About the situation on the EB forums as of late

[Krusader]

On behalf of the EB team.

Lately, the EB forums have deteriorated down to a level the EB team is not happy with. Spam, "in before the lock", insults, derailing threads with off-topic nonsense, with the Romaioktonoi and the silly Romans VS Hellenes one-liners are prime examples. No one, I repeat no-one within the EB team finds that funny at all. The last thing the EB team wants is the forums to devolve into a personal playground for a select few, as this makes newcomers hesitant to post on a forum that will not feel open. We want these forums to be about EB and a place to discuss history. That does not mean we want only educated academic discourse on our fora, far from it: we simply don't want to spend our time cleaning up SPAM, issuing warnings and closely monitoring our public fora, when we could be developing (not to mention bugfixing) EB.

Consider this a warning. If anyone continues with derailing threads, pointless spamming, trolling, posting offtopic Romaioktonoi/anti-Roman/anti-Greek nonsense, insults, trying to lock threads etc. that goes against ORG policy will have their access removed. You won't be able to post here again. No exceptions.

[satalexton]

I, Megas Satalextos Zairon Airetikos Basileus ton Basileon Nikesas Barbaron, would apologize for Romaioktonoi's share of the havoc that was made recently in a few of the threads. That includes me, especially me. For as SymBasileus, I am not only responcible for my conducts, but those of my followers too.

From hence forth, I pledge that the Romaioktonoi will express views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc. We shall not use spam or make irelevant backlashes upon remarks directed at us.

And I shall use this opportunity to clarify that we have no intention to "usurpe" the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind. Spamming was never our original intent, trolling was never our purpose. Though slanderous and intently defaming, we are not without fault for projecting such an illusion to some.

Regretfully,

Satalexton

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

*Sound Applause to Sata and Krusader*

That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum !

[Skullheadhq]

The last thing the EB team wants is the forums to devolve into a personal playground for a select few, as this makes newcomers hesitant to post on a forum that will not feel open.

Please explain this part.
Do you mean we're xenophobe or something?

the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind.

There is a new tavern, y'know

[dragoon47]

Sorry, I also kind of fed the flame, hope to be more amiable in the future. Your mod has brought my attention back to RTW by the way, I haven't played it in quite some time as well.

[Krusader]

Please explain this part.
Do you mean we're xenophobe or something?

Let me quote Macilrille and notice the bold part:

And I fear this thread is going to deteriorate and get locked unless we control ourselves, so let us please.

For that is in fact what this question is about. The number of locked threads the past month and a half, do they always rise in summer? Is this like the press that has nothing worthwhile to report in summer and thus goes into trivialities?

I am thinking we should discuss history and EB. Tactics, development, etc. Instead two out of three Roman threads gets locked in a week (and one even from a nice noob that asked for advice and has now disappeared- discouraged?). A thread on some troll in some other forum? Personal attacks and flaming in Hellene Warfare threads?

WTF? Does this happen every summer or?

I would like to know why, but I would also like it if we all took a deep breath and calmed down a bit. Perhaps some introspection and restraint is in order?

That's the main reason. Forums like the ORG are supposed to be open for all to partake in discussion. If people feel they have to be part of a certain group (in this case the anti-Roman League) on a forum it will most often than not discourage them from posting, as they don't know if it will be answered or ridiculed. Others again just plainly won't like the tone of some posts and wonder if Europa Barbarorum loathes the Romans, because a few members run around yelling "Roman barbarians murdering cultures" and whatnot.

Another thing is that we EB members have other hobbies or games we like too and that means we do visit other forums.
As a personal example, that should illustrate it nicely, I'm a Battletech nut, which people who know Battletech would have recognized by now. Ever since I was a kid, seeing a 100-ton mech brimmed with weapons would bring a smile to my face.
Anywho, I've frequented the official Battletech forums...I don't do so anymore. Its filled with utterly strange people who take over most threads and have their own feuds, factions, internal rules, ranks etc. and if you post there it is most often ignored or you won't get a good discussion going before its derailed. And said members have access to fanservice/catgirl avatars that no one has, and which "cheapens" the Battletech forums...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad anime/Lara Croft comic girls next to faction symbols.
The point? I didn't feel like I fit in at the Battletech forums and from talking to other fans I'm not the only one it seems.

