Just how messed up is Israel?

[Fragony]

Yes, and that's why we're just talking about Israel itself, not gaza or the west bank. Just like that report is on Israel itself, not gaza or the west bank.

"Instead, under international law, East Jerusalem is considered to be occupied territory."

[Incongruous]

The settlers are in my opinion a completely legitimate military target, just like a soldier. They are invaders and occupiers, to not be able to fight against that would be ridiculous. They're not weedy civilians, these people are extremists, terrorists and invaders, and should be dealt with as such.

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

As for dealing with Hamas and Israel; you have to have one plan for each tyrant, there is no "one solution" that can be applied to every situation. Hamas showed willingness to moderate themselves in exchange for more international support. Israel commits even worse atrocities when they gain more international support.

Thank god for some critical thinking here, to equate sttlers with civilians is bogus, they are weapon used by Israel in an underhadn way in order to steal land. Invaders is an apt name for them, they are armed and dangerous, they are racist to the extreme and have no qualms about murdering Palestinians, scum.

Lol at the finger pionting Frags, why do you think Hamas hates Jews?
The blatant fascism of Israel is a good starting point.

[Fragony]

Lol at the finger pionting Frags, why do you think Hamas hates Jews?

Because the jews initiated the french revolution, as well as the Russian revolution, but it doesn't stop there, they also initiated the first WW1, and even the second! Them naughty nosies, they are really the cause for all the evil in the world.

[Incongruous]

Because the jews initiated the french revolution, as well as the Russian revolution, but it doesn't stop there, they also initiated the first WW1, and even the second! Them naughty nosies, they are really the cause for all the evil in the world.

Ok, lets narrow it down, al-nakba ring a bell?

[Fragony]

Ok, lets narrow it down, al-nakba ring a bell?

It isn't about land it's about jews, everything I just mentioned is in their charters by the way. The jews want -ZIONIST WORLD GOVERNMENT- That is why they must kill them wherever they find them.

[Incongruous]

It isn't about land it's about jews, everything I just mentioned is in their charters by the way. The jews want -ZIONIST WORLD GOVERNMENT- That is why they must kill them wherever they find them.

Oh dear, you are willing to ignore the most important even in recent Middle Eastern history in order to brand Hamas as un thinking racists who were born racists because they are just sooo Arab and sooo Muslim, al-nakba changed nothing, these buggers have always wanted to bathe in the blood of Jews!!!

Where is that crack...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Gentlemen,

Cut out the aggressive tone and offensive generalisations please. It should be possible to have a discussion on Israel without deploying terms like "scum". Such usage provokes bad feeling, flaming and infraction points.

Thank you kindly.

[Fragony]

Oh dear, you are willing to ignore the most important even in recent Middle Eastern history

Yes it is of no consequence for what Hamas is, religious facists. Did you think all this started with the sixth day war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7GdviIsjQ

[Incongruous]

Yes it is of no consequence for what Hamas is, religious facists. Did you think all this started with the sixth day war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7GdviIsjQ

Um, no, it started with al-nakba.

[Fragony]

Um, no, it started with al-nakba.

hear it from the good man himself, Fitna +/- 3:10

what a peach, I guess he was a visionary and saw al-nakba even before it happened

http://middleeastfacts.com/weblog/is...s-before-1948/

^- so did they apparantly

So did the Hebron butchers, and many many more.

[Dutch_guy]

How and where the violence started in a conflict raging about 2000 years is silly and pointless.

[Fragony]

a conflict raging about 2000 years

[Hax]

I think his point is that the mess in Palestina is going around for about 2,000 years.

[Hooahguy]

in the spirit of passover, Hamas sends regards

[Fragony]

I think his point is that the mess in Palestina is going around for about 2,000 years.

5000 years if you include the Babylon captivity, 2000 is kinda hard anyway since the prophet was born in 570, but this particular conflict, 80 years or so.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

What you expect them to do? Open up everything again and give everything up? God Forbid if they kill someone, but it's Ok if.... Meh. I don't feel sorry for the attack, I feel sorry for Israel for having to put up with this crap.

