13er summer game thread

[insomnia]

@Winston Hughes

broadie you gotta post a bit more today, ideally. and preferably with all your reads and stuff, how you saw the game etc

your only read that i can gleam (other than d1 reads, which i assume for anyone would mostly be outdated?) is a katze wolfread that you don't even want dead afaict

given wolves were apparently doing not too shabby, your position is prime for a wolf who would skate on their early villa cred and not fan the flames, hope you can understand the need for you to do more today

[nebjiamn]

uh i could have answered this properly before katze claim but i have no idea now

gotta look things over and i don't have the time rn

ignoring setup speculation, you actually believe the claim?

if yes, include setup speculation

no way kat is a PR lol

at least not a town one

[nebjiamn]

if i misread that and you intended it as "i'm not sure how to answer that because the claim confuses me" rather than "katze is town and it messed up my reads" then sorry and ignore me

[Cuthillius]

ignoring setup speculation, you actually believe the claim?

if yes, include setup speculation

no way kat is a PR lol

at least not a town one

idk bronana they could be vig

i have stuff to get done today ~urgently i'll be around tomorrow and actually think about it

[Cuthillius]

if i misread that and you intended it as "i'm not sure how to answer that because the claim confuses me" rather than "katze is town and it messed up my reads" then sorry and ignore me

i mean yes i meant it dichotomizes things

[katze]

imo its not rly worth arguing about, believe me or don't. im just claiming because it makes it funnier if i get mislunched

feel free to believe im just a vanillager fpsing that works too as long as you've got the right alignment lol

if u think im a wolf then go with god, its a chill game ur allowed to be wrong


speaking of which, im prepared to be wrong, but hopefully i'll make it amusing



11/50

[Achro]

me when people I tr think I am scum: well this sucks

lol

[katze]

me when people I tr think I am scum: well this sucks

lol

its okay my read on you has changed like 30 times this game and i think i probs overreacted the dya NK in hindsight. even if i still think its hella weird


too bad visor isnt here, he should have claimed his role imo


12

[Achro]

its okay my read on you has changed like 30 times this game and i think i probs overreacted the dya NK in hindsight. even if i still think its hella weird


too bad visor isnt here, he should have claimed his role imo


12

Visor should have probably read my posts and not tried to tell me I didnt try to save cape.

Anyway any uh questions for me or anything?

[katze]

Visor should have probably read my posts and not tried to tell me I didnt try to save cape.

Anyway any uh questions for me or anything?

honestly not really. i think id rather just sit back and watch you solve because "why are you alive" is. not a fair question to answer and im well aware of it and the rest of them i think you're likely to naturally ask yourself and answer if you're a villager anyway once you're less on the defensive and more on the solve grind yknow?

you asked earlier who i'd pair with you hypothetically, SK still seems like an obvious fit and #3 i can't on the top of my head feel like i can clear anyone of but im sure if i reread things with that pairing in mind i could probably take a few names off

but yeah im probs not voting tonight anyway, im not going to do some impulsive shit without letting everybody post at the very least, im calmed down now from the initial "oh shit im late" showing up to seeing dya dead. so you rly shouldnt worry that much about me snapping you im reformed



13

[Achro]

Well, solving is fun tbh.

I think given what I read yesterday and how you approached visor it just always FELT like you were never certain of Visor's alignment. The way you approached everything. So if you're scum gj I am fooled I believe.

Cuth same deal on multiple fronts, and hey if fooled no shame

leaves me 3/4 in the other group then.

I will say, as one last line of thought about me, is I believe SK/me is below my skill floor as scum dealing with partners. If you recall back to the serious care I took when wolfing with visorlash/rue/ruby/jack over days and days I think you will find I never had any sudden shifts or zany moments with any of them. But, that's the last I will speak of myself for awhile.

My initial feelings are I don't think I ever win this game if benneh is town, so kind of locking that in unofficially

then its 2/3 of the others

I will re-read the thread without iso and just get a vibe for how everyone interacted with known villagers and see if anything pops out.