Editted slightly.

[Skullheadhq]

Oh, didn't know that. We at the Romaioktonoi are not an exclusive, elite club. Everybody can join, and write his poems (nothing more hellenistic then poems ;), nevermind) and I'm sorry if some people feel like they are not part of it. As it isn't the purpose of the Romaioktonioi. Everyone that feels like they are not part of the Rhomaioktonoi, join us, it's great!

...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad women next to faction symbols.

O, would you do that for us? Oh that would be SO great! I would love to see that in the next preview

[oudysseos]

....Whatever.

[Moros]

Oh, didn't know that. We at the Romaioktonoi are not an exclusive, elite club. Everybody can join, and write his poems (nothing more hellenistic then poems ;), nevermind) and I'm sorry if some people feel like they are not part of it. As it isn't the purpose of the Romaioktonioi. Everyone that feels like they are not part of the Rhomaioktonoi, join us, it's great!

While I could imagine something like this could be fun in one AAR. Remember the wastelands? That was one funny AAR. But if we'd take the jokes from that AAR and keep reusing them at every possible occasion. Well that would be the end of it. Currently it used as an excuse or an inspiration for derailing threads, or just spam. It's not just that it isn't funny anymore, it's rather annoying. Especially for those who could spend more time working on EB, instead of deleting spam.
Note of course it's not just the Romaioktonoi. But it is part of it. And we don't mind the occasional off topic thread, or the occasional thread that goes off topic. But the conversation has to make sense, and not be a random collection of one sentence posts. I remember we had a beer thread long, long ago. While it wasn't about EB, the conversation was interesting. Noone had a problem with it. Then again it was also one of the very few off topic threads.
We can also understand that you guys can't talk about EB 24/7. But you have the tavern social group and of course the other sub forums as well here. And not to forget that there's a pm system and profile pages. All accessable by you and the freinds you made here. Personally I've posted off topic posts as well, my contributions usually don't have several paragraphs either,... But we ain't expecting you guys to post academic papers only. No, just keep it friendly, let's try to keep on topic most of the time, and let us have a decent standard level of conversation. Let's stop the in before the lock, useless spam (that gets deleted anyway) and were all happy.

I just can't see why anyone wants to risk a temporary or indefinate ban from the forum, just for some plain sillyness?

[Phalanx300]

That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum !

Very tempting to post the Soviet Anthem right now, I gues I shouldn't.


And am I lucky I'm not part of those Spamanoktoi anymore. I don't remember quiting it once though.

[DaciaJC]

I appreciate the EB team finally giving this situation the attention it deserves. I was a little more than severely annoyed at the spam in general.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

We, the Romaioktonoi leading class, have all accepted a Code of Honour to prevent these kind of things. Sorry if this affected the EB-fora to such an extent. We will now aim our energy on constructive only matters, and ignore anything that is pointed against us.

[-Praetor-]

In January this year I posted the following:

A final word: It just wrong that some of our most valuable members spend most of their times on the public forum moderating spam, trolling, flaming and off topic comments, instead of doing what they like: making EB stride forward. This incluides making new previews, coding new ideas and thinking of new ways to make EB unique and different from other mods. This current state of affairs has seriously slowed down the advance of our mod, and has demotivated me and others to participate in the public area.

Please, refrain to post messages that you know are considered expressions of flaming, trolling and spam.

It was in the Org forum rules thread that, as far as I see, close to no one has taken the time to review.

Frankly, after seeing these posts in this very thread:

Can we have Lorica Segmentata in EBII?

*Sound Applause to Sata and Krusader*
That's how liberty withers... Long live our spam free forum !

...imagine EB making sig banners with scanty-clad women next to faction symbols.

O, would you do that for us? Oh that would be SO great! I would love to see that in the next preview

Very tempting to post the Soviet Anthem right now, I gues I shouldn't.

I question myself if the community takes Krusader's post seriously, or if it had any true effect. Nobody is saying that this is serious business or something like that, all we are saying is that this is not the behaviour we expect from our community, and definitively not the level of debate we were hoping to incentivate by making EB.

Grow up.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I don't understand nor shall I probably ever do. Why does this thread have to be derailed as well?

