Describing One With His/Her Looks Abroad

[LeftEyeNine]

**This is a thread sufferers of native-language-speaker vanity ( s) should refrain from contributing**

Well, in Turkey, where fascism or racism never made it to the top and concerning levels compared to other countries way beyond ours by now, a "zenci" is someone who is black and a "çekik gözlü" is someone who has slanted eyes. No matter what it may have meant in essence (some claim that "zenci" is offensive which I had heard for the first time in my life), such general uses meant differentiation of someone from another by his uncommon looks, just to describe one, nothing else. I mean someone of such looks with a normal level of IQ who is adapted to life in Turkey wouldn't find such addressings offensive, nor the people would be utilising such words for hate.

Now, however, when it comes to other countries, it has different shapes, apparently. A very close Turkish friend of mine has recently married to a guy of Taiwan descent in USA. On a photo of hers on Facebook, I made up a fictional dialogue and addressed her fresh husband as "the guy with slanted eyes". Following that post of mine, my friend told me that her husband had felt a bit uneasy with the post and asked about with what intentions I might have written that. She has explained the situation and Mr. Taiwan showed understanding to my non-native speaker crash without making it any big hassle.

So, shorter to the point: Is it really dangerous to point out an Asian with their obvious characteristics over there ? How about the ones with dark skin colours ? Is it just a no-no ? Any harmless expressions ? All this goes back to times of slavery and WW or an oversensitive racism allergy ?

Thanks in advance.

**This is a thread sufferers of native-language-speaker vanity ( s) should refrain from contributing**

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So, shorter to the point: Is it really dangerous to point out an Asian with their obvious characteristics over there ? How about the ones with dark skin colours ? Is it just a no-no ? Any harmless expressions ? All this goes back to times of slavery and WW or an oversensitive racism allergy ?

Thanks in advance.

**This is a thread sufferers of native-language-speaker vanity ( s) should refrain from contributing**

People say "black" all the time and it's only oversensitive people that make a fuss about it. Slanty eyed I've never heard. If people don't commonly hear an expression from people they know aren't racist then it sounds racist.

[Vladimir]

I believe that if it makes references to racial characteristics that separates one from "the norm", it is considered offensive.



I don't know. I find some Polock jokes funny.

[HoreTore]

There is never a problem with words. The problem is always with what's behind those words.

Which is why that guy felt uneasy, he was unsure whether you hated his guts for being foreign or not.

[LeftEyeNine]

Come on, wouldn't calling one "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" make invitations for a brawl in most cases ?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There is never a problem with words. The problem is always with what's behind those words.

But people aren't mind readers. Language is how we figure out what's behind the words, along with expression and tone. Which is probably what got LEN in trouble, facebook comments have just the language.

There is often a problem with words though. You can say their shouldn't be, but there is.

[Vladimir]

Drop the "r" and you're good.

[HoreTore]

Come on, wouldn't calling one "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" make invitations for a brawl in most cases ?

No.

Only if I used it as an insult. If it's not an insult, where's the problem?

Which is probably what got LEN in trouble, facebook comments have just the language.

Indeed. But that was my point, wasn't it? It wasn't the word itself that upset the guy, it was the meaning behind it. He saw a word that most of the time is hateful(or whatever), and of course he took it as a hateful comment, as he didn't know what LEN meant by it. But it was what LEN meant when he used the word that upset him, not the word itself(assuming he's not a mental patient). If he already knew that LEN meant nothing by it, that it was a friendly comment, of course he would take it as a friendly comment no matter what word he used.

For example: My sisters bf is an arab. The times I actually use his first name instead of some random racial slur(like the n-word, "blackie boy", terrorist, al qaida, etc etc) are few. But he knows what I mean, and he knows I'm a friend, so of course he takes it as what it is, a friendly joke, and a sign of acceptance. If some drunk idiot screams the same words at him at a pub, of course he's going to react differently, and rightfully so. Same word, different meaning. Hence the meaning behind the word is the problem, not the word itself.

[Vladimir]

No.

Only if I used it as an insult. If it's not an insult, where's the problem?

The perception of the individual.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Come on, wouldn't calling one "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" make invitations for a brawl in most cases ?