[SilverKeith]

Going to a party tonight and getting wasted. Will be around tomorrow afternoon

Honestly I didn't want to post because I don't have anything to say currently. Or at least anything that y'all want to hear.

I don't even know where to start. Everyone could be a wolf here imo. I'm obviously the designated misslunch here and idk what to do about it because most of the time I clear myself by voting off wolves and I feel like I haven't had the chance to do that this game. I didn't want cape d1 and visor was my cw D2 even if I'd have prolly voted him there if I wasn't up against him. I'm not sure.

I think I should decide if I ride or die with Achro here first.

Then prolly one or two of my heavy pushers has to be town. This is benneh/insom/cuth. Don't think that's the team.

Then idk what to make of katze or Winston. Winston could be paired with most lppl if wolf. Katze not so much.

Anyways bbl

[Achro]

Going to a party tonight and getting wasted. Will be around tomorrow afternoon

Honestly I didn't want to post because I don't have anything to say currently. Or at least anything that y'all want to hear.

I don't even know where to start. Everyone could be a wolf here imo. I'm obviously the designated misslunch here and idk what to do about it because most of the time I clear myself by voting off wolves and I feel like I haven't had the chance to do that this game. I didn't want cape d1 and visor was my cw D2 even if I'd have prolly voted him there if I wasn't up against him. I'm not sure.

I think I should decide if I ride or die with Achro here first.

Then prolly one or two of my heavy pushers has to be town. This is benneh/insom/cuth. Don't think that's the team.

Then idk what to make of katze or Winston. Winston could be paired with most lppl if wolf. Katze not so much.

Anyways bbl

@SilverKeith hi. Earlier you said I am good at finding you as town. What games were you referencing when you thought about that?

[SilverKeith]

@SilverKeith hi. Earlier you said I am good at finding you as town. What games were you referencing when you thought about that?

I do not think I said that or at least meant that.

But I do think you have more experience with me than everyone in this playerlist bc you've played with town and wolf me as town in normal games. Don't think any other player here has that unless you count mashes or turbos

[Achro]

I'll check, maybe I am misremembering.

I don't think insomnia/SK can ever be aligned based off interactions eod1. Scum can get cute at times but I don't think scum SK fucks around there on scum Insomnia

willing to hear arguments, but thats where I am at rn

[Achro]

which means I am looking for the following teams atm

Benneh/Winston/SK
Benneh/Winston/Insomnia

I guess to be cautious I should re-eval cuth with fresh eyes, but every post I see from Katze is like 'town katze' so gotta trust something somewhere. Also both of the above teams are very STRANGE with wolf katze as a part replacing... any of those names.

Yeah fuck it katze lock town, if they got me they got me.

[Cuthillius]

good news if you're trying to worldbuild around me i think winston is like the only person left alive (apart from maybe you) who i could plausibly be a wolf with

[Achro]

good news if you're trying to worldbuild around me i think winston is like the only person left alive (apart from maybe you) who i could plausibly be a wolf with

Yeah, perhaps.

Quick question though @Cuthillius

At one point close to EOD, the vote totals were this:

Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth

You spent a lot of time defending Visor and saying Benneh was wolfy yesterday. But a little later you vote WITH Benneh, on SK, saying this:

vote: silverkeith

it's literally mechanics

katze(3): WH, Visor, cuth
Visor(3): Taffy, insom, Achro
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,

Cuth(1): SK

When these were the current votes from host, you switched from SK to Insomnia, a fresh wagon.

So your EOD is very 'Visor is lock v, don't kill' and I am like, okay got it.

and you have a lot of discussion back and forth with SK, so I agree you aren't paired with SK for sure.

I don't get it. What about Benneh's EOD made you not pursue him when he was a viable wagon when I offered to do that, which in turn put Visor in more danger because my vote was going to be on him? Walk me through your thinking process at EOD?

this is a bizarre way of framing it?? i don't think sk's posts have been fantastic either but i don't think his posts have been so terrible that he'd be being run up no contest if there weren't wolves propping him up for ?some reason?

