Galatian Help

[Ghaust the Moor]

Hello. I am currently working on a Provincial Campaign mod for the Galatians. I am working to remove either the sabiens or one of the gallic tribes. I was needing help on figuring out which of them to use. Then If you guys pick sabiens, I need help switching cultares and then regardless, I'll be needing help altering the recruitment list for the Galatians, using only historicly accurate Galatian units. Thanks in advance for any help you guys give me. I also want to change the banner for the Faction to something with this symbol on it

The flag design is not mine. I do not claim onwership of this design. It was designed by the people at galloturca.com

I know the text probably has errors in it, but I type tooooo fast and make mistakes sometimes.

When the provincial campaign is complete I will post it in a seperate thread. It will have a more advanced Ancrya, so that the galatians can have some money for the first turns. No more indebt after three turns. Hahaha

[Charles the hammer]

Id remove saba it will be a little harder but since your changing recruitment anyway, you might as well get rid of a useless faction.

[Maion Maroneios]

The Saba are no useless faction, Charles. Every faction has it's use and was included by the EB team for a reason. As for the question of the first post, I don't have anything to say.

Maion

[Charles the hammer]

im sorry to say marion saba is useless. i know why they but them their and i understand why they did it. but i just find they do nothing. I know the casse also do nothing but i like their roster better so they get the tiebraker from me.

[Maion Maroneios]

That's respected from your part, though saying things like a factions' useless will only get you into trouble. Not with me (only if you say Makedonia's a useless facion), though there are plenty of people out there who are bound to get angry with that. Just a simple warning from my side.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

but makedon IS a useless faction, they are just like phyrus, like so what if they have long spears and good cavalry! They always get killed by the romans eventually!

I'm kidding please don't kill me!


I say remove the Casse, in your case of this provincial campaign the casse have the least use. What if the Saba become one of the major players in the east? i've seen it happen. Casse usually sticks to the isles, you won't be fighting them. Unless your an egomaniac.


Come to think about it, if its possible, turn back the clock to the time when Brennus made his epic journey to Galatia! and forge your own home! That would be sick!

[Tyrfingr]

I would remove the Casse, they're pretty much a waste of faction-space...

[Maion Maroneios]

but makedon IS a useless faction, they are just like phyrus, like so what if they have long spears and good cavalry! They always get killed by the romans eventually!

Maion

[satalexton]

but makedon IS a useless faction, they are just like phyrus, like so what if they have long spears and good cavalry! They always get killed by the romans eventually!

I'm kidding please don't kill me!


I say remove the Casse, in your case of this provincial campaign the casse have the least use. What if the Saba become one of the major players in the east? i've seen it happen. Casse usually sticks to the isles, you won't be fighting them. Unless your an egomaniac.


Come to think about it, if its possible, turn back the clock to the time when Brennus made his epic journey to Galatia! and forge your own home! That would be sick!

Truth and hope in our Fatherland!
And death to every foe!
Our soldiers shall not pause to rest
We vow our loyalty

Old traditions they will abide
Arise young heroes!
Our past inspires noble deeds
All Hail Makedonia!

Immortal beacon shows the way
Step forth, seek glory!
Hoist your xiphos into the clouds
Hail Makedonia!

Our Basileus stands astride this world
He’ll vanquish every foe!
His truth and justice shine so bright
All hail his brilliant light!

Never will he be overthrown
Like mountains and the sea
His bloodline immortal and pure
All Hail Makedonia!

So let his wisdom guide our way
Go forth and seek glory
Hoist your xiphos into the clouds
Hail Makedonia!

ALL HAIL MAKEDONIA!!! *crucifies Celtic Punk*

[Maion Maroneios]

Is he dead?

*Maion stabs Celtic Punk with a spear*



OK, we're ruining the dude's thread. I'm out. Sorries.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

Now you can see why they are a useless faction! hahahaha

[Ghaust the Moor]

So. Does anyone have a relevent Idea?

[seienchin]

I was thinking about something similiar, but gave it up.
My Idea about the Galatians were:
1. Give them a huge amount of starting money for their plundering the previous years.
2. Consider if you give them Thylis (Above Pella) as well. Many Galatians settled there.
3. Give them a time based reform. They should get the egyptian galatic unit and Phalangitai, to simulate, that some galatians come back from their mercenary duty and bring new ways of warfare with them.
4. Kick Casse, cause they rarely have any effect on the game, but if you are really good at modding I would rather:
Kick Baktria, cut the map in the east, and add some new provinces in minor asia. This should spice up the galatian game.

