I got a rather unambiguous result. He was the last person in YLC's tent, there were noises, and he ran off. I don't have 100% investigation ability, but I can tell if Ichigo did anything during the night. So far I've gotten nothing but empty results. Previous night, I checked Ichigo and he didn't do anything. So, since there were no kills, I repeated the investigation last night. It clearly implies he killed YLC.
THAT is what was really going on with me trying to stay alive. Beskar and I aren't partners, I just asked him to pretend to be.
Load off my shoulders.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-29-2009 at 04:54.
I wonder why the mafia killed off someone we might have lynched on our own, though... surely they could have picked someone less... controversial?
As for YLC, I fully expected to have "removed" his wares for "safekeeping" within a few hours, so nobody has to worry about them being posthumously stolen. Ahem.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer: The Gameroom
What is there to say other than what has been said?
Vote: Ichigo
Though, what is disturbing, why are there now two kills and who is the other Mafia?
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
It is my belief that Ichigo wasn't active at the start of the game, and then kept the kills to a minimum in order to not make it obvious that it was him missing the kills.
However, I can't prove that, and there are other plausible explanations.
Hmmm.....you guys all know that ATPG said his investigation ability is not 100% but I well see what happens.... ATPG, Reenk before he died sent me a...interesting PM between the two of you....it seems more like a Cultist group then you being a detective It would also explain why you trust Beskar...even though in Chaotix's game you killed everyone just to be sure
I can post it but it's very, very long (It toke me over half an HOUR to read it...)
You know what? cat's out of the bag so I will just post it in spoiler tags..
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Hi White eyes, just wanted to see how you were. K, enough chit-chat, let's talk Mongolica (specifically Atpg)!
So you know the story: I thought Atpg's last second vote to save himself round one was cheap and went after him. Didn't think he was Mafia at the moment. Beskar goes and sticks up for him, causing me to reread the thread and noticing the connection between them. Pretty crappy case I cooked up, but by the standards of Mafia games, it was decent. I go after them for awhile for the two reasons that I kinda like to push Beskar's buttons and nobody else is really coming up.
On July 24 (don't know the round exactly, it was probably during the split lynch), Atpg sends me this PM:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Posts 255, 256, and 257:
There's a reason I didn't vote for you in that situation. Given that currying your favor is highly unlikely, what is the other reason?
Here is all further correspondence by me and him at that point:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Posts 255, 256, and 257:
There's a reason I didn't vote for you in that situation. Given that currying your favor is highly unlikely, what is the other reason?
I can speculate many reasons. Not sure which one is correct, only you know.
Perhaps it was because the game was early and most people hadn't voted. Pushing a third vote on me really would do more to yourself than to me, as I only had a few people ever gunning against me in the first place.
Perhaps it was because of my nice smile.
There is a player here who has the ability to "watch" another player at night. It is like an investigation but somewhat inconclusive. You were watched and you weren't doing anything that night. That doesn't tell me a whole lot, but I'd rather vote for someone who hadn't been watched over someone who has. As it's not conclusive, it's not a terrible loss if that person is found out and murdered; but I'd still prefer a murder over a lynch, and save the lynches for those who haven't been "watched".
Even if you're skeptical, I'd still prefer a round or two of time. Trust me, I'll end up dead soon enough.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
I'll tell you what, thank you for telling me this Atpg. I'm can't tell if you're lying or not but my gut tells me you're a good guy (or THE good guy).
If you are THE good guy this does make my going after you a good thing in a way. You have suspicion on yourself which makes the Mafia less likely to want to kill you if they don't figure out who you are. Also if you are a bad guy, there's still a case against you that may be exploited for your lynch.
Obviously, if you are truthful and I believe you to be, this makes my whole case against Beskar wrong. He still may or may not be Mafia, but the reason I had against him is obviously no longer valid. That is given you are THE good guy, and not Mafia who knows of what the good guy did and is now trying to seem like on his side.
The one that remains for me is Sigurd, did this good guy watch him yet?
The problem here is that we are dealing with more than a single mafioso (I would expect... game would have an awfully strange setup otherwise) and so being watched does not in and of itself mean you're totally innocent. It only means you weren't the one doing the killing that night, which is... unreliable but better than nothing.