Was OK with SK until EOD

okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

I found this case rather convincing and I was willing to go benneh over visor at eod, I was on benneh for a decent while even but despite him being a viable wagon you just… never voted there once at EOD. Voted visor before the claim, voted SK, voted katze (I think as a joke), voted Insomnia… but you never voted Benneh.

And I think Benneh may be wolfing.

So I am confused, and I need clarity. Like. A lot of it. Please?

Visor(4): Taffy, insom, Achro, WH
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,
insom(3): cuth, SK, Visor

Visor(4): Taffy, insom, Achro, WH
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(4): Dya, , Benneh, , Visor, cuth
insom(1): , SK

Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth

Some more random votes throughout EOD. That last one especially you had your pick of Benneh who you suspected a lot and Visor who at that point was LOCK TOWN but you started another wagon. IDGI.

[Achro]

i think it's plausible you could be w/w with sk

you only started pushing him sod2, after his posts eod1 were godawful, and iirc there was a decently strong consensus that he was quite wolfy by that point

would i ever yeet you before sk? absolutely not, but i don't see why it's super improbable

WHy not yeet benneh before SK? Who are SK's two wolf buddies if not me, if not you, and in scenario a benneh isnt. You are left with insomnia, winston, and katze.

I don't know cuth, I am feeling a bit set up right now. I typed the below before I read this post today but yeah.

I guess to be a bit more accusatory about it, and my apologies but it is LYLO, but you have come off as very thoughtful in the thread to me. I would think that you would like it if I kept my vote on someone you suspect and off of Visor. In fact, I would have 100% stayed on benneh if he was the counter wagon. Despite my outburst I am a big believer of compromise and I had no problem doing it on benneh, a read we shared, you would have effectively taken a vote away from the Visor wagon and probably could have enticed someone to bite over the vig claim. Certainly SK at least seemed in the mood to not die if nothing else.

Also, low key I thought you were going to die last night as most people seemed to have a favorable view of you. You were hot on SK's ass at EOD and ready to go, whereas dya was also fired up for SK but had a lot less influence over the game at large compared to you. I guess if SK is scum maybe that's just how the cookie crumbles.

But... idk, I'm your top town read, right? And you are pretty darn towny and I tend to go off the deep end sometimes on paranoia. I feel like we should work together on a joint wolf finding effort today. I really am having trouble finding wolf teams without Benneh on them, especially if we're both town in each other's eyes. Especially partnered with SK. I'd love you to at some point tell me more about these worlds and see if we can't agree on who to chop today.

I'm just a little bit worried that you've pocketed me. I'll review our interactions a little but yeah. Because I could see a world where W!cuth sees the vig claim and thinks to himself 'well, if visor survives atm he will either shoot me or achro, and it will confirm his claim and be very bad' so you start HARD defending him, which SK notes is weird (... it's a little weird tbh) and you two get into it. This makes a great deal of sense from W!cuth as it's a good hedge. If visor goes over, great, you were against the chop and you've set up the town counter wagon - SK or Insomnia given your votes, I think - to take the follow whenever LYLO is. If the other goes over, you've made visor re-eval on you and he probably shoots me because 'why not', you guys kill him, and it's at lylo with a few different players but wolves in excellent position.

Those puzzle pieces click to me atm for say, a Cuth/Benneh/Winston team


I believe this is post... 27. Used a lot, but that's alright, I'll try to wait to post more until you've had a chance to respond and everyone gives thoughts. Thanks!

[Winston Hughes]

ruhroh

i have some further bad news for my fellow townies (whoever you might be - i have no fucking idea at this point):

i've got a rehearsal tomorrow evening which will keep me out past eod, meaning i have to get my vote down ~6 hours early

[Winston Hughes]

if i had to call it now, i'd say achro/cuth/sk are the townies, making insomnia/benneh/katze the wolves

[Winston Hughes]

if not for my absence for eod, i'm pretty sure this game would end with me getting chopped

as it is, it probably ends with me picking the wrong player and them getting chopped

[insomnia]

wow that is a wolfy view

is it strictly PoE or do you have any reason to have us wolves?