[HoreTore]

What you expect them to do? Open up everything again and give everything up? God Forbid if they kill someone, but it's Ok if.... Meh. I don't feel sorry for the attack, I feel sorry for Israel for having to put up with this crap.

They should conquer a piece of Europe instead, we've been the ones doing the majrity of the jew-killings. A piece of Spain(inquisition) or germany(hitler) seems most appropriate.

I do wonder, however, what would've happened if Lenin had lived for 5 more years, and he had successfully created a jewish state in Russia?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

They should conquer a piece of Europe instead, we've been the ones doing the majrity of the jew-killings. A piece of Spain(inquisition) or germany(hitler) seems most appropriate.

Well really, the UK and then the UN established the Jewish state more than it was "conquered"...

I do wonder, however, what would've happened if Lenin had lived for 5 more years, and he had successfully created a jewish state in Russia?

Probably pogrom'd by Stalin.

[rvg]

Um, no, it started with al-nakba.

nakba-shmakba, arabs attacked jews. arabs got whipped really bad. Israelis of course, exploit their victory to the max and act with utmost brutality. Their's a reason for it though, they have nowhere to go, it's israel or death. Now arabs lament over nakba. Instead of doing that, they should have allowed the palestinian refugees to integrate, but no, nobody except Jordan did that. So we still have people lingering in refugee camps 60 years after the war. Nakba. 67, same deal. It's like 1948 never happened and nobody learned anything from that failure. Once again, arabs get whipped real bad. Generated more refugees, lost more land. Nakba.

Nakba came to be largely because of the utter refusal on the arab side to negotiate a fair partition of palestine pre-48. Yes, Israel's policies are in many ways despicable, and it is most definitely not a democratic state, but in this conflict nobody is innocent.

[Sheogorath]

Well really, the UK and then the UN established the Jewish state more than it was "conquered"...

The British do have a bad habit of invading people and drawing silly lines on the map.

I find it endlessly amusing that the state which was probably most tolerant of Jews prior to the creation of Israel was the Ottoman Empire. But I guess they were too busy hunting down Kurds and Armenians.

You know, maybe the best solution to the whole Middle East problem is to just revive the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure Mehmet the sixth has some heirs floating around somewhere.

Plus, it'll give the Russians something to do to.

All of the worlds problems solved in one go! I'm a genius!

[Vuk]

I am a strong supporter of Israel's right to exist, and I think certain muslim groups have been infringing on it, and Israel should not get in trouble for defending its self. At the same time, I know that Israel is far from perfect. They have a messed up economic structure that teeters of communism and doesn't work for . If they had to change it to survive, they would. Like...say...the west would stop enabling them... I think we should definately support them against those who infringe on their rights, but I also think that we should stop enabling them. We are providing military security for ever European country as it is, but we have to, cause if those worthless places fall (no offense to Europeans, I am talking about the worthless militaries, not the people), our chance of success in any war will be greatly hindered. We cannot do anything about Europe cause they got us by the (not that it will really help them in the long run. It will only end up hurting us all), but Israel we can do something about. We should slowly cut the aid to Israel, before dropping it off flat. We should still aid them militarily when enemies are infringing on their right to survive, because they are our allies, but they should be our allies, not leeches stuck onto us. Sorry if this sounds harsh, I got family in Israel (one of the reasons I know what a hole it is :P) and am a strong supporter of Israel and think we should definately help it, I just think that our allies should act like allies and help us in return. As long as we enable them, they will never really be of any strength to help us, because we will be the ones always helping them. I do not blame the people, but the government.

[Tribesman]

"Instead, under international law, East Jerusalem is considered to be occupied territory."

Yes Fragony , so is the Golan and the farms , so currently is Gharjar , previously so was large parts of Lebanon and the Sinai .
That why they are not in the human rights report which deals only with Israel , you know the report that says to are talking complete rubbish when you say "Within Israel's borders arabs have the same rights. "
Only a complete fool would even try to claim that when even Jews within Israel don't have the same rights if they are the "wrong" kind of Jew .

