1.x AI Faction Progression Thread

[^RaGe^]

Nice Saka expansion. In my games Saka usually advances westwards.

[gamegeek2]

1.1 seems to have done these things so far -

Nerfed the Sweboz
Severely nerfed Baktria
Slightly nerfed the Ptolemaioi
Stopped Makedonia northern expansion
Sauromatae & Saka expand rapidly early on
Pahlava carves out a consistent "Caspian Empire" and much better than before
Improved Lusotana & Getai expansion, fewer to no factions failing to expand - even Casse gets something.
Improved Romani so they don't get stuck in Italia anymore, instead they rush to Massalia and southwestern Gaul.
Improved Aedui, who always take a 2-1 province lead over the Arverni, with rare exceptions (like AS vs. Ptolemy)
Pontos often is able to carve out a nice empire

Things that need improvement

Hayasadan still always takes to the steppes
Saka/Sauromatae stall after rapid early expansion
Baktria is now very weak compared to before.
Arverni are utterly destroyed by Aedui, the fight used to go on for ages
Casse & Saba still weak, though I suppose this is historical
Carthage never really does anything until 220 BCE

[penguinking]

1.1 seems to have done these things so far -

Nerfed the Sweboz
Severely nerfed Baktria
Slightly nerfed the Ptolemaioi
Stopped Makedonia northern expansion
Sauromatae & Saka expand rapidly early on
Pahlava carves out a consistent "Caspian Empire" and much better than before
Improved Lusotana & Getai expansion, fewer to no factions failing to expand - even Casse gets something.
Improved Romani so they don't get stuck in Italia anymore, instead they rush to Massalia and southwestern Gaul.
Improved Aedui, who always take a 2-1 province lead over the Arverni, with rare exceptions (like AS vs. Ptolemy)
Pontos often is able to carve out a nice empire

Things that need improvement

Hayasadan still always takes to the steppes
Saka/Sauromatae stall after rapid early expansion
Baktria is now very weak compared to before.
Arverni are utterly destroyed by Aedui, the fight used to go on for ages
Casse & Saba still weak, though I suppose this is historical
Carthage never really does anything until 220 BCE

I agree with you on almost all of this, but the Sweboz hardly seem nerfed to me. They nearly always unify Germania before invading Gaul. And also, they're have been plenty of examples of the Makedonian rush north. In my campaign they reached the Baltic Sea. There is very little stopping them once they defeat Epeiros/KH. I think Baktria is much better. Instead of expanding west rapidly, they slowly take surrounding provinces and often go for India.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I think the overall faction progression is really good now in 1.1. Especially the KH has been fixed. No more Koinon Greece finally! Either Makedonia or Epeiros now come out on top 50/50.

The only thing that could need further nerfing is the Ptolemaioi / Seleukides balance and the Armenian urge for the steppe.

[The Persian Cataphract]

Actually, Bactria doesn't need to get any stronger; currently the problem with the Graeco-Bactrian faction is that it expands into the wrong way. It's not uncommon that they reach Persis proper, and this is not a huge offense but India should be the focus of the matter. The Seleucid-Ptolemaïc struggle should end with a strong Seleucid Syria, and with a weakened Egyptian heart-land; Pontos aptly dominating central Anatolia, and Hayasdan being the major power in the Caucasus and northern Mesopotamia. Saba needs some control, historically within the EB frame of time, they never reached as far as Gerrha or Oman... Or in the few crazy cases Charax.

But then again, these are all idealized situations rigorously following historical course of outcome.

[LordCurlyton]

