were towning but I was unsure on his alignment. So I wanted him to show his teeth so I could make a read tbh
but like, given how dya really really really wanted HK to be yeeted, even threw his name into the ring at eod1 and got iirc Csargo talk about HK being a bit sketch, I think it is safe to assume HK is town tbh
In #1183 dya makes potentially their most detailed post of the game, casing Vulgard town. Ladd is currently all-in on Vulgard being town, and expresses so around the same time as dya (to name one instance). May be worthwhile to look more closely into how players related to Ender, Vulgard, and Amy in particular, as Mafia appear to have adopted a calculated collective approach toward each of them, perhaps as part of a long-term plan to shape the consensus POE.
#1199: Renata asks dya to elaborate on their t-Vulgard case in the context of some Vulgard post. Dya delivers a hedgy Vulgard read in response. She then suddenly reverses outright and doesn't like Vulgard's posting anymore. [In retrospect, dya posting "Idk that it makes me think vulgard is a wolf, but I'm not reading him as villager as much" right after presenting a wall concluding that Vulgard is town was a tell, the exact same tell as with ladd.]
^^^
This urges me toward hardclearing Renata, because this is clearly a slip by dya and it was the exact same flip-flop as wrt ladd later (in response to Visor's questions).
I'm only getting increasingly attached to a POE of Taffy-Boq. Most likely to be wrong about Amp. Kage remains a pure wildcard. I doubt this game can be solved without at least trusting HK and Renata, and probably YOLO with Csargo. Also keep in mind, Taffy-Boq-Kage-Amy would each fit into a separate category in ladd's big D2 reads post (#1579), with Csargo sharing a category with dyachei, who has flipped ofc.
Please read through the dya ISO for key interactions.
Thoughts on how Boq specifically fits in worlds: Mafia seemed to be coordinating on developing collective POE, and all of ladd-Boq-dya adopted strong, interactive, reads on Amy. Ladd quasi-tunneled Amy, dya constantly interacted with Amy in a mutually-buddying way, and Boq helped dya generate content (such as creating a team balance on Vulgard reads) while linking them to Amy. Alternatively, Amy could be doing an open-scum drag show (and there's no way Amy and dya would not have been aware of how many connections they were creating). I prefer the former scenario. Also, Boq had a lot of shallow mutually-supporting interactions with ladd (see ISO).
But there is some reason to treat them as anti-paired.
My teams for now (last two unordered):
Taffy-Boq
Taffy-Amp
Boq-Kage
Taffy-Kage
As I've laid out, there are good reasons to trust Csargo, HK, and Renata, great reasons to lock Ender, and I just flat-out refuse to believe Amp-Kage.
this makes me feel better about locking in Renata. I was getting a bit miffed because she was trying to bury Visor too and he reacted. And because in my last town game, a scum player did tunnel me through most parts of the game (which is rare). However I found him as scum and I found the town player who tunnelled me too, and Renata is closer in her approach to the town player than the scum player now gth.
i think people who havent played with me misunderstand my approach
on D1 i do casual reads and poke around, to develop reads. It is by D3 I can start solving by flips. My reads are generally weak. I solve through laying out the puzzle pieces and see what fits + adding in player psychology and my assumptions.
I'm still working on the voting analysis but assume you're right for a hot second. That would put the POE squarely at:
Csargo, Monty, Amy, Kage if you really do think the Dya wagon is pure in which case we kill all of them yeah?
@hollowkatt the one link you sent me about Monty (the other one was about Ampharos, not Monty, maybe you linked the wrong one). I'm not really following your suspicion. Monty is saying the Dya wagon looks pure somewhere apparently? But is advocating voting Taffy (on Dya out of self-pres) and Boquise (on Dya at end of day)? Is that it or something else? What is the world you think Monty is trying to go for?
I've had the feeling that your run-through today has been makework, but this is a reasonable post, unbiased by the knowledge that I said it earlier.
lol read my posts
I make a note of this in my upcoming ISO, but are you sure you're not trying to pocket HK?
Yes, and not very surprising.
I think the reasons I developed were pretty strong.
Cape was hard on ladd multiple times D2, and voted him at least once (I recall briefly during EOD).
Not so?
#419/38: Dya questions the validity (via Boq's approbation) of Pizza's suspicion of Vulgard's level of tilt; dya finds annoyance non-indicative and references own experience. Boq agrees but considers disproportionate annoyance scum-leaning in a vacuum. But Boq now wishes to rescind this impression of Vulgard as the latter has posted more.
#426: Boq tells Pizza he's rescinding the weak scum read on dya.
I had no idea what post 426 meant when I read it and dismissed it as some kind of in joke that I didn't get.
So that's not a contradiction. I'm left with trying to decide whether the fairly weak day one interaction was scummy in itself (while taken at face value) and whether or not the constant shading thrown at me toDay means anything at all. I have a big issue with the post where he goes after me for shoving Visor into an early grave. He is townreading Hollowkatt and Ender both pretty hard right now, and they were the other two wagons that came up on day two. So why scum-shade me for pushing Visor in particular? I can only think of one potentially legitimate reason, and I haven't seen him say anything that would suggest he was thinking it at the time. Just the bare assertion that being assertive and wrong is scummy. Which is kind of easy for scum to shade somebody on.
My insomnia is kicking my ass again today but I'm going to try my hardest to at least get through the rest of the Dyachei spew before I have to lie down.
You had one post yesterday where you shaded me for pushing Visor hard on day two. The other two wagons that day were people that you are townreading pretty hard right now. Tell me what makes you so suspicious about me pushing one townie wagon over a different one. What was in your head when you made that post.
Not going to respond on content until I get to the end but noticed confusion here:
#720: Dya immediately reacts to the above with "how did the thread react and what do you think about it?" [I don't understand what this means.] Boq says thread didn't react and discusses impressions of Kage, Logic, and Visor, concluding with light FoS on Kage. Logic finds this exchange scummy for dya in #736.
This is in regards to Boquise's bare vote on Kage. Boquise is questioned later (by someone I don't remember) on what he was doing there and claims it was to look for thread reactions. Dya then asked what he learned from that, basically. Boquise eventually points out a specific post from Kage he found scummy that prompted him to do this.
You had one post yesterday where you shaded me for pushing Visor hard on day two. The other two wagons that day were people that you are townreading pretty hard right now. Tell me what makes you so suspicious about me pushing one townie wagon over a different one. What was in your head when you made that post.
You are putting more strength into my sus than there is with your "so suspicious". I have even written in the middle of my sus on you that I have you as town lean, as can be seen in the read list i wrote. Though you were only interested in responding to my solving with snark.
I remembered that you pushed Visor and that he responded eventually by scum reading you back. That made me question my "Renata is town because she is pushing me rn" and I began to fiddle with whether your push is town indicative and scum indicative. Because this is something I have a history of overlooking. Hence why I out my paranoia and work with it, despite having you as a town lean in the middle of this by looking at the votes. At that moment i went from my memory.
I feel like you're not really reading the posts i write that aren't directed towards you.
Re: Casual december game
Originally Posted by Renata
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