Not a phyisical brawl, no, but it isn't going to go down well.

[Beskar]

According to the internet, Germans apparently refer to the Turkish as "Blackheads" (because of the dark/black hair). I am not entirely sure this goes further as a reference to blackheads.

But assuming it is not, does this seem offensive to you? If some one referred to you as being a Black Head (like you called that person slanty eyed)

[LeftEyeNine]

According to the internet, Germans apparently refer to the Turkish as "Blackheads" (because of the dark/black hair). I am not entirely sure this goes further as a reference to blackheads.

But assuming it is not, does this seem offensive to you? If some one referred to you as being a Black Head (like you called that person slanty eyed)

At first sight, no. However I incline to think that it would be disturbing had it been over repetitive.

[Centurion1]

The n word is different in america i guess. If you are white and you say the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules to a black dude you are going to either get in a fight or some serious verbal warfare is going to go down. That is probably because of the connotations from slavery left behind in america.

I am part Chinese and i make jokes all the time about being a chink, slanty eyes, pots and pan language, etc. My Japanese friend is the same way. However, if some random guy walked up and called me or my friend a slanty eyed person i would be angry. it depends on who says it (doubt anyone would know i am Chinese, i look pretty white).

Personally i think that people are too sensitive about race. especially in america. During this election if any white politician called barack obama a black man or even made mention of his race they were instantly labeled as racists. Also any black who demand to be called african americans can kiss my . i don't demand to be called a caucasian instead of a white person. it is just stupid in america people are so sensitive about the race issue even though it will never get better unless people don't even think about.

[Kadagar_AV]

Come on, wouldn't calling one "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" make invitations for a brawl in most cases ?

Only in America and on these forums.

[Hax]

Not a phyisical brawl, no, but it isn't going to go down well.

Unless blacks (the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules) use the word themselves.

There's a form of hypocrisy tied to it. When a Chinese man calls his Chinese friend a "something not pleasant" do we mind it? Of course not, because we know he's not discriminating Chinese people.

[Tuuvi]

I have quite a few hispanic friends and one native friend and we make jokes about our skin colors all of the time and no one seems to mind. In the area where I live the main minority groups are Latino, Native American and Samoan; These three groups all have brown skin so sometimes we use the word "brown" to describe someone who is Latino/Native American/Polynesian.

[HoreTore]

Unless blacks (the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules) use the word themselves.

There's a form of hypocrisy tied to it. When a Chinese man calls his Chinese friend a "slint-eyed/Chinky bastard" do we mind it? Of course not, because we know he's not discriminating Chinese people.

Of course not, and no, there's no hypocrisy there. Why? Because, again, the word doesn't matter, what matters is what meaning the word has. It's the underlying meaning that makes people angry, not the word itself.

[LeftEyeNine]

What is a word, HoreTore ?

[InsaneApache]

No.

Only if I used it as an insult. If it's not an insult, where's the problem?

I'm sorry but calling someone the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules is very offensive. My dad got into a bar brawl a couple of years back when some slopehead ex-pat called his wife the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules. He was 76 at the time. I wasn't sure if I was proud of him or ashamed that a septuagenarian would involve himself in fistycuffs. His wife joined in as well and she's pushing sixty.

[Strike For The South]

If I ever called someone a "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" I would expect to get punched and be thankful that I didn't get shot. And this is coming from a guy who enjoys putting down all shades of brown people.

That's just a word you don't use.

Anyone who thinks its just a word is either being obtuse or doesn't understand American history.

[Lemur]

If I ever called someone a "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" I would expect to get punched and be thankful that I didn't get shot. And this is coming from a guy who enjoys putting down all shades of brown people.

Actually, when I was living in Brooklyn, it seemed as though every teen called every other teen "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules." Very confusing. There was a group of Puerto Rican kids whom I was friendly with, and they were about as black as a bar of ivory soap, but they'd be calling each other "my the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" and "hey the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" every minute of the day.

I asked my boss, who was a native New York hispanic, what that was all about, and he looked at me like I was insane. "Sure, it's a word you use for friends. I'd call you my the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules anytime."

