Calling out the mods.

[Fixiwee]

AZ and Sub actually asked for it. If they wouldn't have posted their stupid links we might have gotten away with it. But drawing attention was stupid and something like that was bound to happen.

But I also disagree that Tosa and the mods are like "it's a decission and we wont allow anyone to say something about it." This has a "either you accept it or you get out" mentality.

[TosaInu]

Hello,

There are forumrules and topics about moderating the behaviour in social groups in this forum for long, very long. You don't expect me to beg you everyday to keep your group clean, do you?

By far the easiest thing is to boot the whole group, seriously. I would not need excuses if my whim told me to do so and in this case I do not need more excuses either, as the group has already provided enough. Sure, there are good discussions, but I am not going to inspect 1,000's of posts to check what can stay and what can not.

Start a new EB group, keep it tidy and all is ok.

[Crazed Rabbit]

But I also disagree that Tosa and the mods are like "it's a decission and we wont allow anyone to say something about it." This has a "either you accept it or you get out" mentality.

Indeed it does, because that's the way it is. This isn't a democracy or any sort of popular rule.

The rules are clear, and there's many ways to set up communication outside of the Org; quicktopics, VB forums, etc.

CR

[Fixiwee]

Indeed it does, because that's the way it is. This isn't a democracy or any sort of popular rule.

The function of a forum is that people comunicate with each other right?
I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?

[drone]

I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?

Yes, that is what the Watchtower is for.

Don't know the whole details, but we have had the discussion about groups and profiles before. Forum rules apply, even if there is no standard moderation. Piracy/pr0n are verboten. Language is technically against the rules, but will likely be ignored unless attention is drawn.

Sounds like rules #1 and #2 were ignored, and the discussion leaked into the main forum and attracted mod attention.

Start a new EB group, keep it tidy and all is ok.

Your crew are pretty active members, and do contribute to the community in the normal forums. Just learn to compartmentalize...

[Fixiwee]

Sounds like rules #1 and #2 were ignored, and the discussion leaked into the main forum and attracted mod attention.
Your crew are pretty active members, and do contribute to the community in the normal forums. Just learn to compartmentalize...

No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

There is a bottom-line and that is that there are some things that cannot do and majority of these can be enforced by the server host, so it is not even up to Tosa to decide it should be allowed or not, as it is the server policy not to have those things,

Should the forum face consequences and possibly shut down because some members couldn't behave themselves? The answer is obviously no.

You are completley exaggerating. I don't believe that you have any idea why the place was deleted.

TosaInu as far as I am aware, just deleted it and went "Right, just create a new one and don't let it get like that again." after there have been warning and comments all done before. One of the worse things as a staff-member is when the forum starts becoming a job rather than something you enjoy. I remember when I was a moderator, that it can easily get into the case where some things really do become a hassle and it is like some members just do it to purposely just to cause trouble.

I'm not causing trouble, yet I am affected. That's hardly fair.

What TosaInu might have been seen as harsh at first, but he has warned and commented on this area before and it was the members of the group that caused all the trouble who are at fault, not TosaInu and the staff-members.

Contacting Appo, the group owner, upfront might have been a good idea. The whole thing was presented with a fait accompli, and we were not even allowed to complain at first. Hardly a diplomatical action, you have to anticipate negative reaction for that.

Of course you can, within the forum rules.

At first I couldn't. Tosa deleted and said there was no discussion. Topic locked after creation. Fait accompli.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, and you people are certainly intelligent enough to figure out what it is. So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC. I have no real idea why, but I imagine I wouldn't be far off the mark if it happened to be under similar circumstances, right ? Don't tell me, I really don't care. That was way in the past, and we are concerned with the immediate present.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The EB tavern was formed here in the org as a thread. It was closed due reasons I have no clue, because I wasn't there back then.
If you are concerened with the immediate present, why do you bring the past up. I'm not able to understand the point you are trying to make.

You know, it's funny. This is the only social group at the org that I am aware of that has ever been deleted. In fact, this is the only social group that I can recall with multiple reported posts for unacceptable content. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it, and I don't believe for a minute that all the other groups are 100% choir boys. However, despite that and the lack of moderator super-nannies looking over their shoulders they manage to get along here without any undue trouble.

Yeah. Because Aza and Sub posted links outside the tavern that drew attention. AP basicly asked to be banned aswell.
I am dead sure if those posters wouldn't have messed it up in such a short timespan, no mod would have cared for the minor slips in language there.