C'mon if you want to contribute to these forums but can't find anything to do on other than by derailing threads in particular or furthering the spew of random garbage in general: there is no problem with not positing. You can still read, can you not?

There were pure spam threads in EB forums, there are, and there will always be; and nobody has a problem with that per se. However from there to actively hijacking other threads to the point of turning it into a SPAM cesspit is another matter entirely and lately we simply have seen too much of the latter to stomach. These forums are not Youtube music videos, you are expected to show more restraint here.

Again: if you've got nothing worthwhile to contribute (and antagonizing other people doesn't qualify as worthwhile here) just don't post. Why not take the time to read some AARS, especially those that make up EB lore (Wasteland sadly lost in the midst of time during a forum crash; but The World According to the Koinon is still there, and so are various other gems made by Orb); surely that is much more enjoyable than posting for the heck of it?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

[satalexton]

Regent, heteiros, Prudence.

Remember what I said, we leave this thread be.

[Foot]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

There is no humorous or enjoyable level to this. We are pissed off. We won't allow you to get off by simply making out that it is all some kind of joke. It is not and that will not work. The quotes above were spam, and your flat out denial of this changes nothing. You are part of the problem and your word has about as much weight with us as any troll on any other forum. If you cannot exist here under these conditions then I suggest you find yourself a new home. These forums are for the discussion of Europa Barbarorum, not for the creation of your own clubs and groups.

Foot

[Skullheadhq]

I, Megas Satalextos Zairon Airetikos Basileus ton Basileon Nikesas Barbaron, would apologize for Romaioktonoi's share of the havoc that was made recently in a few of the threads. That includes me, especially me. For as SymBasileus, I am not only responcible for my conducts, but those of my followers too.

From hence forth, I pledge that the Romaioktonoi will express views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc. We shall not use spam or make irelevant backlashes upon remarks directed at us.

And I shall use this opportunity to clarify that we have no intention to "usurpe" the spamming 'power-vacuum' that the Tavern has left behind. Spamming was never our original intent, trolling was never our purpose. Though slanderous and intently defaming, we are not without fault for projecting such an illusion to some.

Regretfully,

Satalexton

Can the EB team agree to this?
We will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?

[abou]

We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.

[Skullheadhq]

Didn't we said we wanted to stop spamming, and if you guys are OK with what we still wanted to do, AARs, artwork, screenshot competitions, we just asked for your APPROVAL of this. Can we have this, please?

We don't have some part in what the EB team decides, we just want to know what you think is OK and what is NOT

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Didn't we said we wanted to stop spamming, and if you guys are OK with what we still wanted to do, AARs, artwork, screenshot competitions, we just asked for your APPROVAL of this. Can we have this, please?

Leave it alone.

[Skullheadhq]

Leave it alone.

You're right. When I ask them if they're OK with it abou tells me to STFU.
Let's just don't give them anything to complain and then this will just go away, they can't take our social group away, can they?

[Foot]

I'm sorry you want to stop spamming? Then do so. If no one here likes it then why continue. We are not going to agree to a set of conditions with a non-group of people, who have just taken over our forums with their rubbish. You will agree to behave amicably on our forums, or you will not be on our forums. This forum is a space for EB, not a space for EB and Romaioktonoi. You want your own space, go do what the Tavern did and make one.

Foot

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.

[Skullheadhq]

First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.

Thank You.
We'll stop spamming

[Andres]

@-Praetor-:
That remark of mine was neither spam nor derailing the thread, nor were the other quoted remarks. It was just meant to bring the matter to a more humorous and thus enjoyable level. I thought that clear, but obviously it's currently not understood, so I removed it.

Maybe some of the EB team members are annoyed to such a level that they can no longer be humorous about it

Can the EB team agree to this?
If so we will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?

There's a lot of information in this thread and it should be clear that the appropriate course of action would be stopping it unconditionally.

Just my of course.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I question myself if the community takes Krusader's post seriously, or if it had any true effect.

Nah, excuse-me but I have some contempt for authority, regardless of the source . If I was a bad boy outside the strict limits of the EB Tavern spamfest, then I humbly ask the EB Team for stern forgiveness.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well, I have no idea who would have said he stopped spamming only under any condition. Maybe that has escaped me.