Continuation of my Pahlava campaign. 212 BC.
Well my prediction about who would win in the AS/Ptolie dispute turned out to be worng, mainly because the AS began launching significant assaults against me once more, forcing me to retaliate. So I razed Antiochea, Mazaka, and Amaseia and killed several FM-armies. The Ptolies took advantage and have begun to push up the coast, though the un-razed AS cities are resisting better now that the supply lines are less. Of course, what Hellenistic monarch can resist taking potshots at me? Thus has the Egypto-Parthian War begun. Currently I am busy razing Egypt proper, having already razed Sidon, Hierosylma, Alexandreia, Memphis, Diospis-Megale, and Hibis. I plan on razing Paraitonion then returning home with my spoils, which has provided quite the boom, allowing me to start the advanced mines in many provinces. Conveniently the Ptolies are following behind and retaking the empty shells, thus preventing them from getting a massive influx of Apeleutheroi. Also, both the AS and Ptolies are at war with the Maksplosion and each have seized an island territory from the Maks. Of course, Maksplosion would not have happened had Epeiros not decided to take on one war to many. The Romani, Maks, AS (briefly), and Getai were just too much area for not enough military-economic might. The KH are undergoing a "resurgence" of sorts due to rebellion and took Amaseia after I let it revolt. They'd be crushed by now if the AS was able to focus its efforts.
I'm waiting for the inevitable Saba betrayal now that I share a border with them. Hopefully they'll attempt to pillage the weakened Ptolies.
I had a brief war with the Saka during which time they had Gava-Mazakata revolt to the Sauromatae, thus sparking their war and enabling me to get peace. Sadly I couldn't get to Gava-Mazakata before the Saka retook it, and now that is their capital so I can't buy it off of them. Here's hoping that Faction Heir is cheap to buy.... I've dealt with the Hai so other than that anomaly back East it only a little more westward expansion for me to meet the VC, which means I can relax and play around for a while.
Other than that there have been no major surprises. Carthage and Rome keep meekly attacking the other, while Rome has its hands full with Luso, Aedui, and now Sweboz. The Luso have done what they seem pretty good at doing nowadays, and that is kicking Carthage out of Spain.
Current diplomatic situation for me:
Allies: Saka (they were surprisingly receptive after I got peace), Epeiros, Sweboz, Aedui, Luso, Saba
Neutral: AS, KH, Sauromatae, Getai, Romani, Carthage, Casse, Aedui
War: Ptolies

[Tartaros]

War: Ptolies

Go for it!!

[PriestLizard]

Young Baktria of mine at its climax of power. Around 260BC I found myself in war with all three neighbouring factions (Saka, AS, Pahlava). While the AS seemed to be busy with the Ptolemaioi in the west, the war against Pahlava pushed me into a campaign against their small empire. Using some bold moves (counter-attacking their lands while they siege Baktra), Theodotos managed to conquer their two cities and destroy the whole faction.

It wasnt much of help.

Later in 255BC the AS continued their expedition against Baktria and sent a full stack (almost 4000 men [huge]), conquering Alexandreia-Ariana and Antiocheia-Margiane. As this was not enough, the Saka also attacked with an almost full stack of horse archers and footmen, sieging Baktra several times.

I really dont know how you can prevail as Baktria on VH (campaign map). As you can see on the picture above, I have a fairly good battle record of 25-2... even though I had some hard times against Pahlava and their horse archers. Still, I almost end up in war with all three factions arround me which seems just too much! Maybe I was too risky this time... anyway...

In 251BC there was a full stack of AS near Baktra and a full stack from Saka sieging Baktra. I only had Baktra and Kophen left, no army, no allies, low economy... thats when I surrendered. Thats the result:



The seleucids had conquered Baktra and the rebels took Kophen. That happened when I moved one FM (Petrokles Marakandaios) from Kophen to Krete... with the help of some cheated money (my RPG goes that he used the private stash of Basileus Theodotos... as Petrokles was a very selfish and disloyal man) and mercenary, I took Krete to stay in the game and moved the capital to that island.

Now I have some kind of Observer campaign where I want to see where the game goes for a while... I will just try to keep my (Petrokles') personal island as long as possible and maybe even conquer some more if its possible...

Anyway, you guys have some advice which (serious) campaign I should start where I have a chance of actually finishing the campaign (means "victory")? I dont know whats my problem, either economy (build-up style) or diplomacy... its not about the battles, I'm doing OK with that. I thought about trying Epeiros again (I had a good campaign going before I switched to ALX.exe) or Seleucids because I really like them... I'm a little bit tired of successor armies though and Seleucids will be as hard as Baktria I guess (because of MANY enemies).

What do you suggest? I'm looking for a decent challenge... but also something where I can actually win the campaign.

Halps... :(

[Ignopotens]

Try Getai, just take a city or two right away, then disband the army until you can get back in the black. You'll usually end up fighting Epiros, Mak, and/or KH, but usually not for a while.

[Cbvani]

Try the Lusotann. They have pretty realistic victory conditions that'll provide a constant challenge throughout.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

That's a really cool story, PriestLizard! Take on the KH, and form yourself a Hellenic Empire again! Baktria in Hellas seems extremely funny to me.

[XSamatan]

My ongoing AS campain, 270 BC, VH/M



At the first turn, Pahlava betrayed me. Third turn, I lost Sogdiane to the Rebels.

I took my remainig forces in this area and blitzted the Pahlave capital, nearly lost it the next turn against a 100% mercenery army

All levies from south gathered for a counter attack to Astauene, as they could not reach the besieged city in time, currently they lay siege (5 turns remaing)

Hayasdan and Baktria keeping peace, but Baktrix seems to be high mobile... they will take Sagdiane the next turns.

In the West, I decided to train as much levy phalangites as my treasure could afford, an marched against the holdings of Ptolemaio in Kilikia, with no bad losses i took them, This Army is currently on way to pontos, and will take this out, his army was 3 times near Mazaka, that is enough!!

