I would prefer to preserve the power of the Conseil to ratify any new province, no matter how it is acquired. If urgent, we can always vote to ratify possible targets of a land swap in advance.
The proposed amendment could be abused by an adventuresome Seneschal. For example if we somehow acquired Scotland in a trade, even if no one but the Seneschal wished to acquire it, under this proposal, the new lands would automatically be part of the Realm.
Yes, something like this would never happen. Scotland of all places! But I use the example to show my point.
The war against the Germans, however just, has put us into a very bad standing with the Holy Sea. Edict 2.2 ensures that it doesn't get worse and Edict 2.3 might improve the situation somewhat. If we truly want to impress the Papacy we will have to show it through our action. We have to repent for waging outright war and claiming the territory of a fellow Christian Kingdom.
In absence of a better way to redeem ourselves I propose the following Edict.
Edict 2.5:
The next Seneshal will send at least three priests to Cordoba, where they will spread Christianity.
Rescuing the infidels from the doorsteps of Hell through holy missionaries will surely redeem us in the eyes of the Papacy. Cordoba is the obvious target, the beating pulsing heart of the heathen threat to Iberia.
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
—chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age
The Princess is back in France. I will get briefed on the situation and speak more later.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
Originally Posted by TosaInu
At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.
Reeves urgently whispers into Hugues's ear. The Duc tries to bat him away like a bothersome fly.
Why in God's name would I want to do that!? I'd rather be drawn and quartered. . .by Elephants! Make yourself useful and get me some wine.
Reeves, undeterred, continues his whispering. The Duc loudly responds.
Damn! Yes, I suppose so. That's a good point.
Reeves continues on.
Alright! Enough! I understand. But you'll do all the paperwork!
Hugues composes himself and stands to speak again.
Hmmm. . .yes. . .ah. . .having consulted with my advisors and after careful deliberation, I have decided to. . .
Hugues shoots Reeves a poisonious glare.
. . .stand for the position of Seneschal.
It's come to my attention that Captain de Neufville may or not be legally qualified for the position. Certainly his claim is stronger than last time, but anything is better than nothing.
Right. . .ah priorities for my term. . .uh. . .yes.
Reeves hands Hugues some parchment.
Well, we seem to be in a spot of trouble with the Pope. Can't allow that to continue. There are already some edicts from the King concerning this, which I have seconded. We must assume a. . .
Hugues sighs audibly.
. . .defensive posture in our war with the Germans. That means no more marching into their land and killing their Emperor or Princes or taking their cities. Of course, they march into our land, they're fair game. We keep what we have taken, but keep the Pope happy. Or as happy as that sour old coot ever is.
Speaking of the war, it took us by surprise. . .
Hugues shoots a quick glance toward the Throne.
. . .well most of us. Which means we don't have the necessary buildings to recruit proper troops. Toulouse is the only place in the Kingdom where even peasant archers can be recruited, peasants! Cavalry is hard to find too. This needs to be addressed.
Now, if 2.2 passes, we'll be trying to make peace with the Germans. But it will take a while to get a diplomat to them and they are an obstinate and bloodthirsty people. . .unlike us of course. Peace is not a certainty. And other threats could emerge; the English, the Milanese and others. We have discovered agents of theirs in our cities. They can't be trusted to keep the peace, even though we are a. . .peaceful people seeking only co-existence.
So we need these military buildings so we can protect our cities, reduce our reliance on mercenaries and provide our Generals with balanced and reliable forces.
Now, that doesn't mean churches and markets are right out, but we need to find the correct balance. You need money for troops, but if you don't have decent troops, you've got nothing. We're playing catch up at this point.
As Seneschal I would also attempt to provide a level of coordination among our military efforts that has been. . .ah. . .lacking. Whether it was the Order sieging Bruges against the wishes of the King or marauding German armies bursting into our heartland, we need better communication between the various factions of the Kingdom. After consulting with field commanders and assessing the situation I would propose a comprehensive strategy for the deployment of armies at the beginning of the season.
