Kung Fu Mafia III [Concluded]

[Renata]

You know there is a actually a line, there is disagreeing with some one then there is trying to insult them.

First, if I insulted you, I am really sorry. I realize you don't know me at all yet, but I don't try to make it habit to try to do that.

I draw a massive fallacy in your argument, any sane Mafia would kill (or in this game, attempt) to kill any confirmed innocents straight away, because lets be honest, get to late game and you got those "confirmed innocents" and the "unknown", the Mafia would instantly be in hot water. Thus, your whole idea of a "Confirmed Town" will not be there (hence the flaw).

Okay, here's what you actually wrote, in response to the two comments by ATPG and me.

Then the Mafia would obviously exploit this by feigning kills on each other or by making sure they get killed.

This was in response to both of us arguing that abstention made no sense for Townies in this game. We gave multiple reasons for that, which boiled down to: votes for Ninjas give you points; points help you survive kill attempts; survived kill attempts help Town.

Whatever the flaw in the details of what I said, the basic concept is solid. Actual votes (as opposed to absentions) help Town by increasing the number of Townie votes placed on Ninjas. In turn that makes it harder for them to kill us, which could make a big difference over time, in several ways. Yet you didn't acknowledge that aspect at all; you just pointed out a perceived flaw in one possible consequence.

That's what I'm objecting to, what I find scummy. A pro-Town suggestion was made (pro-Town regardless of whether I'm right or not about confirmed Town), and your snap reaction was to characterize one aspect of it (incorrectly, as ATPG pointed out) as something Mafia could exploit, never even addressing the core of it.

It isn't lousy reasoning or "but but but". It is more pointing out the big flaw in your plan. Sorry that pointing out this flaw hurt your master plan but really... Askthepizzaguy however did raise some good points, about even if the Mafia did do that, there would be certain advantages to it, this is called a "positive contribution" to the discussion, opposed to attacking some one.

I then agreed to his points and conceded to it, which was another way at looking at the situation (opposed to the one you suggested). Ergo, using your point and by the criticism and discussion that followed, we actually do as a town, have a good basis and point which puts the Ninja in a really awkward position.

I'll just point out that you never said anything about ATPG's points being good ones until after I had voted you, which was a pretty decent time lag. Here's what you said then:

Well, since are are talking about "confirmed innocents", wouldn't the Mafia try to make sure 'they' died? I mean, that is pretty basic stuff. Though however, Pizzaguy did mention the benefits of this happening.

Calling this agreement and concession is a bit of a stretch, but OK.

Regarding the confirmed Town thing, by the way, I'll concede you're right to an extent. The Ninjas will, if they're smart, try to remove as many "survivors" as they can. It's not impossible they'll be able to get them all, at any given time. But they do already have two on their hands, which means if they want to get rid of them, their choices for this phase are already constrained. That's good for us. This time it was apparently down to sheer horrible luck on the Ninjas' part. Down the road it might be the success of Townie voting that makes the difference.

Now for alternative hypothesis, are you a Ninja trying to prey on what you might perceive as an easy target using a flawed reasoning of your own as a basis, or is it more of a personal vendetta?

Beskar, honestly, how could I have a personal vendetta against you? I don't even know you! As for the other part, it isn't the case, but there's really nothing I can say about that. People will have to judge for themselves if it looks more opportunistic or more reasoned. But seriously -- vendetta?