As such, and given how revealing this to you is a risk because I still can't confirm you're innocent and vice-versa, I'd PREFER not to reveal everyone else who gets "watched" just yet. However, until I die and thereafter, I will nudge the town when they are getting it wrong if that person is in danger. That I feel is the best way to limit the damage.
There is at least one player who has been "watched" and still has no idea that they were. Again, since it's not 100% I'd rather not drop a hint to them. In your case, given how suspicion and votes are high in my direction, and my death would seem to be a done deal in a short amount of time, I don't feel I've really risked a whole lot by coming out early. Just trying to limit the damage.
Please feel free to continue the case against Beskar or Sigurd or anyone, basically. Beskar, like myself, is pretty much dead in the water due to our behavior and suspicion cast against him. Once the heat dies down from the town, it's only logical the mafia will finish us off. I'm actually more concerned about you, because you do have a chance of outliving us, and you've already been checked out.
I would like to keep everyone who has been watched alive as long as possible without giving away too much. Seeing as the watcher doesn't stand a chance, it's more necessary than usual to keep those who have been watched already alive. The information is useless after they are dead; the whole point of the investigation is to have some knowledge about the remaining living players. The detective himself is less of a concern because he will definitely die by the mid-game or so, if he is lucky.
That's the reasoning I'm using to be kind of obvious about my behavior just to keep those who have been watched alive. Wasting time watching them when they just end up dead does none of us good.
Rambling... revealed too much here but that's how it goes. If you absolutely insist on knowing who else has been checked out I will of course be forced to tell you; I'd prefer it if you didn't ask, please.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Ok, it seems you don't trust me as much as I trust you. This is fine, and understandable, given that you have more to lose than me.
I won't ask you about who else you watched (at this point, given some of the ways you used pronouns in that post, I'm assuming you are this watcher). I won't also hide the fact that it does make me slightly more suspicious of you (though I still believe you more than I don't).
All I will say is that by my estimation of things, you probably have more than two rounds to live assuming you don't get killed. I don't think you're a popular lynch at all at the moment.
If you feel the heat than obviously reveal. Of course, I will probably back you when you do so.
P.S: Pretty damn good play to make it look like you were intentionally saving Beskar but also hint that it was some kind of sarcastic response to my case. Did you a lot of good imo.
I will suggest one course of action lastly.
Perhaps this watcher could enlist a townie to be his messenger. This townie would pretend to be a watcher and tell the town who was innocent at a critical stage. It would most likely mean death for that townie, but to save the watcher it would be well worth it. The watcher could continue on seeking new targets this way.
Of course, the watcher would have to trust the townie, so it is his call. I'm sure the townie is at his beck and call.
Might you be volunteering for this "watcher" role?
Hmmm.... Reenk Roink... claiming to be "the watcher".... again... I see only one minor flaw with that plan. No one would believe you'd be a "watcher" for what is it, the third time? (I think?) I'm kidding; if you think you can pull it off, that's fine. I was actually planning on doing something like that as soon as I had a few under my belt.
Aside- I was going to wait until the next day phase to send you the first message I sent, because I felt that was the safest time to reveal to you (getting through another night phase) however I saw you were getting into the verbal wars again and I wanted to see if I couldn't spare you the trouble of arguing about a connection between Beskar and I, when apparently you are one of the few who noticed one early and took it seriously.
As for being suspicious of me; no offense taken. Keep these conversations saved if you wish, use them as evidence if you want to force me to claim. I've gone to the fake claim well a lot of times, so essentially my life is in your hands. I know the detective claim is scummy, and that's why it would make sense for you to reveal me if I fail to make any progress. As for me trusting you, there's no such thing as absolute trust in mafia games, but this whole conversation is evidence that you have benefit of the doubt from me, more so than most, at the present time. I apologize it isn't 100% but it is what I can offer.
Sorry for such a long read but I think you see what's going on. Atpg claims to be some role that can watch others during the night (detective lite). I buttered him up in those PM's (knowing a bit about Atpg and how he takes his performance in these games somewhat to heart) but the truth is, my belief was a bit greater than my suspicion back then.