Obviously, anyone would be free to ignore me, but it's a start. I was able to work with Duc Raymond in this very chamber to save Dijon, so I've done this before.
Well, That's it for my. . .uh. . .prepared statements. I'd be. . .uh. . .happy. . .to answer any questions the Conseil might have.
Alain reacts visibly to the words of the King, though not obvious, the tightening of his features and a slight narrowing of the eyes can be seen to all.
He rises slightly from his seat at the news of the Princess, but quickly resumes his seat in an effort of control.
Finally he shakes his head slightly as Duc Hugues makes his announcement. As the Duc finishes his statement he rises slowly and says in a quite but clear voice.
"I would seem prudent to determine if de Neufville is able to run for ze position of Seneschal."
Glancing at the throne for a moment.
"We would not want any misunderstandings before proceeding on zis and other matters of state."
Alain shakes his head with a rather incredulous look. He seems to be a little more animated than before, perhaps warming to the current topic, his accent thickening.
I seems quite incredible just how transparent ze Order of ze Fleur de Lys is, no?
Turning to Yvon he continues in a slightly condescending tone.
"I am sure my comments wont derail your man becoming ze next Seneschal.
Zis is just a small side show which perhaps provides a small bump in ze road to a preeminent position in ze Realm for ze Order.
You have ze ear of ze right man so...euh...zere is nozing to fear no?
I am simply asking how a province can be 'anded over before it is ratified.
Because...euh...Edict 2.1 'as not been passed, zerefore it is in ze King Demesne at zis time, no?
Or am I just being, 'ow you say..euh, 'inconvenient', no?
Of course I will pardon myself in advance if zis in not seen in a ze spirit of good will...euh, per'aps I 'ave been unduly influenced recently.
Again a glance a the throne.
Per'aps ze his most royal majesty, ze King of France, could make some comment for ze less enlightened nobles of ze realm, no?
Alain shakes his head with a rather incredulous look. He seems to be a little more animated than before, perhaps warming to the current topic, his accent thickening.
I seems quite incredible just how transparent ze Order of ze Fleur de Lys is, no?
Turning to Yvon he continues in a slightly condescending tone.
"I am sure my comments wont derail your man becoming ze next Seneschal.
Zis is just a small side show which perhaps provides a small bump in ze road to a preeminent position in ze Realm for ze Order.
You have ze ear of ze right man so...euh...zere is nozing to fear no?
I am simply asking how a province can be 'anded over before it is ratified.
Because...euh...Edict 2.1 'as not been passed, zerefore it is in ze King Demesne at zis time, no?
I am sorry, but have I become a member of the Order without me knowing? Perhaps you have mistaken for someone else Duc. I for one do not agree with some of the orders methods that is for sure, and so the comparison surely wounds me.
Yvon turns to the king
My King if that is what you believe I will follow you, however I am finding it hard to trust the shifty English with anything. I would be overjoyed if this diplomatic venue was successful, but I have some serious doubts.
Micheal D'Anjou
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
memory of the short lived king of Babylon Patrokles Adiabenikos
Peace, Chevalier Yvon - has the standing of the Order fallen so low that to be falsely associated with us is regarded as wounding? For my part, I am grateful to the Duc of Bretagne for his service to the realm as Seneschal. And yes, Duc Alain, the Order is very transparent - we are an Order of Chivalry established to defend the Kingdom and serve the King. We do precisely that and no more.
I offer my commiserations to my Captain, Gaspard Neufville, and offer my apologies to him for my having been premature with regard to the Order's possession of Antwerp. Given the unanticipated legal technicality regrading the transfer of ownership, I would humbly request that both candidates for Seneschal regard Gaspard as the de facto governor of Antwerp if the transfer is ratified and the King grants Antwerp to the Order. If the King wishes to establish a military centre in the North, perhaps Antwerp would be suitable? I would urge Gaspard to communicate privately with the King on this matter.