[Ravenic]

I must say though, the flag with the Islamic crescents on it is a bit suspect.

[Ghaust the Moor]

@Seienchin:
I like your ideas, but I was wondering what you meant by giving them Tylis. I think that will split the faction greatly and will mess with civil order. Just, I got a little confused.


@Ravenic:
Go to this website. It has an indepth study of the flag. It was designed based on previous knowledge of the Galatians, and much evidence. It is not real, however, so it is only speculation.

http://www.galloturca.com/galatians_files/flag.htm

[Ravenic]

Considering how its a website made by Turks, who almost copy old Turkish flags to make a supposed 'Galatian' flag, which inexplicably has the trademark Islamic crescents despite the decided Un-Islamic characteristics of the Galatians I will remain skeptical.

Its your mini-mod, so you could give them an American flag if you wanted to really, but I was just stating my thoughts in the spirit of EB's historical accuracy culture. At the very least I doubt that it'd pass muster on the chopping block of the EB Team's private forums.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Of course the website was written by the turks, they are the only ones who care enough to do anything concerning the Galatians. The website uses this evidence to support the crescent:

"Many flags reflect the historical ideals, cultures, etc. of the people that they belong. Had there been a flag of Galatia, it, too, should have reflected the history of Galatians. I chose three crescents because crescents was a popular symbol among the druids as well as in the West until the great religious divide of the east and the west occurred following the crusades of the medieval ages. Even during the crusades we can see many banners or coats of arms adorned with crescent . The symbols of crescent are even more abundant in family coats of arms in Ireland and Scotland.

There used to be a tradition for making a new coat of arms in the old Scottland. Traditionally, the first born son would inherit his father’s flag. If any of the other sons depart from the clan, then they would take the same coat of arms and add a crescent on it if he is the second son and a star if he is the third son.

There appears to be three major clans of Celts settled in Turkey, namely: Tolistoboii’s, Trocmi’s and Tectosages. The Tolistoboii’s are related to “Boii’s” who lived in the Boiiland (or modern Bohemia as we know it) until they were driven from their lands by Teutonic tribes. Fernand Lequenne claims that “tolisto-boii” means “boii’s who separated” from the main clan. On the other hand, the clanTectosage is related to the Tectosages of Toulouse (France,) and Trier (Germany) and apparently there were still Tectosages living in Europe following the arrival of Galatian Tectosages in Asia Minor. Therefore, it is logical to assign the symbol of crescent to these clans since long after the migration of these “sons” there were still Tectosages and Boii’s in Europe. On the other hand, the relationship of Trocmi’s to their European clans is not clear for there is no known record of a Trocmi clan in Europe. Unless they are discovered at a later date, it is currently assumed that Trocmi’s took their name from their leader and they were a mixture of smaller clans from the remnants of other clans in Thrace. At any rate, it would seem appropriate to assign a crescent for each of the major Galatian clans on the imaginary flag of Galatia."

[seienchin]

A lot of Galatians settled in Thylis, so it would be a historical accurate chance to give them a second province. Making a new one in minor Asia would be good as well.

Here you find some Gaul money, one from Galatia is in there too. I would rather take pictures on the money as a flag..
http://images.google.de/imgres?imgur...3D105%26um%3D1

I checked some Galatians money, also in a book of mine and it seems like the Ox or the lion was shown on many of them. Maybe just use the Ox and or the lion as a symbol.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Well, I know that the Galatians, existed in that area for a while, but I'm thinking I could take another region in asia minor, make that a starting city and then, at a planned time, a message will appear in the beginning of a level. It will be a loyalist revolt message but will say things like, oh "due our substantial numbers of colonists in the area, a force of Galatians have thrown out the current government and signed a treaty to join us." I will make this happen early on though so we will still have time to expand, while not having to worry about dealing with angry Makedonian or Dacians, wondering why a city just randomly revolted for no reason. I not good with changing sctipt though, so this will take a while.

EDIT:AlsoI noticed that all the coins on google, have an obvious hellenic influence, and the only one that didn't was the one you showed me, which was from after roman rule.

[seienchin]

I dont think you can do that. You cant make cities revolt via Script it cuases CDTs. And EB is about the historical Starting Position right? Anyway its your mod, but I would recommend you to changing the Galatian Flag.

[Ghaust the Moor]

yeah. If thats the case, I just make it a starting city instead. I look for a substatute for the flag, but maybe for a battle, those can be banners?

EDIT: Whats a CTD?

[seienchin]

yeah. If thats the case, I just make it a starting city instead. I look for a substatute for the flag, but maybe for a battle, those can be banners?