To the south Ptolemaios made a serious mistake, he withdrew all tropps (except FM) from Sidon , so I took this Invitation with pleasure!

so long, Update will follow...

XSamatan

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Things that need improvement

Hayasadan still always takes to the steppes
Saka/Sauromatae stall after rapid early expansion
Baktria is now very weak compared to before.
Arverni are utterly destroyed by Aedui, the fight used to go on for ages
Casse & Saba still weak, though I suppose this is historical
Carthage never really does anything until 220 BCE

Not sure how common this is being my first serious campaign, particularly in light of the above, but by 250ish in my Romani campaign:

Hayasdan have most of the Causcaus and are at war with the AS.
Baktria is holding its own against the AS and expanding into India.
The Arverni own most of southern France, much more than the Aedui anyway.

And this is all without any real interference on my part. Screenshots of map will be forthcoming.

[PriestLizard]

Good luck with your campaign XSamatan. I plan to play an AS campaign too once my AAR is over. I'm curious though if its possible to succeed with AS on VH/M... and since you play on these settings I will eagerly follow your campaign progression. Make sure to post some updates now and then... :)

[XSamatan]

An AS-Campaign is not easy, but you can't compare that to something like Hayasdan or Parthya, the difficulty is that you have from beginning on at least two fronts, against the Parhians in the east and against the Ptolemaio to the west and south. If the Hay and Baktrix attack you too, it will be your nightmare.

In my campaign (s. below) I have the luck that I have only two enemies, Parthia and Ptolemaio, so I can concentrate my troops.




UPDATE from my AS campaing 270BC


Europe:
Carthies&Lusos: typicall prgression so far, nothing extraordinary
Aedui&Arverni: many small battles between them, but no winner in sight
sweboz:normal expansion
romans: Whoa, they are blitzing through Italy and already have massalia and north dalmatia
Maks&KH&Getia&Epirus: cool Epirote expansion, but nothing far
Sauros:on their way to a local superpower
:took their kilikian holdings, captured Sidon and Hierosolyma, last turn I took Salamis from them, some fierce and large battles around Hierosolyma
Hay&saka: nothing to see, some saka armies wandering around my exklave, but no attacks
baktrix:damn, they will take the northest indian town the next turns, strong armies, and I have onlx levies in the east
parthia:currently sieging their last city, it will fall the next turn, bye bye, then I will reorganise the east, get a real army against baktria on the move, against saka I will remain in the defense as long I am not abel to recruit good HA

I had some serious trouble with spawning rebel armie, wha attacked my nearly undefended cities in the heartland of my empire, lost two cities and had to recapture them only with levy spearmen.

Treasery is always low, I make around 7-8000 bonus every turn, enough to build up my economy and recruit levy phalangites but not enough to build a miliary recruit centre in the east to begin with my expansion.

Next goals I want to achive is that I plan to raze Alexandria to weaken the Ptolemaio, attac kthe Hai and build up the defense in the east.

My young heir is at the moment in Asia minor, he will capture city after city, maybe i have to attack Byzantium, to get a good stand at my left flank.

I'm truly sorry for all of you who read this text, my english is not that good,


So long,

XSamatan

[Maion Maroneios]

Makedonia campaign, 255BC. No real FD usage, except moving Epeiros from Taras to Pergamon. I've also been giving the Eleutheroi 120.000 mnai per turn, which is causing more slow AI expansion and aggressive rebels. Also been giving some cash to the Pahlavan, in order to induce them to invade Seleukid land.


Maion

[Sir Edward]

Arverni, RTW.exe, M/M, no mods. This has been a really fun campaign so far. Had fun no blitzing, made some mistakes lost a couple good leaders to the romans and a couple to the sea. Assasins only used against diplomats, assasins, and spys. Spys used sparingly.

Things I enjoyed about AI strategy in this game:
1) Not every faction is expanionist from the get go. Casse, Sweboz, Lusotan, and Hai all took several decades to hit their stride. Feels more like a contnueation of history rather than, time started at the beginning of the game
2) Nomdaic Faction pack a punch. Sarmatians, Saka, and Parthia all held their own. I really enjoyed watching Saka expand south.
3) Bactria has been neutered. The Bactrian are no longer guarenteed a huge eastern empire.
4) The balance of Ptoloma and Seleucid. Neither was a decisive winner and ended up in a protracted Syrian War. Egypt only really started to make ground slowly after every other faction starting carving up Seleucid territory. And despite all of their enemies progress the old capital Antioch held out on its own for near 3 decades.
5) Liked how neither Greece and Macedonia won the war for the balkans yet both ended up surpisingly strong factions. Macedonia's Second chance is really impressive seeing how they were the ones that captured Antioch in the end. I enjoyed watching Pontus and Eperius turn from regional powers into runt states.