I guess that was a compliment.

Words change, words evolve, and lemurs just get confused.

[Strike For The South]

Actually, when I was living in Brooklyn, it seemed as though every teen called every other teen "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules." Very confusing. There was a group of Puerto Rican kids whom I was friendly with, and they were about as black as a bar of ivory soap, but they'd be calling each other "my the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" and "hey the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules" every minute of the day.

I asked my boss, who was a native New York hispanic, what that was all about, and he looked at me like I was insane. "Sure, it's a word you use for friends. I'd call you my the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules anytime."

I guess that was a compliment.

Words change, words evolve, and lemurs just get confused.

the other n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules does not equal the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules. And even among black friends none of them have ever refered to me as the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules nor do the hispanics use the term.

If a non black uses the term the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules and he's being serious he usually gets luaghed at for trying to hard. Different strokes I guess.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Gentlemen

Let me be very clear - as are the forum rules. These threads crop up from time to time and it is perfectly possible to discuss the topic without trotting out every racial insult one can think of in the perhaps mischievous hope the forum rules can be circumvented.

If it proves impossible to discuss this kind of topic without direct reference to offensive words, then the topic is best left to other web sites.

From this advice onwards, any further deployment of racially insulting language, however sly or innocent, will attract severe infraction points.

Thank you kindly.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Gentlemen

Let me be very clear - as are the forum rules. These threads crop up from time to time and it is perfectly possible to discuss the topic without trotting out every racial insult one can think of in the perhaps mischievous hope the forum rules can be circumvented.

If it proves impossible to discuss this kind of topic without direct reference to offensive words, then the topic is best left to other web sites.

From this advice onwards, any further deployment of racially insulting language, however sly or innocent, will attract severe infraction points.

Thank you kindly.

Does that mean I can't make Irish jokes about you trying to paint this thread green?

[Lemur]

Sorry for creating extra work for you, Banquo.

[HoreTore]

I'm sorry but calling someone the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules is very offensive. My dad got into a bar brawl a couple of years back when some slopehead ex-pat called his wife the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules. He was 76 at the time. I wasn't sure if I was proud of him or ashamed that a septuagenarian would involve himself in fistycuffs. His wife joined in as well and she's pushing sixty.

Yes, because it means hatred and racism almost every time. That is what people react to, the underlying hatred, that the speaker is trying to reduce them to something less.

However, is those who hear it know that's not the intention of the speaker, then there will be no problem, because there is no problem.

[Beskar]

Also any black who demand to be called african americans can kiss my

There is also another point to this. Not all black people are/were from Africa either. There are many other black peoples such as the Australian Aborigines, etc.

[HoreTore]

There is also another point to this. Not all black people are/were from Africa either. There are many other black peoples such as the Australian Aborigines, etc.

Which is why, if we want to group people, should call them names like "european", "african", "asian", "middle eastern", etc....

So, "african american" it is. Or just "americans", of course...

[Kadagar_AV]

the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules, what a waste of bandwith to write it out like that.

Anyway, why call black people africans? Not all african people are black...

Adressing by nationality is of course easiest, if you want to lump people together you can use colour, althouch that makes it very vague.

I usually call me black friends "the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules", only jokingly of course.

I also used it as a racial slurr when seeing newly arrived black people from africa steal my bike, then I shouted the f-word that is not permitted by the forum rules you the n-word that is not permitted by the forum rules!!!!!!!

[Kadagar_AV]

ON TOPIC: I must say the anti-n fraction has a point... The n-word has a history very different from the c-word, or g-word... Sure they are all degratory (sp?), but the n-word is admittedly more so.

To use it among close friends? No problem... To use it in an intellectual debate (if such can be found) is also ok, well, should be.

But any other use of the world should be reserved to when said in anger, to hurt the person in question. Anything else is wishful thinking, at best.



Interesting note though, in sweden we have the word "neger" (hope it's ok to spell it out). It's like a middle thing between negroe (is that ok to spell out?) and the n-word. It is VERY debated if it is a ok word for, say, policemen to use when describing suspects.

PS: I hope all these words were ok, would be problematic to describe it otherwise!