I wish both His Majesty and the Duc of Lorraine all the best in their competition for the post of Seneschal.
The King raises his hand, abruptly stopping all debate around the chamber, as all eyes turn towards the dais.
Mes Seigneurs,
The land has been granted but it has not yet been ratified by the Conseil. So if this Conseil doesn't see fit to ratify it, I'm afraid the Order will be deprived of its land.
Moreover, the land not being officially part of the Royaume pending its annexation cannot be considered a valid enough basis to run for the position of Senechal.
It is not that I do not trust Sieur de Neufville to make a good job of it but I fear that founding his term as Senechal on such unstable foundations would sap his authority and credibility, something which I could not condone.
The position must be one of respect and authority, subject only to the greater authority of the King.
Duc Hugues, I congratulate you on your candidacy.
It seems you will compete against me then in the upcoming election ?
For I will run for the position of Senechal myself.
Some time ago, a very wise remark was made by the Duc de Lorraine, from whom I quote :
Originally Posted by OverKnight
With respect, mon Roi, the only Seneschal whose performance would be completely satisfactory to your Majesty, would be, well, your Majesty.
Though that sounds like a truism, I cannot deny that it is full of good sense.
I have convened this body to help in the governance of the Royaume and to elect a man to second me and deal with the day to day burden of administering France.
I do not think that this has been an error, not yet but I should not impose such a burden on men not as well prepared as us Kings and Princes to deal with it. I had not planned for the Senechal to lead the country in times of war... I hadn't even planned to go to war... It has been forced upon us through the treachery of an unknown party and our duty to defend the Holy Father from his German agressors.
I should have convened an emergency session of the Conseil as the war started but I feared words would be less useful than actions and so prefered to ride against our assaillants, knowing that you would prove to France's enemies how strong its knights and soldiers could be when under attack.
But now, it is time for me to face my responsibilities as your sovereign and make every effort to stabilize the situation.
Hence, I will strive to bring peace to our Eastern border and will finalize the deal with William that will reunite Bretagne with the rest of the Royaume, bringing to an end its almost insular isolation. My own involvement as Senechal in negociating these treaties should add some weight and credibility to the negotiating table.
Should our German "brothers in God", for I dare not call them enemies wish to pursue their campaigns against us, they will find us resolute and prepared. Troops will be recruited to help defend our territory and if our coffers' fullness allow, I intend to make improvements to our provinces, mainly by specializing them. I intend notably to establish a second recruitment center in the North and make Bruges the leading trading center of France.
For all of this is my responsibility.
I hope you will give me your confidence in the coming term to lead us to the greater glory that Franks merit.
King Baldwin the Tyrant, King of Jerusalem, Warden of the Holy Sepulchre, Slayer of Sultans in the Crusades Hotseat (new write-up here and previous write-up here) Methodios Tagaris, Caesar and Rebelin LotR Mexica Sunrise: An AztecAAR
. . .well most of us. Which means we don't have the necessary buildings to recruit proper troops. Toulouse is the only place in the Kingdom where even peasant archers can be recruited, peasants! Cavalry is hard to find too. This needs to be addressed.
…
So we need these military buildings so we can protect our cities, reduce our reliance on mercenaries and provide our Generals with balanced and reliable forces.
Now, that doesn't mean churches and markets are right out, but we need to find the correct balance. You need money for troops, but if you don't have decent troops, you've got nothing. We're playing catch up at this point.
*Gontran rises to respectfully address the Duc.*
Mon Duc,
You may not be aware that Toulouse is currently capable of training a large number of light cavalry. Construction is underway on stables that will allow us to produce heavy cavalry. Fear not, we can adequately provide for the kingdom.
What the castle currently lacks is the ability to produce adequate infantry. Perhaps an exchange of light horse for spear militia would satisfy our current defensive needs.