This forum is very tolerant when it comes to allowing serious rule breakers back, more so than any other place I've ever been. However, it would be a mistake to take that as a weakness to be exploited.
I'm not speaking for Tosa or anyone else, but as far as I know and am concerned all are welcome to stay including those that are currently temporarily banned. This has always been the policy since I've been here. However, that is up to each of you. All y'all are in total control of your individual circumstances here.

I don't see the connection here. If we all seriously broke the rules, we should get infraction points or bans. Because of language. Deleting the whole group was collective punishment that affected people who posted there and did not break any rules.

[miotas]

Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.

[Fixiwee]

Fixi, I too am very dissapointed that one of my favourite places on the internet has been deleted, but it's tosa's forum, he can do whatever he feels is right. I'm more annoyed that Subo and Az went crazy and drew attention to us.

As I pointed out. I am not defending their actions. That was really stupid and I don't want anything to do with it. As you know well enough that many of our members didn't agree with the concept of trolling the org.
Of course Tosa can delete anything and everything. But there is also something called empathy...

[pevergreen]

miotas you know better than that.

Its fine to do x as long as nobody finds out?

The group broke rules. The EB tavern thread in the frontroom was opened and closed a few times IIRC because of the same thing.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

Right, so when you went to the social group, did it or did it not have forums.totalwar.org in the URL? Yes? Part of the forums. Why should the rules be different just for you in a slightly removed spot? You have the entire internet to blow off steam.

There are free to host forums! Quicktopics! Email! Maybe it didnt have the feel of the org, but the org has the feel because that stuff is not tolerated.

If a social group on a game forum was the only way you had in keeping in contact with your internet friends...you should at least had emails.

The group of you seem to be acting way under your age and normal maturity levels, however low they sometimes go for a few of you.

[drone]

No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

[Furunculus]

you kids................... *tuts*

[Fixiwee]

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

I don't talk about this! ;)

(Sorry for going OT, but this had to be said)

[Beskar]

There is a bottom-line and that is that there are some things that cannot do and majority of these can be enforced by the server host, so it is not even up to Tosa to decide it should be allowed or not, as it is the server policy not to have those things,

Should the forum face consequences and possibly shut down because some members couldn't behave themselves? The answer is obviously no.

TosaInu as far as I am aware, just deleted it and went "Right, just create a new one and don't let it get like that again." after there have been warning and comments all done before. One of the worse things as a staff-member is when the forum starts becoming a job rather than something you enjoy. I remember when I was a moderator, that it can easily get into the case where some things really do become a hassle and it is like some members just do it to purposely just to cause trouble.

What TosaInu might have been seen as harsh at first, but he has warned and commented on this area before and it was the members of the group that caused all the trouble who are at fault, not TosaInu and the staff-members.

As AVSM, who I believe is a Taverner pointed out:

If you want someone to be pissed at, it was Az and Subotan (And probably AP) that took it outside the bloody group.

Also drawing attention to the moderators to what was actually inside the group as well which broke a lot of the ground rules.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The function of a forum is that people comunicate with each other right?
I am allowed to state my opinion about the mods actions right?

Of course you can, within the forum rules.

AZ and Sub actually asked for it. If they wouldn't have posted their stupid links we might have gotten away with it. But drawing attention was stupid and something like that was bound to happen.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, and you people are certainly intelligent enough to figure out what it is. So, think way back when all y'all were removed from TWC. I have no real idea why, but I imagine I wouldn't be far off the mark if it happened to be under similar circumstances, right ? Don't tell me, I really don't care. That was way in the past, and we are concerned with the immediate present.

You know, it's funny. This is the only social group at the org that I am aware of that has ever been deleted. In fact, this is the only social group that I can recall with multiple reported posts for unacceptable content. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it, and I don't believe for a minute that all the other groups are 100% choir boys. However, despite that and the lack of moderator super-nannies looking over their shoulders they manage to get along here without any undue trouble.

This forum is very tolerant when it comes to allowing serious rule breakers back, more so than any other place I've ever been. However, it would be a mistake to take that as a weakness to be exploited.
I'm not speaking for Tosa or anyone else, but as far as I know and am concerned all are welcome to stay including those that are currently temporarily banned. This has always been the policy since I've been here. However, that is up to each of you. All y'all are in total control of your individual circumstances here.