Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Tribesman]

The fact that hamas was elected makes me kinda less concerned about civilians. This is what they wanted.

An interesting idea , people elected Hamas because they wanted to be bombed not because Hamas was itself running food programs , healthcare and social welfare payments while the principle opposition had sunk to new levels of corruption .
Errrrr...hold on , your arguement doesn't seem to hold any water Frag as it seems to be kinda full of great big holes .

[Fragony]

An interesting idea , people elected Hamas because they wanted to be bombed not because Hamas was itself running food programs , healthcare and social welfare payments while the principle opposition had sunk to new levels of corruption .

So? They still want to kill jews, jews don't want to be killed, tada.

[Tribesman]

So? They still want to kill jews, jews don't want to be killed, tada.

So ? people elected to the knesset still want to kill arabs , arabs don't want to be killed , tada .

So is that an arguement you are presenting or is it an overused wornout sieve ?

[Fragony]

So ? people elected to the knesset still want to kill arabs , arabs don't want to be killed , tada .

So is that an arguement you are presenting or is it an overused wornout sieve ?

If Israel wanted arabs dead they would be dead. I find it so incredibly unfair, it's blaming Israel for not being helpless, maybe they should just roll over?

[Tribesman]

No it is not blaming Israel for not being defenceless , its blaming Israel for trying the same old crap again when they know it doesn't work .
And not only do they know it doesn't work , they know it is counterproductive ...that is really an accurate definition of being a stupid idiot isn't it

[Fragony]

No it is not blaming Israel for not being defenceless , its blaming Israel for trying the same old crap again when they know it doesn't work .

What do you suggest they do? If they do nothing it will be seen as weakness, this is never going to stop it's the frontline of a much bigger battle, these are indeed surgical strikes.

[Hax]

If Israel wanted arabs dead they would be dead.

Hey, wasn't this what they tried to do in Lebanon back in the day? During Hezbollah's defense of Lebanon? In 2006, more Lebanese civilians were killed than Israeli.

So? They still want to kill jews, jews don't want to be killed, tada.

Actually, Hamas itself describes their conflict with Israel as being political, and not religious or anti-semitic.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No it is not blaming Israel for not being defenceless , its blaming Israel for trying the same old crap again when they know it doesn't work .
And not only do they know it doesn't work , they know it is counterproductive ...that is really an accurate definition of being a stupid idiot isn't it

This is a telling statement.

Israel's current actions do little save to preserve and enhance the militant components of Hamas (and other hardliners) without resolving the issue. Repeating an unsuccessful solution is not likely to work -- Tribes makes a good point here.

It has been my belief for some time that the "warlords" among Hamas and the Palestinians (and possibly among the Israeli right as well) enjoy wielding the power of the warlord. They have a vested interest in maintaining the conflict, not winning it outright. So, if Israel is establishing a period of quiessence, then rockets will be sent off to encourage precisely the response they've gotten.


Israel's choices to actually RESOLVE the conflict must be substantially different than those employed to date, since those employed to date haven't resolved the issue. Consider:

1. Bring about a constitutional convention to create a new state -- Palestine -- in which all participate equally. This will result in Jews being a significant minority but return political control to arab-descent Palestinians.

2. Israel ceases all counter-attacks of any kind, utilizing only passive defense techniques such as metal detectors and the like. It then accepts the ongoing civilian and military casualties among Israelis until world opinion turns and the Palestinians themselves are sickened by their own actions.

3. Israel mobilizes all armed forces, turning on Gaza, Jerusalem, and the West Bank in turn and eradicates (by ejection or extermination) all Palestinian presence. It would then likely have to close its borders almost entirely for several years as it would be a pariah state.

4. Israel petitions to be annexed by some other nation, perhaps the USA, and petitions to become a state or two after status as a territory.


So what do you think?


Please note, my key point is -- as Tribes pithily observed -- the current regimen of answers is NOT doing it; something new must be tried. I myself lack the wisdom to know what the best course for Israel should be -- and I can hardly be viewed as having a direct stake in the matter.

[Dutch_guy]

What is the sensible process to resolution?
if the resolution what you are talking about is peace between arab and jew, then i think that if the arabs would lay down all arms against israel, accept israel as a country, we would do the same, and maybe even thrive together as allies.

One could argue that Israel, being something like a Western country, should make the first move there. Not bombing the hell out of one of the most densly populated area's in the world in response to a mortar attack might be a good start. Current technology doesn't allow for surgical strikes in such a densly populated area, and those mortar attacks are crude, ineffective and kill more Hamas than Israeli civilians. Honestly, I don't see what Olmert was trying to achieve other than pure vengeance and extending his time in office. As anyone can judge just by looking back in history that this won't stop the mortar/missle attacks, and won't make the people less inclined not to vote Hamas next elections. And the latter should be what Israel should try to achieve, as it's a democratic country itself.