Faction List for EB2?

[Phalanx300]

That's why there is a semantic difference between "being cloned" and "being similar".

Well if we look at the Cherusci and the Chatti their society and warriors were also different. Similar as comparing Spartan and Syracusian Hoplites in EB.

[ziegenpeter]

Well if we look at the Cherusci and the Chatti their society and warriors were also different. Similar as comparing Spartan and Syracusian Hoplites in EB.

Well but Cherusci and Chatti are already in the Sweboz unit roster and cutting them would leve a hole in the already small roster.
Plus, we have no records about different germanic tribes in 272bc but even for later times, I wouldn't know how to tell them apart by anything else but their name and location. If you have literature about this subject, I'd be greatful if you posted it.

[WinsingtonIII]

I don't think it makes sense to give a faction slot to the Maccabean Kingdom. As has been stated on the EB1 forums many a time, it doesn't make sense from a gameplay or historical perspective. In terms of gameplay, they would almost certainly be crushed by the AS or Ptolies within the first 10 years, meaning that unless the player is playing them (or the AS or Ptolies), you're never going to even see them. Historically, a Maccabean Kingdom would be content with controlling the Jewish homelands, and would certainly not have any interest in building a huge empire, which is what would happen if they were controlled by the player. They are best represented by strong rebels and an especially rebellious population (which will be much better represented in EB2 due to the "people" buildings and the inclusion of more religious aspects).

[-Praetor-]

There's absolutely no way we are going to have a Jewish faction in EBII.

This was announced in 2007 already.

Deal with it.

[Owen Glyndwr]

And yet there will still be hundreds of "Will there be a Jewish faction" threads between now and EBII's release date.

[WinsingtonIII]

There's absolutely no way we are going to have a Jewish faction in EBII.

This was announced in 2007 already.

Deal with it.

If this was in response to my post, I hope you understand that I was agreeing with you and trying to explain the reasoning behind it... I hope I wasn't misunderstood.

[resodan]

What about Meroe? I found EB I left little to do in NE Africa. Meroe was an established and important kingdom at the time of the beginning of the mod and continued to be well into the Roman period. Meroitic armies invaded Roman Egypt and Roman armies struck back into Meroe. Furthermore, Meroe was an important trade area and something of an intermediary between the Mediterranean world and the African interior. I'd suggest Aksum/Axum, too, but that empire arose too late to qualify.

The land of Kush/Meroe/Nubia was known from millenia to produce excellent archers and brave, if ill equipped, infantry and cavalry. There are certainly good units to be made. Furthermore, both Romans and Kushites fought the Blemmyes, likely the ancestors of the modern Beja and inhabitants of the arid, gold rich Red Sea hills straddling the modern borders of Egypt and Sudan. Blemmye mercenaries could be new unites, as could Noba mercenaries in the far south.

The map could therefore include a few new provinces. One for the Blemmyes, and a few in Kush/Nubia, perhaps with borders at the cataracts of the Nile.

It doesn't make sense to me to include two nomadic, Iranian factions (Saka Rauka and Sarmatians) which did not have centralized political control, yet not include a long-lasting, economically and geopolitically important centralized state that fits within the geography and time frame of the mod. There is plenty enough information out there on the Meroitic period to create a faction, and I'd be happy to contribute information or at least recommend sources to check out (like archaeologist Derek Welsby's books). I'm glad to see the the Numidians included, I just hope the Meroites will be as well!

[WinsingtonIII]

The map could therefore include a few new provinces. One for the Blemmyes, and a few in Kush/Nubia, perhaps with borders at the cataracts of the Nile.

I think one of the problems with including Meroe is at least partially that it is on the very edge of the map. M2TW has the same province limit as RTW, so I sort of doubt that the EB team is going to remove 5 or 6 provinces from other parts of the map to put them all in one place at the very bottom of the map where most factions will never reach them.

[A Very Super Market]

Not enough culture slots.

Wensington, the EB team doesn't hold gameplay over historical accuracy. If Meroe could have been better represented, a province would likely have been cut to make room for it.

[-Praetor-]

If this was in response to my post, I hope you understand that I was agreeing with you and trying to explain the reasoning behind it... I hope I wasn't misunderstood.

No worries, I understood what you said. I was repying to the continuous lobby made to incluide a Maccabean kingdom 100 yers earlier than it even existed.

There are like ten factions that we would prefer to incluide before the Maccabeans: the Cimbrians for instance, that ravaged through half of Europe, or the Yuezhi that flared the far east. But they are not making in because they appear too far from our starting year, even though they did shape this part of the world significantly.

The Maccabean kingdom didn't even do that.

[Phalanx300]

Well but Cherusci and Chatti are already in the Sweboz unit roster and cutting them would leve a hole in the already small roster.
Plus, we have no records about different germanic tribes in 272bc but even for later times, I wouldn't know how to tell them apart by anything else but their name and location. If you have literature about this subject, I'd be greatful if you posted it.

They aren't a part of the Sweboz roster, you can conquer them and they become part of your regional roster.

Their traditions, the Chatti would remove the hair in the face once they made their first kill and would remove and iron ring around their neck. The Cherusci were known for their swords(but I think this still means the spear is the main weapon especially if they used oversized spears in the first rank) and close shield walls.

[ziegenpeter]

They aren't a part of the Sweboz roster, you can conquer them and they become part of your regional roster.

I'm pretty sure, they are enabled by the native MIC.

No worries, I understood what you said. I was repying to the continuous lobby made to incluide a Maccabean kingdom 100 yers earlier than it even existed.

As I wrote before: What do we know about the sweboz and casse around 272bc? Not much I think, but they were in. So why not a Maccabean kingdom?

[bobbin]

As I wrote before: What do we know about the sweboz and casse around 272bc? Not much I think, but they were in. So why not a Maccabean kingdom?

Because we know it didn't exist in 272BC.

[Ludens]

As I wrote before: What do we know about the sweboz and casse around 272bc? Not much I think, but they were in. So why not a Maccabean kingdom?

Because it didn't exist at all in 272 BC? Jerusalem was at that point controlled by the Ptolemeans. Furthermore, although with hindsight it was very important from a religious perspective, at the time the Maccabean revolt was little more than a local uprising against Seleucid rule. They certainly weren't an expansionist faction, so why give a faction slot to them if they could just as well be simulated by independents?

[ziegenpeter]

OOOPS! I totally confused the Maccabean kingdom with Meroe... Mea culpa.
Of course a jewish faction would be inapropriated.

[Foot]

OOOPS! I totally confused the Maccabean kingdom with Meroe... Mea culpa.
Of course a jewish faction would be inapropriated.

Reasons why no Meroe (but please do try searching, as we cannot spend all our time answering the same questions over and over and over again).

1. No Culture Slot - Meroe are an Ethiopian faction, but they would look Arabian.
2. No Provinces - Most of Meroe and its expansion would be off the map. Edge factions are dodgy to begin with.

There are others, but they are not really necessary. The above is enough to express why Meroe aren't in EBII. Comparing the viability of Meroe to that of the Casse and the Sweboz is simplistic.

Foot

[athanaric]

They aren't a part of the Sweboz roster, you can conquer them and they become part of your regional roster.

For Swêboz, all Germanic units are recruitable from the factional MIC only.

I don't see Cherusci or Chatti in. They are too close to the Swêboz and general knowledge is kinda sketchy anyway. Well, Chatti perhaps. But I would much rather bet on a Celtic faction.