Did you think all this started with the sixth day war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7GdviIsjQ

Wow the Mufti wanted an alliance with Hitler , thats compelling stuff , errrr....who was that Yitzhak Shamir fella who wanted an alliance with Hitler too ?
Nice video , far too many factual errors though to be taken seriously .

hear it from the good man himself, Fitna

that piece of crap by Wilders

http://middleeastfacts.com/weblog/is...s-before-1948/

Wow that only includes a small number of attacks over a short period and contains absolutely none of those perpetrated by Zionist terrorists, nice and balanced isn't it

[Strike For The South]

I only support Israel because it aligns with the US. The day it stops I will send 400 billion to the Arabs.

How one could even defend the human rights violations is beyond me. Or the blatant taking of land.
That really doesn't matter to me though.

All that matters is there on Uncle Sam sides and everyone on Uncle Sam's side is a good guy

[KarlXII]

You know, maybe the best solution to the whole Middle East problem is to just revive the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure Mehmet the sixth has some heirs floating around somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ertugrul_Osman_V

[Jolt]

The day it stops I will send 400 billion to the Arabs.

STFS is Bill Gates in disguise.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Any Israeli citizen not being accorded the full rights of that citizenship is cause for concern. The rights given your own citizens in whatever constitution governs your nation must be held very precious. Anything else trends towards tyranny.

This is part of the reason I so adamantly opposed the Bush administration's detention of Jose Padilla. He was a U.S. citizen, arrested in the USA while not actively under arms against the USA (whatever he may have wanted to do), and was detained without charges for 3 years. He was a scumbag terrorist supporter of AQ and deserved to be tried for treason. However, NO citizen should be denied their rights in this manner. Caught on foreign soil fighting against the USA -- different. Renounced citizenship but trying to reclaim it later -- different. Otherwise, citizens are to be accorded their rights under the law. Try 'em for treason and slam home the penalty, fair enough, but their rights cannot be abrogated in that fashion.

[Fragony]

that piece of crap by Wilders

Not the best compilation of real footage I agree.

[Incongruous]

How and where the violence started in a conflict raging about 2000 years is silly and pointless.

Ummm, the conflict really got off after al-nakba, the Jews were kicked out by the Romans a bit less than 2000 years ago but anyway. The Palestinians and Israelis fo today are so far removed from that conflict that it is fallacy to connect the current conflict to the Jewish uprisings.

nakba-shmakba, arabs attacked jews. arabs got whipped really bad. Israelis of course, exploit their victory to the max and act with utmost brutality. Their's a reason for it though, they have nowhere to go, it's israel or death. Now arabs lament over nakba. Instead of doing that, they should have allowed the palestinian refugees to integrate, but no, nobody except Jordan did that. So we still have people lingering in refugee camps 60 years after the war. Nakba. 67, same deal. It's like 1948 never happened and nobody learned anything from that failure. Once again, arabs get whipped real bad. Generated more refugees, lost more land. Nakba.

Nakba came to be largely because of the utter refusal on the arab side to negotiate a fair partition of palestine pre-48. Yes, Israel's policies are in many ways despicable, and it is most definitely not a democratic state, but in this conflict nobody is innocent.

Nice to know historical fiction and complete lack of facts is still in good health when it comes to Israel and the Arabs. The land was Palestinains before al-nakba, it was Israeli afterwards, through the process of conquest, invasion and colonialism. I don't really know why the blame falls on other people of Arab stock to intergrate these refugees, it is not as if Arabs are a unified people, nationalism was rife in the period. Pan-Arabism never really got off the ground in Palistine or Syria and Nasser was just plain anti Palestinian. So, these nations in general, dislike the Palestinians because they are not the same nations, and they resent the fact that they are left with them. It was Israel that destroyed their lives.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

... The land was Palestinains before al-nakba, it was Israeli afterwards, through the process of conquest, invasion and colonialism...

I believe it was British under a mandate from the LofN and then subsequently the UN, no? Something about the Treaty of Paris and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire if I recall.

[KarlXII]

in the spirit of passover, Hamas sends regards

That's an....interesting signature you got there....