Pool: The best "cheap infantrymen" for staple...

[Watchman]

No, I do it too. I find it makes the battlefield suitably crowded and the units appropriately unwieldy...

[antisocialmunky]

Eh, Drapnai are the zerglings hands down. The other levies are more like SCVs/Drones/Probes.

[Watchman]

For the record, the base quality level of the Draps is "regular" rather than "levy/militia"... and for the sake of comparision, the Bastarnae are on base "veteran".

[J.R.M]

Are You Crazy!? drapanai don´t come in large numbers (thx god), only 160, plus those little zerglins just suck seriously. However i must say that im a protoss player so for me every zerg unit sucks, but that´s off topic now.

[antisocialmunky]

I think that's what Bisu(#1 Protoss) was thinking in this match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l24...e=channel_page

Massive lulz ensued.

[J.R.M]

Ahh... the good old Koreans.. sometimes i think they take this too seriously
LoL.. Yellow kicked Bisu´s @ss

[antisocialmunky]

Speaking of too seriously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aWBSJyVlU

Oh FireBatHero...

Not as funny as the time he got owned by Much with that Pylon Heart...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eawR...eature=related

[Azathoth]

Oh man, the last time I played Starcraft was 2 years ago. And that reminds me...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Note to self - finish Terran campaign ASAP and play the rest of the game already.

[gamegeek2]

Yes, the South Koreans are obsessed with StarCraft.

When is Starcraft II coming out? Only played the original game once...hope it's better than AOE III online.

[J.R.M]

Well AFAIK Dustin Browder (lead designer of Starcraft 2) said that the Beta will come something like August or near that month, and the game would be ready at the end of this year or if things slow a bit it should be finished at the first months of the next year. Luckily for me patience is one of my virtues (hope is not the only).

[Ignopotens]

Drapanai, without a doubt

Although, as Saba, those Archer-Spearmen saved my ass more than once

[Rahwana]

I once try to use drapanai against someone on mutiplayer.... and I get a total defeat from those pesky horse archers!!!! At least akontistai can give them a good impalement!!!

[WinsingtonIII]

Since this is my first post I'm going to start by just thanking the EB team for a truly incredible and intellectually enlightening gaming experience, even though they might not see this.

That being said, I had to go for Drapanai. They may die under missile fire faster than almost any other unit, but when used as flankers they can cut through almost any unit in the game like butter, including multi-hit point general's bodyguards. I've even sent them head to head against Hypastists, and they came off the better in that fight (I may have been lucky though). For about 800 mnai and a pretty decent AOR (at only a level-2 factional MIC nonetheless) they have been lifesavers in my Getai campaign, taking down the enemy heavy armor that I can't really match for a fraction of the price.

As for the archer-spearmen, I used them in my Baktrian campaign, and they weren't as versatile as I had hoped. Regular persian archers are better archers, with more range, and although the archer-spearmen hold in melee better than most archers, they don't have the staying power or morale to be actually relied upon for more than a few seconds against any but the lightest units. I bet if I had been using an army more focused on light units overall they would have been much better, but since I was still using a hellenic phalanx core, their melee didn't make up for the fact that they were worse archers than persians or subeshis. In an all-light unit Saba army, however, I could see their limited melee capabilities coming in handy. I'm thinking about starting a Hayasadan campaign soon and I bet they would be more useful in that sort of army as well.

[Geticus]

Drapanai are great, but Dakian komatai skirmisher will crush them one on one and deal severe damage when they turn the flank and fire javelins in the flank or rear. Playing Getai I can't count the number of times I have seen the screen switch to an enemy general's death scene and who gets the kill-- a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.

Similar to that are the Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmishers, fast moving, high stam, dirt cheap, easy to levy with 3 chevrons, lethal via flank volleys and put enemy cavalry down pretty consistently.

[athanaric]

As for the archer-spearmen, I used them in my Baktrian campaign, and they weren't as versatile as I had hoped. Regular persian archers are better archers, with more range, and although the archer-spearmen hold in melee better than most archers, they don't have the staying power or morale to be actually relied upon for more than a few seconds against any but the lightest units. I bet if I had been using an army more focused on light units overall they would have been much better, but since I was still using a hellenic phalanx core, their melee didn't make up for the fact that they were worse archers than persians or subeshis. In an all-light unit Saba army, however, I could see their limited melee capabilities coming in handy. I'm thinking about starting a Hayasadan campaign soon and I bet they would be more useful in that sort of army as well.

Don't forget that Arabian Archer-Spearmen are better than the regular ones, especially in terms of range. This, and the fact that they have the longest range of all native Sabaean units, makes them one of the most important units for Saba. The best Archer-Spearmen are still Medjinikos, though.

a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.

Komatai swords are not AP. They have a decent lethality, though (.13). That said, IIRC I had some Komatai kill a Ptolemaioi general in my current Swêboz campaign, too.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I once try to use drapanai against someone on mutiplayer.... and I get a total defeat from those pesky horse archers!!!! At least akontistai can give them a good impalement!!!