(somewhat recently Atpg asked me about my vote switch on TinCow and if I needed him and Beskar [there is a connection now] to vote on him - if you want those PM's ask, but they aren't important to what we're discussing)
Now then, while I cautiously believed Atpg before, and I still cautiously believe him now, I want to cover all bases. This is where you come in.
Why you? Well, me and you are a good team and I like playing with you of course. Also, your argument with Atpg caught my eye.
I'm telling you all of this in the chance that Atpg is lying and is Mafia. I already tried to test him recently, by asking him to reveal. My PM and his response, all today:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
I suggest you reveal. Either this round or the next. Either by yourself or through someone.
There are 18 players now (possibly less after this coming night). With your 4 (or 5) investigations not only does the town get a better handle on almost a third of the remaining players, but they also have a lot more time to do things with the information, unlike if we only had 10 more players left.
I see what you've been trying to do having done it myself many a time, but I believe it might backfire. You may just go ahead and get too much lynch support, or you might be knocked off by the Mafia for being too out there.
I understand and appreciate your concern, Reenk; as of right now someone else already knows everything that I know, and it doesn't even matter if I reveal at the moment or not, because even if the mafia kills one of us, the other can reveal. (Like two MAFIA? Pizzaguy said there was only ONE)
However, it would be tactically beneficial for me to take me up on your offer to "reveal" for me. Not only would that more fully clear you in my mind (the watcher role not being 100%) but it would spare the other person I have to look out for.
I don't want to do anything more tonight because it could give the mafia too much info, which they pretty much already have. The truth will come out soon though, and it could be a good idea to deal with this in the morning.
So now you know everything I know about Atpg.
He has a person who he has trusted more than me (could it be his Mafia partner? could it be Beskar? could it just be some cleared townie he trusts more than me?), so he's obviously trying to cover his bases. It's all good, as so am I.
He wants me to potentially reveal for him. OK cool, if he's really a watcher type role, than I wouldn't have a problem doing it. But I also want Atpg to be kept on his toes. So that's why I'm going to ask you to do me a favor. If/when Atpg asks me to reveal on his behalf, I'm going to forward you all the info, and you will do it.
If Atpg's legit, then he shouldn't have a problem, even though it might mess with his head a bit. If he's not, then we'll have messed with his head. Either way, I don't want Atpg running things, not when I'm not 100% sure about his innocence.
Lastly, you might be Mafia. I don't think so right now (Reenktuition's got nothing though my gut says you're innocent) but the way it's set up, if you were Mafia, you are screwed even if you get this information. If Atpg dies, I know who did it. So yeah, I covered this base too (I hope).
I bolded all the suspicious stuff have a good read
THAT is what was really going on with me trying to stay alive. Beskar and I aren't partners, I just asked him to pretend to be.
Load off my shoulders.
You words, yes?
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Not only would that more fully clear you in my mind (the watcher role not being 100%) but it would spare the other person I have to look out for.
You lied....there are TWO of you...and it points strongly towards two mafia being you and Beskar (It makes sense given you never trust anyone as Pro-town...Look back at Chaotix's mafia or Family guy mafia. You even had your Pro-town roles killed)
And yet you trust Reenk and Beskar? even though it's not a 100%? Your Lieing plan and simple
I need to confirm something before I say anything on the "Cultist part" mostly from Reenk's viewpoint
It's funny that White_Eyes:D has this "convincing" argument when AskthePizzaGuy has got a successful result on some one. There is a far easier test, at the end of the turn, if Ichigo is found to be "innocent" then obviously, PizzaGuy must be Mafia/Lying, thus lynch him. On the otherhand, if AskthePizzaGuy is telling the truth, obviously, it means there is one Mafia left and well, there was some one trying to divert the town away from a proven mafia....
Last edited by Beskar; 07-29-2009 at 06:16.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
As long as your not going to spam the thread, I don't mind
It is set in stone for Ichigo Why I even bothered to warn town is beyond me..
Vote:Ichigo
Edit: It is also interesting, how Reenk died the day he asked you guys to reveal (It could be bad luck but I prefer to think you both had something to do with it)
I also think my theory about the Mafia powering up there kills is true... We should be looking at one or no kills tonight...I played Khaans games before and he doesn't
cut a mafia's kills just because one is lynched...I also think you guys were trying to swap that under the rug as well...truth is, there is no way to know if you are telling the truth or not..
