Your favorite biplane British WW2 Torpedo plane begining with S

[Watchman]

Let's be honest here, though - the planes the RN was saddled with (largely thanks to the chronic, and *still* ongoing, inter-service rivalry with the RAF) were really pretty crappy, even by the standards of the time. The Swordfish was among the *better* of the lot, which is saying something as it was really pretty lackluster by the standards of period torpedo bombers...

Its successes regardless should IMHO really be attributed more to two or so foactors; first, the RN knew its business and trained its crews very well; and second, capital warships just plain were horrendously vulnerable to aircraft - as would become painfully apparent in the Pacific in particular. This was, after all, specifically the period when it began dawning to the more forward-thinking naval theorists that the aircraft carrier was rapidly eclipsing the big-gun ships as the core of fleet combat power...

[rotorgun]

Let's be honest here, though - the planes the RN was saddled with (largely thanks to the chronic, and *still* ongoing, inter-service rivalry with the RAF) were really pretty crappy, even by the standards of the time. The Swordfish was among the *better* of the lot, which is saying something as it was really pretty lackluster by the standards of period torpedo bombers...

Its successes regardless should IMHO really be attributed more to two or so foactors; first, the RN knew its business and trained its crews very well; and second, capital warships just plain were horrendously vulnerable to aircraft - as would become painfully apparent in the Pacific in particular. This was, after all, specifically the period when it began dawning to the more forward-thinking naval theorists that the aircraft carrier was rapidly eclipsing the big-gun ships as the core of fleet combat power...

Very true. It always has astounded me that Mr. Churchill was so keen to send the HMS Prince of Wales and company off on there own from Singapore, knowing what the RN Swordfish accomplished against the SMS Bismark. Did he not think that the Japanese had such a capability? Was he not aware of what thier aircraft accomplished in China? Perplexing.

[al Roumi]

It's not Like GB had carriers aplenty in the pacific to send though (did they have any?). And they might have thought carriers were better for protecting shipping? Probably just had to do something...

[Tristuskhan]

ASW Sunderland with "Fido" homing torpedo!!!
not a biplane but I can't help saying it!!

[rotorgun]

It's not Like GB had carriers aplenty in the pacific to send though (did they have any?). And they might have thought carriers were better for protecting shipping? Probably just had to do something...

I surmise that many of the things that Mr Churchill ordered his military to do at that time were a bit like symbolic gestures. The British high command could have at least ordered up better air cover for two such important symbols of British Naval might, don't you think?

[Tribesman]

I surmise that many of the things that Mr Churchill ordered his military to do at that time were a bit like symbolic gestures.

Exactly.
When Churchill was running the admiralty he produced the report that said sending any less than 8 battleships to the far east would be a waste of effort , also that they shouldn't be sent without aircraft carriers, and to top it all off they shouldn't be based at Singapore at all but rather the safer base in Sri Lanka.
For Chuchill to order the deployment flies in the face of the very report he had commissioned. For not cancelling the deployment while the ships were in S.Africa and it had become obvious that they had lost their carrier and any prospect of getting a replacement is really quite beyond belief .
The only good news from the whole debacle was that Churchills idea of adding HMS Centurion to force Z was overuled.

[rotorgun]

Exactly.
When Churchill was running the admiralty he produced the report that said sending any less than 8 battleships to the far east would be a waste of effort , also that they shouldn't be sent without aircraft carriers, and to top it all off they shouldn't be based at Singapore at all but rather the safer base in Sri Lanka.
For Chuchill to order the deployment flies in the face of the very report he had commissioned. For not cancelling the deployment while the ships were in S.Africa and it had become obvious that they had lost their carrier and any prospect of getting a replacement is really quite beyond belief .
The only good news from the whole debacle was that Churchills idea of adding HMS Centurion to force Z was overuled.

Thanks Tribe. Maybe they should have put Ole' Winney in a Swordfish during the attack on the Bismark. Then he might have thought twice about the invulnerability of capital ships to aircraft.

[Pannonian]

Thanks Tribe. Maybe they should have put Ole' Winney in a Swordfish during the attack on the Bismark. Then he might have thought twice about the invulnerability of capital ships to aircraft.

Never imagine that Churchill would be dissuaded by a practical demonstration of danger. His follies as PM were many, disregard for personal safety being one of them. If someone suggested putting him in a Swordfish for an attack on the Bismarck, he'd likely be thrilled by the prospect of getting a front seat for a shafting of the Germans. Remember he wanted to be over the beaches on D-Day, overruling his staff's protests, and was only dissuaded when the King insisted on being on the same plane if he was going.

One of my favourite stories involves Churchill dining on the side of the Rhine with his chief of staff, while the frontline was not far off. After the dinner, he calmly walked to the riverbank, undid his trousers, and pissed in the Rhine.