Construction takes time and barring any “forgetfulness” on behalf of the Seneschal we can provide you with all your military needs.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
You may not be aware that Toulouse is currently capable of training a large number of light cavalry. Construction is underway on stables that will allow us to produce heavy cavalry. Fear not, we can adequately provide for the kingdom.
What the castle currently lacks is the ability to produce adequate infantry. Perhaps an exchange of light horse for spear militia would satisfy our current defensive needs.
Construction takes time and barring any “forgetfulness” on behalf of the Seneschal we can provide you with all your military needs.
Chevalier, I know Toulouse is our only source of professional fighting men, I do not count peasants from Metz or militia from some of the cities. But it should not be our only one. Men can be recruited easily, but it takes time to bring them to the fighting.
Also if a company of horse needed to be replenished after a battle, let's say outside Antwerp, it would have to travel all the way to Toulouse to be reinforced.
I thank you for your generous offer, an example of the increase coordination we need, and as Seneschal would accept. However, we should have acceptable soldiers available throughout the Kingdom.
Edit: Hugues blathers on until the King's statement penetrates his skull.
Ah, huh. . .um. . .oops. Well, best of luck mon Roi.
The stinkeye that Hugues gives Reeves is one of incredible intensity.
They day has turned on the Duc. He appears a bit dumbstruck.
Ah, your Majesty. . .are you assuming the office of Seneschal? Or are you putting me in the horrifically awkward position of competing against my Sovereign in an election that has no secret ballot?
Alain glances at Yvon and Hermant, a smile of knowing surprise on his face.
"Mon ami, I am shocked, and saddened at zis turn of events.
Euh...I apologize like a man wiz no arms at zis small piece of merde zat 'as appeared in ze Order play for power and prestige. I can only throw myself down at your mercy and beg for forgiveness.
A tutor in astrology once said to me; "Alain, you are a prize winning prick and you may 'ave won zis battle, but I will win ze war."
Per'aps it shall be zis way for ze Order. I of course sincerely 'ope zat is ze case."
Turning to Hugues with a rueful shrug.
"I like ze poster you gave me my friend. Per'aps we can change ze date and give it a second run in 15 years no?
Turning to the throne, with perhaps a sincere smile on his face, Alain claps loudly.
Ze King is taking ze philly by ze tail it would seem. Ze ride shall be as smooth as silk from now on!!
Philippe acknowledges Alain's words with a nod and a somewhat surprised look upon his face. He then turns to face the benches of Lorraine.
Duc Hugues, I have no wish to make use of my prerogative to assume the position of Senechal as is my right... I prefer to keep that opportunity if ever a graver crisis should ever arise, God forbids.
I want to know if I can have the support of my nobles to conduct the policy that shall be best for the Royaume.
You're welcome to contest this, Hugues... And I encourage you to do so but I feel you may have a lot on your hands in the coming years fighting off German incursions if they cannot persuaded to relent... I would not wish you to die through carelessness because your mind would be so burdened by the day to day menial tasks of ruling the Royaume...
And know that I will hold no grudge against those that deem Hugues more competent than your King and cast their votes his way... It would belittle the meaning of this whole institution...
King Baldwin the Tyrant, King of Jerusalem, Warden of the Holy Sepulchre, Slayer of Sultans in the Crusades Hotseat (new write-up here and previous write-up here) Methodios Tagaris, Caesar and Rebelin LotR Mexica Sunrise: An AztecAAR
Your majesty...ueh, would you be willing to stake a wager on ze ability for any man in zis council to successfully contest and win ze position of Senecschal against you?
You are indeed at least partially correct in my view my liege, because "it would belittle ze meaning of zis whole institution", if you were to contest ze elections without 'assuming' ze office, because no sane man stands a chance in an open election against 'is King.
Alain looks at Hugues and Gaspard with some interest.
Hugues's amazement turns to a grimace. The grimace turns to a wry smile. The wry smile to a predatory grin. His gaze is now fully focused on the King. He does not notice Reeves desperately trying to get his attention.