Using them against horse archers is like using hammer against missile launched 100 miles from you!
You better learn where, when and against who you can use them. Especially when you play multiplayer!

[A Very Super Market]

Yes, there are certain things you want to avoid when playing against certain factions. For example, using unarmoured units with no sheilds against horse-archers. Likewise, charging light cavalry into phalanxes, of against heavy cavalry. Using archers against cataphracts (Not Caucasians) also comes to mind as a poor idea.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The definite Getai strategy involves Drapanai. They are just too cheap and effective to be ignored: I usually place my spearmen on the Center, Drapanai on the flanks. Also avoid having them getting charged at by cavalry, that's bad. That's also why you have Doryphoroi for.

[DaciaJC]

Yes, I would generally keep Drapanai out of the way of cavalry charges... but once said cavalry are bogged down in melee, Drapanai excel at taking them out, performing even better than spearmen.

[Geticus]

Komatai swords are not AP. They have a decent lethality, though (.13). That said, IIRC I had some Komatai kill a Ptolemaioi general in my current Swêboz campaign, too.

I'll be damned, I always assumed they were since they are falxes. At any rate with the Getai general's high morale bonuses I typically find them to be steady enough in melee to wear the enemy out after the initial javelin volleys. They're good enough until one is able to levy Thraikian peltasts proper.

[Cambyses]

I really dont see drapanai as levies, that role surely falls to the (excellent) dacian skirmishers.

I voted for hoplitai haploi as they really can perform the role of a "staple" line troop in early armies, and even later on they make a strong reserve/support unit - so long as they arent fighting an elite phalanx head on!

Roraii [sp] are a comparable Roman unit, although of course they are unlikely to see much action against higher end units.

Agreed that archer-spearmen are exceptionally good value for money and essential for both Bactria and Saba, but woudlnt say they are "staple" troops, more a support unit.

[DaciaJC]

I'll be damned, I always assumed they were since they are falxes.

Actually, what the Komatai carry is a sica, not a falx.

[Rahwana]

Roraii [sp] are a comparable Roman unit, although of course they are unlikely to see much action against higher end units.

And rorarii only recruitable in certain provinces, and for more, after the reform, they are unretrainable

[WinsingtonIII]

Drapanai are great, but Dakian komatai skirmisher will crush them one on one and deal severe damage when they turn the flank and fire javelins in the flank or rear. Playing Getai I can't count the number of times I have seen the screen switch to an enemy general's death scene and who gets the kill-- a lowly komatai with his one-handed AP falx.

Similar to that are the Sweboz Jugunthiz skirmishers, fast moving, high stam, dirt cheap, easy to levy with 3 chevrons, lethal via flank volleys and put enemy cavalry down pretty consistently.

Geticus, I certainly agree that Komatai are very versatile and effective units, and they certainly would destroy Draps in a one on one, as they could just run around throwing javelins at them, and we all know Drapanai suck against missiles. Basically Komatai and Drapanai combined are a very effective, and very cheap, infantry destroying machine. However, you're probably going to need some spearmen or else you will be slaughtered by cavalry. But, you have to admit, Komatai couldn't take on Hypastists from the front, whereas my Drapanai certainly did pull that off. Plus, that .26 lethality falx is pretty impressive when compared to a .13 lethality sica (although that's still great for such a cheap unit). Overall I guess Komatai probably are more versatile and I make them a part of every Getai army, but I just have a soft spot for Drapanai.

[WinsingtonIII]

Don't forget that Arabian Archer-Spearmen are better than the regular ones, especially in terms of range. This, and the fact that they have the longest range of all native Sabaean units, makes them one of the most important units for Saba. The best Archer-Spearmen are still Medjinikos, though.

Sorry for the double post, I didn't notice this reply at first. I'll keep in mind that Arabians are better if I ever make it far south enough to recruit them. What are the Medjinikos though? Are they those Baltic archer-spearmen that I keep hearing about but have never seen or used?

[moonburn]

hoploi for the win they can hold anything on guard mode

[Geticus]

Geticus, I certainly agree that Komatai are very versatile and effective units, and they certainly would destroy Draps in a one on one, as they could just run around throwing javelins at them, and we all know Drapanai suck against missiles. Basically Komatai and Drapanai combined are a very effective, and very cheap, infantry destroying machine. However, you're probably going to need some spearmen or else you will be slaughtered by cavalry. But, you have to admit, Komatai couldn't take on Hypastists from the front, whereas my Drapanai certainly did pull that off. Plus, that .26 lethality falx is pretty impressive when compared to a .13 lethality sica (although that's still great for such a cheap unit). Overall I guess Komatai probably are more versatile and I make them a part of every Getai army, but I just have a soft spot for Drapanai.

