If god did make the whole world and everything, and he is all powerful and what not then I swear he must have bin bloody drunk at the time
Re: In need of some religious expertise....
If god did make the whole world and everything, and he is all powerful and what not then I swear he must have bin bloody drunk at the time
- Four Horsemen of the Presence
Re: In need of some religious expertise....
I thought about this as well, through reading through this thread. If god is all powerful, couldn't he have just forgiven man's sins without the compelling story? Something seems amiss...Originally Posted by miotas
If god did make the whole world and everything, and he is all powerful and what not then I swear he must have bin bloody drunk at the time
Re: In need of some religious expertise....
Or just refraining from creating them, cutting things shorter.
HT, you seem very well educated. Coming from someone who got a Christian upbringing, all the important stuff that I got taught was that gays should not be able to marry and that one should not touch alcohol.
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Re: In need of some religious expertise....
Indeed, my good sir, I am a certified high school dropout!
I never learned the "don't touch alcohol/thou shalt not stick thy wiener up thy neighbors bum"-stuff though. Might have something to do with me being raised by anti-religious heathens though
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: In need of some religious expertise....
The infallibility of the Bible is as Philipvs says a protestant claim. And it is understandable because they have no other peg to hang their mantle of authority on.
If the Bible is in any way faulty, the foundation on which they have built their churches will crumble.
I know this might sound a bit pretentious, but it is IMO why they hold so hard to this idea that the Bible is complete and has no faults.
This is one of those topics I have been studying and my favourite religious topic.
Your question Tore, regarding the Bible and what you were taught is mainstream Norwegian Lutheranism. Nearly 90% of the Norwegian population was a very few years back members of the Norwegian Lutheran church (today the number might be less). But like early Catholicism there are movements within the church. You have the Manichaeists, Bogomils, Catharists, Montanists, Arianists and Donatists of today teaching their distorted and slightly off doctrines. This is more common in the countryside with their “bedehus” and new-age born-againism. They seldom have a common doctrine and will meet together to argue about small obscure scripture references. I know, I have been at a few of these meetings. Common for them all is the feeling of being amongst lunatics. It is a theology built on a nonexistent foundation with ideas pulled out of thin air. I can say this because none of them claims divine revelation.
Concerning the Bible and what ought to be in it and what should not be in there, is one of the greatest argument against the infallible Bible. The Catholic Church, which is the mother of the Bible, has a lot to say about it. They have IMO a healthier attitude towards the Bible. That is because they have it as a supplement to claimed divine authority, in the non-broken line to Peter, and the continuously open channel with the beyond and above.
The early church didn’t really have anything other than the Old Testament. Apparently they used the Greek version of the Old Testament – the Septuagint (the 70) which is a translation done by 70 Jewish scholars at Alexandria Egypt sometime a few hundred years BC. The book was a translation of the Hebrew Pentateuch and some other books added to it totaling 51 OT books.
How many does the Protestant bible have today? (39) The Catholic Bible has 46 OT books.
So … the Protestants believe firmly the Bible is complete and there can be nothing added to it. If you look at this historically, how can they defend this position?
Besides, most of these movements in the Lutheran church do not consider the OT, in fact, they have only the New Testament in their canons, yet they proclaim it is complete.
I had to listen to this new age Lutheran, going on about the original manuscripts being kept safe in the Vatican. What a load of … The Catholic Church does not claim this themselves. From an article published in the name of the Catholic Church: "There are no original manuscripts of any books of the Bible in existence today. We have only copies. The oldest copy is the Book of Isaiah, which is in Hebrew, and dates from about 100 B.C. It was found in a cave near Jericho in 1947, and is part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The oldest New Testament manuscripts we have date from approximately A.D. 350".
To illustrate the trouble the translators faced when set to the task of translating was the extensive use of uncial writing in scriptures. This is a type of writing with all capital letters and no connection in between. There were no commas, punctuation, spaces, verses or chapters.
e.g. GODISNOWHERE which could either read: God is now here or God is nowhere. Quite different proposals.
The 27 books of the New Testament were proposed as canon by St Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria. He listed the 27 books as found in the bible today and they were declared Apostical and Canonical at the council of Hippo, the council of Carthage, with Pope Innocent I and at the council of Trent. The same declared the 46 books of the Catholic OT as Canon 73 books in all.
The criterion they used for the New Testament which was previously not compiled into one book was:
1. Written by an Apostle or one close to an Apostle.Interestingly Martin Luther disagreed with what was canonical. He rejected 7 books of the OT and rejected Hebrews, 2 John, 3 John, James, Jude and Revelation from the NT.
2. Liturgical use – use at Mass was an official approval.
3. Orthodoxy in doctrine – the teaching had to agree with the teaching of the Catholic Church.
By 1700, Lutheran scholars restored the New Testament books back into the protestant Canon.
The Early Church made references to 120 different manuscripts of which not all exists today. They all contended for a place in the canon and only 27 made it in. As an example there were 38 Gospels: (Bolded those that were added to the canon)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Sigurd; 07-27-2009 at 14:02.
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Re: In need of some religious expertise....
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Fantastic post! I just never find enough time to read enough on this topic.
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Re: In need of some religious expertise....
Alright, so we've kinda sorted out the issues in my two questions, thanks a lot for that
But.... There's still the question of "what the hey have I been exposed to?" Now, I didn't go to church or anything as a kid, so this knowledge comes from my religion teacher at school, my grandparents and possibly my great-grandmother... I know of the "judas-conspiracies", and I highly doubt that I've been subject to anything like that. Remember, I live in backwater hillbilly Norway.
As for church affiliations, my grandparents belong to the norwegian state church, as far as I know anyway. My great-grandmothers church is called "Betania"(I think), if that tells you anything... I'm pretty sure they also practice adult baptism, but that's about it for my knowledge of that church.
Thanks a lot Philipvs and Rhyfelwyr, for some very interesting posts
Last edited by HoreTore; 07-25-2009 at 17:20.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: In need of some religious expertise....
Well, the Norwegian Church is Evangelical Lutheran, and while that might make it a bit "fire and brinstone" in certain flavours it isn't known for these sort of hardline nonsensical statements, the Church is in Communion with the Episcopal Churches in Britain and Ireland as well as Spain. It seems fairly mainstream Protestant (more like me than Rhy)Alright, so we've kinda sorted out the issues in my two questions, thanks a lot for that
But.... There's still the question of "what the hey have I been exposed to?" Now, I didn't go to church or anything as a kid, so this knowledge comes from my religion teacher at school, my grandparents and possibly my great-grandmother... I know of the "judas-conspiracies", and I highly doubt that I've been subject to anything like that. Remember, I live in backwater hillbilly Norway.
As for church affiliations, my grandparents belong to the norwegian state church, as far as I know anyway. My great-grandmothers church is called "Betania"(I think), if that tells you anything... I'm pretty sure they also practice adult baptism, but that's about it for my knowledge of that church.
Thanks a lot Philipvs and Rhyfelwyr, for some very interesting posts
So, I have no idea what you were exposed to, Ignorantia Sacerdotum as John Cantur would have said (Ignorant Priests).
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