Your Majesty, how could I, as a loyal vassal, deny you a bit of sport? I hope the Stag will provide the Hunter with some amusement before he is inevitably felled by the hounds.
Gaspard de Neufville, aftering bearing the boring silence for too long, rises to speak.
"Bon messieurs, I wish to second Proclamation 2.1.
I believe that should any land be purchased by the Seneschal, it would naturally occur with consultation with la Roi and the major landholders of the royaume. Sometimes, it might be necessary to purchase land and utilise it immediately; without having it ratified through this body. Such an action should be used sparingly, however."
Gaspard resumes his seat.
Last edited by Ignoramus; 09-12-2009 at 07:08.
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***
"Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg
"The 3rd Conseil du Royaume is now open. It shall close for voting on the 20th of October at 00:00 EST, so make your edicts, amendments, and announce Seneschal candidacies while you can."
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.
Your majesty's pardon. I wish first thank his majesty for the epic victories he has won against the Reich. They have clearly drawn the attention of those outside the Royaume that the Franks are not a people to be trifled with. We are also appropriately grateful to his majesty that these conquered territories are to be shared among those who have performed due service to the Royaume.
May I suggest that chevalier Yvon be permitted some degree of forgiveness by his majesty for that last statement, because he does not, as put so aptly, know the specifics of this deal, concluded through most skilled and artful negotiation of the respectve crowns. Indeed, I do not. Does anyone share the confidence of his majesty as to what details are contained in this deal? Is our next diplomat merely delivering papers to be signed by your cousin or is there more to it than that?
I too share a certain level of disappointment with the results of our more formal diplomacy to date. Yet I do take into account that the offers alone do not make the diplomat. The skills needed for such a craft take many years to perfect and are not always easy even in more peaceful times when suspicions are not so great among men. I know of the man in Scotland representing us, and I dare say he is fairly new at the game and as a result at times he has difficulty convincing others that the sky is up. Under normal circumstances I would wish he had more time and better circumstances in which to work, but sadly he does not. Were that our princess have been available, perhaps this negotiation could have been concluded some time ago, and it is indeed joyous news she has returned to us once more.
But I stray too far from my question. What specifically must happen in order for this deal to be struck with your cousin, sire?
Also, if elected Seneschal, I would cede all diplomatic negotiations with the Anglais to the King. His Majesy knows them better than I. This way we would avoid. . .um. . .any misunderstandings.
Your Majesty, I wonder if you would consider revising Edict 2.2 so that it is contingent on the Reich remaining within the Church? Suppose the Reich is excommunicated for constantly attacking us and the Holy Father calls a crusade against it. With Edict 2.2, we would be forced to stand aside and watch good Christians die for us while we do nothing. If the Reich becomes an outcast nation, I do not believe we need constrain ourselves in the manner of Edict 2.2.
Bon messieurs, it has come to mon attention that I am unable to run for the office of Seneschal. This is of little consequence as now that mon Roi has indicated he is standing, I respectfully withdraw my candidacy anyway.
I do apolgise to this esteemed chamber for once again standing in error, for a position so important to the governing of the land. Do forgive me.
On other matters, it has come to mon attention that we have only one decent port, and that is in the Comte de Toulouse. I am concerned that we have no ports capable of sustaining any meaningful trade or providing the rudimentary ships for transporting horses and men upon our northern shores. Indeed, the Duc d'Bretagne was forced to hire shipping in order to make his excursion to Wales. I sincerely hope that we need not be forced to do so again.
Therefore, I propose the following Edict.
Edict 2.7: "During the next Seneschal's term, a port is to be constructed in either Bretagne(Rennes), Flandres(Bruges), or Brabant(Antwerp)."
The cost of such a construction is high, but I believe that the trade alone should be worth the investment."
Gaspard resumes his seat.
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***
"Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg
Re: Conseil du Royaume
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Originally Posted by TosaInu
Micheal D'Anjou
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