Basically I love the Draps, but the way I see it they can't occupy the front line vs. any competent combined arms opponent because they are arrow/javelin/bullet bait. In fact in custom battles with komatai vs. drapanai there is no need for komatai to skirmish, they can just march forward on autofire, when the draps charge in range they eat 1,200 continuous javelins (huge unit size) which means they tend to route without the need for skirmish mode. So for me drapanai are basically reserve and second line forces, and as such they are a notch below komatai because the komatai hold the front line which is the place of honor.
As for komatai, I agree they are vulnerable to cavalry charges but their ambush skills, stamina, and javelins partly compensate. If put on a slope or some strong point, then they can get the first strike in via javelins before the cavalry hit home, and typically if the cavalry charge I just charge right back, take 20 casualties or whatever and slug it out. That of course is when the bodyguards and drapanai et al. come into play.
Really with Getai I have found it so easy to get big morale boosts like "gifted killer" "zealot of zalmoxes" "shieldbiter" etc. that the komatai almost never route regardless of cavalry charges and they hold the line fine. Playing on very hard campaign/hard battle, in the early phase of a Getai campaign all I use are Sarmizegethusan komatai in the front line, no light phalanxes, no Thraikian spearmen, nothing but Komatai hordes, slingers, Scythian archers, a couple few draps and the a unit or two of bodyguards.
But if I had to play only one unit- draps or komatai it would be the komatai hands down, and mid game if I want to get multiple armies of conquest, chances are I start levying 3 chevron komatai out of Sarmizegethusa again to fill out the front line since peltasts and phalanxes are a bit expensive.

Oh and point conceded about the drapanai pawning hypaspists, KH bodyguards, triarii and the like, they are pretty peerless for that but by the time I get Thraikian peltasts I find that peltasts + cavalry charges give me all the armor piercing I need so the draps at that point are just wall defense mostly. And anyhow by the time Makedon starts to be able to levy hypaspists in any meaningful numbers, Pella has already fallen to my komatai ;).

[Megas Methuselah]

Oh and point conceded about the drapanai pawning hypaspists, KH bodyguards, triarii and the like, they are pretty peerless for that but by the time I get Thraikian peltasts I find that peltasts + cavalry charges give me all the armor piercing I need so the draps at that point are just wall defense mostly. And anyhow by the time Makedon starts to be able to levy hypaspists in any meaningful numbers, Pella has already fallen to my komatai ;).

A fine tactic. One which, might I add, I haven't failed to use.

[godsakes]

the casse shortswordsman are great front line battlefodder - on their own their morale lets them down but when you support them with a few morale boasting units they'll hold their ground and through sheer numbers (as they're so cheap) you can wear away armies with higher grade units.

[athanaric]

Sorry for the double post, I didn't notice this reply at first. I'll keep in mind that Arabians are better if I ever make it far south enough to recruit them. What are the Medjinikos though? Are they those Baltic archer-spearmen that I keep hearing about but have never seen or used?

Yup. Though it is important to remember that there are two kind of Baltic Archers: the Lonkīnīkōs, who are slightly better than Germanic or Celtic archers but nothing special, and the Medjīnīkōs (Baltic Frontiersmen), who are the strongest Archer-Spearmen, although their range and attack is slightly lower than that of the Arabian guys. Btw., I suspect that only Saba can recruit the latter.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;358
type             arabian missile northern arab levy
dictionary       arabian_missile_northern_arab_levy      ; Giusim Aravim Tsfonim
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       General_1
soldier          eastern_missile_eransahrarshtbara_northernarab, 40, 0, 0.95
mount_effect     horse -2, elephant +1, chariot +4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, hide_long_grass
formation        1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         5, 0, arrow, 196, 25, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         11, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  2, 9, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        0
stat_ground      0, 0, 1, -2
stat_mental      9, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 842, 211, 149, 50, 842
ownership        saba

;415
type             germanic missile lankininkas
dictionary       germanic_missile_lankininkas      ; Lankininkas
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_missile_lankininkas_medininkas, 40, 0, 0.9
mount_effect     chariot +2, elephant -2, horse -2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy
formation        1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         4, 0, arrow, 160, 15, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         12, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  2, 8, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental      8, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 25
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 657, 164, 299, 47, 657
ownership        britons, gauls, scythia, germans, spain, dacia, slave, egypt, seleucid, thrace, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, armenia, pontus, parthia, saba, greek_cities

;416
type             germanic missile medininkas
dictionary       germanic_missile_medininkas      ; Medininkas
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       General_1
soldier          germanic_missile_lankininkas_medininkas, 40, 0, 0.95
mount_effect     chariot +2, elephant -2, horse -2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, very_hardy, mercenary_unit
formation        1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         4, 0, arrow, 187, 25, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         14, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    light_spear
stat_pri_armour  2, 12, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental      11, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 25
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1021, 255, 299, 47, 1021
ownership        britons, gauls, scythia, germans, spain, dacia, slave, egypt, seleucid, thrace, macedon, romans_julii, numidia, romans_scipii, romans_brutii, carthage, armenia, pontus, parthia, saba, greek_cities