EDIT: Whats a CTD?

Crash to desktop.
I would just take the halfmoons out of it...^^
The Colours are nice though. If the Halfmoon would have been so important for them, then they would have printed them on coins. Anyway I think the celtic Crescent looks more like this, if you want to use it http://www.artisttradingpost.com/ekm...ages/c49-d.jpg

[Ghaust the Moor]

Crash to desktop.
I would just take the halfmoons out of it...^^
The Colours are nice though. If the Halfmoon would have been so important for them, then they would have printed them on coins. Anyway I think the celtic Crescent looks more like this, if you want to use it http://www.artisttradingpost.com/ekm...ages/c49-d.jpg

Maybe, I could ,instead of the cresents, use ox or lion heads?

[seienchin]

Sounds cool!
Anyway, if you need some help on scripting whatever send me a Pm, I modded a lot with the script.

[Ludens]

2. Consider if you give them Thylis (Above Pella) as well. Many Galatians settled there.
3. Give them a time based reform. They should get the egyptian galatic unit and Phalangitai, to simulate, that some galatians come back from their mercenary duty and bring new ways of warfare with them.

2. They were relatives, but the Celtic kingdom of Tylis was an independent entity, not controlled by the Galatians. IIRC at EB's starting date Galatia had an alliance with Bythinia, so you could give them the latter province.

3. Did they come back? AFAIK the Galatians settled quite happily in Egypt. Similarly, I am not sure that Galatians actually served in phalanx units.

[Ravenic]

In theory some Galatians served in phalangitai capacities, just as some Jews and others did as well but they were all minorities of larger units, so there never really was a 'Galatian Phalanx Batallion' or whatever you'd want to call it. And, as far as I know even those who did serve as the occasional phalangitai were settled, or even born in Egypt. Its not like anyone went back and then the Galatian Kings adopted Macedonian tactics all of the sudden.

Now a case could be made for Galatian Immitation legionaires, which did infact exist though much later than the actual start date of the game.

[seienchin]

2. They were relatives, but the Celtic kingdom of Tylis was an independent entity, not controlled by the Galatians. IIRC at EB's starting date Galatia had an alliance with Bythinia, so you could give them the latter province.

3. Did they come back? AFAIK the Galatians settled quite happily in Egypt. Similarly, I am not sure that Galatians actually served in phalanx units.

2. First of all, the Galatians werent one single tribe. They are just called the galatians, because of their new home. Now, the celts in Thylis were members of the same tribes as the people, who lived setlled in Galatia. They invaded Greek togher then split up. They are the same people as the Galatians, so its more realistic to give them to the Galatian faction, then having them fight each other...
3. What do you mean by did they come back? They were Galatians, who settled in Egypt, but many more just fought in the service of the Ptollis and Seleuks as Mercenarys and the Galatians adopted more and more greek culter as you can see from their coins, which in later times often displayed greek god like heracles etc. So why not give them phalangitai?

[Ravenic]

Well you could give them rainbow colored ninjas too, but since EB is an anally historical mod if it didn't happen historically then its an odd fit.

The fact is that very few Galatians fought in phalanxes, and those that did more often than not lived in Egypt as second or third generation immigrants in the first place, and never returned to Galatia. Overwhelmingly, the mercenaries that Egypt always hired from Galatia were the sort of heavy infantry, sword and board with a mail coat that you see reflected in the Ptolemy faction roster.

Whatsmore there is no record of Galatian Kings, either in 272 BC or 60 BC using phalangitai. If you really want a pike armed Galatia hire some mercenaries.

[Ghaust the Moor]

Hey, I just figured out what to do with traits. While was wandering through the traits list. I found the name CasseTectosage (I'm replacing the casse). I noticed this was one of the tribes that setteled down in Galatia, and mixed with the Tolistoboiis and Trogmis. I looked a few places down, and found Cassetrogmi and Cassetolistoagii (in other words, the tolistoboii). I will show the varying ethninticity of the galatians with different people having tectosage, tolistoboii, and trogmi traits. The Galatians of Tylis will have the trogmi trait, I think. I am pretty sure they are the ones who settled a little in greece. All people will have their ethiniticity in their name as well. Ex: Lugotorix The Tolistoagii. tell me what ya think.

[Celtic_Punk]

I would remove the Casse, they're pretty much a waste of faction-space...

choke on a spear. They are one of the coolest factions. For this mod it makes sense to remove them but even still, calling them a waste makes you waste. You don't know of their historical significance obviously. And I doubt I'd play EB if they didn't include them.