Things I thought that could use some imrovement.
1) India rebelling to Parthia, hopefully there will be another eastern faction in EBII that would be in a better position so this will stop happening and messing up parthian expansion.
2) Carthage focus on inland territory of N Africa when should be more concern with costal areas. Seem to take inland region way to fast for the historical difficulty these regions would have resisting their governance.
3) Saba controling all arabia. Somehow there needs to be a roadblock for these guys.
4) Hai going for the steppes. However once they were repulsed they seem to go straight.

P.S. will a 1.2 thread be created or has the team stopped because there are no significant plans for tinkering with AI balance now in EB I and have moved on to EBII?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

262 BC





252 BC





242 BC





232 BC





222 BC





212 BC





202 BC





192 BC




Unfortunately, the Hay managed to take Atropatene the very turn before my traditional screenshot turn. I hope I can present a Hayasdan-free map in 182. And perhaps a Seleukid-free.

[Ignopotens]

I assume you're the Maks and changed the Carthie and Roman colors?

[Maion Maroneios]

Nope, he's the Casse and just too bored (or scared) to go on the mainland

Maion

[PriestLizard]

@Centurio: What difficulty on campaign map?

I think its a good idea so switch the faction colors since both the romans and carthage dont represent their old factions anymore. I guess both empires would have been broken without their main capitals.

[IrishHitman]

@Centurio: What difficulty on campaign map?

I think its a good idea so switch the faction colors since both the romans and carthage dont represent their old factions anymore. I guess both empires would have been broken without their main capitals.

How exactly do you change the colours....

[Maion Maroneios]

If you do some searching on the forums, you'll stumble across it.

Maion

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Retook Phraaspa yesterday and conquered Segesta and Capua.

I assume you're the Maks and changed the Carthie and Roman colors?

Yes. Carthage = Phoinikes, Rome = Imperium Galloromanum.

I think its a good idea so switch the faction colors since both the romans and carthage dont represent their old factions anymore. I guess both empires would have been broken without their main capitals.

Yes. The Phoinikes and the Galloromans are both fled nobility that trys to establish themself again in a conquered territory, with the help of colonists and the like. It's quite nice that the Romans have made Viennos their capital, which they had upgraded to a city of their own culture.

The colours are in Data/descr_sm_factions.txt.

[gamegeek2]

Baktria is holding its own against the AS and expanding into India.

Baktria does indeed hold its own vs. AS. In 1.0 and earlier it would become a monster that would eat all of Persia and India. The infamous "Baktrian Expansion" would also overwhelm the Saka Rauka.

[XSamatan]

AS Campaign until 250 BC


265BC


260BC


255BC


250BC

Look at Rome vs Epirus, and I'm afraid of Baktria....

XSamatan

[gamegeek2]

Interesting, you eliminated the smaller factions instead of dealing with the main threat, the Ptollies. Last time I played AS, in 1.0, I guess the Ptollies were more powerful.

[PriestLizard]

Interesting... Carthage captured Kyrene so they might be actually in war with the ptolies. Maybe thats what slowed them down? I'd love to try AS myself... maybe some day later...

[XSamatan]

nope, carthies and still allied, I did not recognize what was going on there...maybe a short war and then again peace??

I can handle the with my levy phalangites stack in Hierosolyma, as this blocks their way north, but their attacking all three turns....annoying

Yeah, i decided to take out my treacherous allies first, the last time I conquered egypt first and then attacked the smaller kingdoms, but this time they brake away with me at first turn with pahlava, so I decided to reestablish my authority on this regions.

XSamatan

[Joszen1]

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, but it seems a nice continuation to '1.1x AI FPT'.

Main reason I'm posting is that, playing RTW 1.5x and EB 1.2x vh/vh, I am allied to a crazy empire. I am Lusotannan, taken Iberia, Balearics, Southern Gaul, Ireland and Britain. The year is 220BC. I am approached by a diplomat from Pontus offering Alliance and their world map. 'Why not?' I think., Pontus have taken all of western turkey (up to a north-south line through Antioch, and except two Hayasdan regions in Armenia), most of northern greece and north (ie. east of the alps, south of the Carpathians). Anyone else ever seen this happen?

No FD from me, in fact very little diplomacy from me at all, just allied with Sweboz, and, after killing a few legions, Romani against the Aedui and Averni. The Makedons are dead and I killed the Casse.

Anyone ever seen this before?
The only things I can think of is that my early expulsion of the Carthies left them seriously weakened, making Ptolies life much easier, making AS life a misery which equals for Pontus.

Unfortunately I have no map to prove it cause my screenshots come out all black, even with anti-aliasing off.

Hopefully this sparks a lively discussion though.