Alright, I'll give you "independence" as well. But I won't give you freedomOriginally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
Alright, I'll give you "independence" as well. But I won't give you freedom
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
Ahh, but why do people want independence? If you are living under the control of a powerful empire, why abandon such security? Because independence means the freedom to live your life they way you want you, not some parliament in Europe. For colonists back then, with independence came the freedom to spread out where ever you want and own your own piece of prosperity and tranquility, the freedom to meet with traders from all across the world, throwing off the chains of a trade monopoly with Britain and talk and negotiate freely with all. Colonists wanted these freedoms that the British denied them (colonials actually regarded themselves as English citizens and subject to the same treatment those on the isles received) and independence (as Americans not English) for many was the only way such freedoms could come to the thirteen colonies.Alright, I'll give you "independence" as well. But I won't give you freedom
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
About the proclamation line.
The British were making a sound military decision. They were most definitely not protecting Indians. I am American and looking at it in hindsight i can see the reasoning. however, at the time it would have pissed me off as well.
The Indian tribes had sided with the french. Even after the French and Indian war, the Indians were on the warpath against any non-french whites. It would have been suicide for any settlers to cross over the borders. so the colonists were being protected FROM the Indians.
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
1. Nationalism.
2. Personal power.
Face it, the colonials were not oppressed by the brits. It's kinda like how Norway became independent. We weren't oppressed or anything by the swedes, but all the same, people wanted their own country. Bloody fools...
Now, fighting Germany, that was a fight for freedom.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
1. Wrong, as I said up until the war began to escalate colonists still considered themselves as British citizens. Fighting began at Lexington and Concord on April 19, 1775, the Declaration of Independence, our formal recognition of ourselves as Americans was not approved until July 4, 1776.
2. What power? From the beginning of the war until the ratification of the constitution, (about 1777 until 1788) the United States was governed under the weak Articles of Confederation where there was practically no Federal Government strength and each state did as it pleased. It was like this for about 5 years after the war ended, so tell me, without any central authority in the years after the war ended how could the quest for personal power be one of the main goals of these Revolutionaries.
Maybe you should just stop talking about things you don't know anything about? I don't know if America bashing is popular in Norway right now, but it is quite tiresome for us Americans who have to explain why we broke off from "Enlightened" Europe.
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
I'll leave it to Louis.... He likes the grumpy ones more than I do.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
I look forward to refuting his arguments as well.I'll leave it to Louis.... He likes the grumpy ones more than I do.
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
You need to learn to spot teasingI look forward to refuting his arguments as well.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
Perhaps you should have thought about that before you broke off from Europe...
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
Sigh i see this all the time. As everyone can see from the real facts, Europe broke off from America. Ah, someday you will understand children.
Re: the 2nd amendment- why 2nd?
The ranking has no meaning whatsoever. The amendment was first formally proposed by the Pennsylvania convention that ratified the constitution, and they listed it at #7 on a list of 14. They also used wording that was extremely clear in its purpose and which would put today's debate about the purpose of the 2nd to rest:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
In the first proposal of the actual Bill of Rights, there were 20 amendments, and the right to bear arms (with different wording) was listed as #17. A re-write proposed by the New York convention then suggested a different version with the right to bear arms listed at #5, followed by a North Carolina convention proposal that put it back at #17 out of 20. Madison then re-did his proposal and drafted the amendments in a manner that inserted them directly into the main Constitution instead of listing the amendments separately. This new draft listed the right to bear arms fourth. The Select Committee which was tasked with drawing up the final wording then put the right to bear arms third.
After it came out of committee, the first full draft was proposed to Congress with a total of 17 amendments, with the right to bear arms at #5. After it came out of the Senate, it had been chopped down to 12 amendments, with the right to bear arms at #4. That was the form that was then sent out to the States for ratification. After that point, 2 of the 12 were not ratified, which required another re-write and additional re-organization which resulted in the right to bear arms landing at #2.
As you can see, the numbering was totally irrelevant and was never considered as any indication of anything.
Last edited by TinCow; 08-03-2009 at 18:26.
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