[insomnia]

i think achro is a villager. it makes sense with how the game went down imo. ladd was one of the few that was fairly convinced achro was a villa just blurting his mind out and got cap'd. dya was also turning around and his emotions and thoughts make sense to me

cuth in theory would be a close second for a deep wolf position, but when re-reading i see a lot of posts that don't really make sense to me from wolf PoV and i just get a villagery feel from. ironically, his EoD where he voted for me with a lol or whatever for him not seeing the PR is probably one of the few villagery actions, because it rings of villa sass (idk if it's correct word, maybe self-righteousness?) where in a pressure filled environment a wolf getting called out like that would probably make him some sorta defensive. but the way in which he reacted feels like the villager self-righteousness

it's very hard for me to find a third villa here that i'd be confident on, so im hoping the odds for hitting a wolf if im correct on these two to get me through today

[Winston Hughes]

wow that is a wolfy view

is it strictly PoE or do you have any reason to have us wolves?

just off the top of my head

i am thinking now, though

i have to make achro town because if he's played like this as scum it's frankly stomach-turning - if he was to win as scum playing like this (in a casual game, no less) i would be genuinely disgusted

and if achro is town, the way the votes played out at eod yesterday mean that sk is very likely town as well - it just wouldn't seem worth the other scum's risk to get him chopped there, when visor was such an easy option

cuth i've been townreading since the latter part of d1 based on his tone and mood; i also feel like he genuinely tried to save visor yesterday

for the other three of you, while there have been measures of towniness in your tone at times, at no point have i ever really felt it was anything you couldn't easily fake

[insomnia]

im almost a little annoyed that everyone keeps saying katze has been solving or doesn't make sense as a wolf with anyone, so much so that im considering that im somehow not paying enough attention to his posts or the game (which is probably true)

it's almost so surreal to me that im half tempted to just put him as my yolo third villa and blame everyone if it's wrong, but that would be petty and not too smart coming from me. not sure how much i care atp about that though, im a tired washed playah

[Winston Hughes]

out of the three, you're the one i'd be least confident on

at this point i can't see voting beyond benneh or katze

[insomnia]

why do you think sk is a villa, winston?

[insomnia]

and if you are still stuck on katze, can you make a case as to why?

also, what do you think of the way he's getting treated? it is almost universal to me that everyone says he doesn't fit with wolves or that his solving was good

[insomnia]

- I like Achro's approach from a "try new things" perspective tho I think it's kind of un-achro-ey. Ftr I'd have taken off the list somene who I didn't want dead just bc I wanted to play more with em.

- I didn't like Taffy's vote towards Achro. It's the kind of explanation for a vote I give when I'm wolfing. Neither them asking for opinions on Visor/Achro so early into the game.

- I decided I wasn't going to really try to read katze today at post #60.

- I don't like Insom's read on ender (#62). I think there's some dissonance between what's he's stating and the importance it should have. Idk how to explaining.


why?

- katze is a wolf per post 70. Only partially joking. Also driving woat.

- I think ladd is kinda ok just based on him reaching some v reads which I don't follow but I feel like I should follow.

- Achro explanation towards the taffy thing is illegitimate and apocryphal which is town-indicative of him yesyesyes i do believe this mmhmm.

- I've changed my mind on Achro and I think he's a wolf based on 102. I feel like if Ladd is town, and ladd's buttons clicked when Achro went like "oh I have this idea but it's ok I wasn't really attached to it" and then Ladd townread him for it, this repeat of him explicitly not being attached to ladd's wolfread feels like an appeal to those same buttons.

Also I do not like that half the procesing I've done this game is Achro-centric, tho it makes sense since he's the person who has posted more.


I read this post before my mind made the connection that it was a post made by Achro which was mildly amusing

I now regret that katze and Achro are the two players I wrote the most about because I saw the thunderdome post so I've decided to go to sleep. I'm also sorry for the catch up formatting for this post.

potentially TMI-ish read


also too lazy to quote his progression on dya, but the gist of it is that he was relatively confident they were a villager for putting him in PoE and voting him, which just seems a weird confidence read on someone you claimed you don't have much meta with?

actually i might as well do it, 1 sec