What I read in this thread is that members of the Romaioktonoi said they are sorry that some things went out of course, that they have decided to leave this and even that they won't react to spamming from other sides anymore.

That said, not mentioning that it's not the Romaioktonoi alone and other "professional" spammers even boasting about how great they spam and how bad Romaioktonoi are in spamming.

I can't see how anybody wanted conditions. As I said, we'll stop it and concentrate on constructive and creative things.

First of all, the Roman-haters aren't the worst out there. What is the most annoying it when people say things like "in before the lock" and will spam a thread that is already derailed. Then there are those who spam everything and are proud to have their threads locked. These are the people who will get banned if they continue. From my point of view, the Roman-haters are fine to continue hating Rome. The thing that we do not wish to see is pointless one liners like "destroy barbariopopolis" every time someone mentions something Roman. If you wish to argue against Rome or express your love of another culture, feel free to do so. Just do it in something more than a one liner and do not drive unrelated threads off course.

Thank you.

[vartan]

It's quite an interesting dialogue, reading this page from here. All I can say personally is that when going to the EB forum section of the Guild (and I go here as often as I can to check on updated posts), I am fairly annoyed by having to read so carefully through the many thread titles only to find that a good portion lead to ridiculous time-wasting reads. I'm happy with all the knowledge I gain from using these forums (which are thankfully free to access and use), but it's just unfortunate that a quarter of the time, it's simply reading through material that ends up as a big landfill of words. Hope things get better with time.

Good luck all,
Vartan

[Aemilius Paulus]

We don't have to agree to anything. You people seem to assume that you have some part in how the EB Team decides to run its fora. You don't, and it is as simple as that.

I personally agree with this. Whether it is my authoritarianism or my innate wish for order in life, I wish the EB Team would exercise more authority, when it can find the time to do so. I am immensely relieved this thread came up and hopefully will put an end to this madness.

I have nothing against anti-Roman posts and absolutely nothing against the people of that group, such as Maion and Satalexton, but when it clutters up these forums is when I cringe, although not at the people, but at the idea of the group itself. Romani-hating is perfectly fine, just as long as it is confined to the Social Group. Such as the EB Tavern and our off-topic discussions that got us Taverners in trouble. Taverners, namely Meth and ACIN used to be the past Romaioktonoi of the forums, a great bane. Then we turned to Social Groups, and what a wonder! Until the recent but brief ACIN resurgence, the EB Tavern has contained its off-topic material in its own group, and we became the most active single place AFAIK on .Org, with now about 13-14k posts.

I believe the Romaioktonoi should take this as an example, and create their own rich but contained community inside their SG. And now, more than ever, with the newly implemented SG thread system (may Tosa's name be forever praised!) the possibility for a splendid and vibrant community inside a SG is better than ever. EB Forums are for EB, and anything that interferes with EB, such as Romaioktonoi off-topic veering and/or spam is counter-productive, and thus should be banished. No reason, however, why it cannot exists in a SG. From my EB Tavern experience, the Romaioktonoi SG should be a marvellous place, as nothing beats your own SG.

Can the EB team agree to this?
If so we will stop our spam and only express our views and opinions in a rule-abiding manner, through artwork, poetry, screenshot competitions (we have one almost ready), tactical guides, AARs...etc.
What do you guys think, that will be a great relief for the fora. Agreed?

I also disagree. Because the manner in which this anti-Roman material is mentioned is provocative, it is incensive, it will generate some sort of comment, and no matter what will be the nature of that comment, threads will derail. If I posted anti-Greek/Hellenic comments, you people would surely post something in defence, clarification, discussion, query, arguments, etc, etc. Same with your comments, which can provoke response.

I am an atheist, but if I mentioned some bits of it here, it would perhaps evoke responses from other people, or at least quiet dissension/anger/annoyance. Thus, I do not mention my atheism here, and you should not mention your Romaioktonoi, and someoen else should not mention FYROM. All three cause controversy. All three lead to thread lockage. Whether you post it in "rule-abiding manner" is irrelevant. The result is the same.

Just take your stuff to your group, and everyone will experience "great relief". Especially your group, just like the EB Taverners did.