I don't have anything more to add, because I'm willing to be lynched in trade for lynching Ichigo. Any question of my supposed guilt will be put to rest then.
That would be the problem....even if you do...no one well lynch you over Ichigo because they have a detective reveal even though it's not a guarantee, over a PM from a suspicious townie and you...Ichigo is dead but I know that you two are the most suspicious
This all would have been avoided had you been clear about Beskar role in all this....but now you messed up by keeping it secret, yet still trying to have others lynched and even PMing Reenk, who you should know would not trust you
If your Mafia then this is the ballsiest move you have ever done....if you hadn't been trying so hard to protect Beskar I wouldn't even have seen it
You have an opinion that I can't overturn, because you're pretty sure about your hunch. Some points:
1. There's plenty of time left on the clock. Revealing this early just to lynch Ichigo of all people if I were a mafia makes no sense. The same strategy could be done next round. I wasn't really in danger of being lynched.
2. That being said, I do things that make no sense, out of sheer balls. That is why I am aware I have no credibility as a detective revealing, and am prepared to die next round. That should be good enough for you.
3. I am working with Beskar, but I've never made a secret about it. Given how much of a dead man walking I am, how long do you think he's going to live, if he were my mafia partner? Makes no sense.
I realize I do things which seem to make no sense, as a strategy, at times. But there's no way I'd abort our entire chance of winning the game by voluntarily revealing to the town we were both working together, as early as round 2, and then follow it up with a fake detective claim on round 5, with so many players left. It's a moron strategy. If I am as clever as you suggest, give me more credit.
That would be the problem....even if you do...no one well lynch you over Ichigo because they have a detective reveal even though it's not a guarantee, over a PM from a suspicious townie and you...Ichigo is dead but I know that you two are the most suspicious
I can see you not believing ATPG, but do you have some evidence of Ichigo's innocence? You seem to be trying quite hard to save him, or at least take ATPG down with him.
I don't really care about IchigoI am not trying to save him...
If the kills keep up and ATPG is lying, we only have 11 people left at a rate of 2 kills per night= We only have three lynchs left if it stays at 2 kills (which I think is a high possibility but after posting this I just rendered that useless or at best WIFOM)
Ichigo is gone, I don't care but don't forget ATPG's behavior up to this point....that is all I ask
I don't really care about IchigoI am not trying to save him...
If the kills keep up and ATPG is lying, we only have 11 people left at a rate of 2 kills per night= We only have three lynchs left if it stays at 2 kills (which I think is a high possibility but after posting this I just rendered that useless or at best WIFOM)
Ichigo is gone, I don't care but don't forget ATPG's behavior up to this point....that is all I ask
But I really think ATPG and Beskar can make it to the end...even if there were 50 people...there just that good at fooling people
"I am now beating a dead horse" as Pizzaguy would say and well wait for the lynch and night kills(maybe?)..Reenk, I could really use your help right now...
Re: Mafia Mongolica (IN PLAY)
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Originally Posted by TosaInu
but I well see what happens....
ATPG, Reenk before he died sent me a...interesting PM between the two of you....it seems more like a Cultist group then you being a detective
It would also explain why you trust Beskar...even though in Chaotix's game you killed everyone just to be sure
)
K, enough chit-chat, let's talk Mongolica (specifically Atpg)! 
Beskar goes and sticks up for him, causing me to reread the thread and noticing the connection between them. Pretty crappy case I cooked up, but by the standards of Mafia games, it was decent. 
I go after them for awhile for the two reasons that I kinda like to push Beskar's buttons and nobody else is really coming up. 
but I think you see what's going on. Atpg claims to be some role that can watch others during the night (detective lite). I buttered him up in those PM's (knowing a bit about Atpg and how he takes his performance in these games somewhat to heart) but the truth is, my belief was a bit greater than my suspicion back then.
Either way, I don't want Atpg running things, not when I'm not 100% sure about his innocence.
So yeah, I covered this base too (I hope). 
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