Snakes & Foxes: Mortal Kombat [Concluded]

[Choxorn]

If the above is true then the people who bet on Sub-Zero and are probably innocent (again nothing is proven but gives us a clue):
Yaro, ATPG, JohnHugh, Seon, Split

I bet on Sub-Zero too...

Anyway, Johnny Cage and Jax should fight tommorow morning.

[Gekkamir]

The Drow Brigade isssss going to win thissss tournament. Don't doubt that.

Oh theres no doubt about it. We have too many cool kombatants to lose.

[Thermal]

Point out the fallacy in my logic then. I think it's pretty clear.

Beskar - sending mana back to you after I finish typing this.

If you bothered to reply to what I said much earlier in the thread, you would see many fallacys crystal clear in front of you.

Such as: Why should there be a mark in every team? That would be 5 marks, I think not (5 mafia in a 14 player game?). Plus I doubt Sprig would be predictable enough to distribute them equally. CCRunner has played these before and said as much.

Plus I didn't rake any money in last round because I didn't gamble (you said I did ) I find it laughable that you want to exterminate team 1 yet still want our money.

Furthermore, as I'll obviously need to repeat for you, the chances of finding a mark aren't that high even if you gathered 1500 mana, its too much money to waste, and given the amount of marks you reckon there are, 1500 mana = 1 marks identity doesn't even sound that appealing, and that's hoping that it will work.

[Gekkamir]

I remember this one Snakes and Foxes style game in which there was no mark and the people who fought at night were simply chosen at random. The only objective was to be the winning team. I liked that game.

[Sprig]

I remember this one Snakes and Foxes style game in which there was no mark and the people who fought at night were simply chosen at random. The only objective was to be the winning team. I liked that game.

Interesting, where was that played?

And are you saying you don't like this?

[Gekkamir]

No, I like this game very much. And I don't actaully remember where I played it, I just remember the game.

[Choxorn]

Might have been one of the CFC games (he's on CFC too, he just goes by a different name), but both of the ones he was in had a mark. I think he's just making that up to point out what he wishes the game was like.

[Gekkamir]

No, it wasn't on CFC. I dont remember where it was but it wasn't there.

[Centurion1]

i like the mark idea except for the fact i cant trust my teammates totally

[Sprig]

i like the mark idea except for the fact i cant trust my teammates totally

Which is the most awesome point. You kinds have to screw yourself to have a chance to win. because if you will always want your teamamate to win and they are almost always going to ask to borrow some mana, yet you could be helping a mark for all you know.

This kind of game really needs more players though. Three per team is really tough, five to six would be a good number. If there is further interest, I may just host a larger version (if i get some help).

[Gekkamir]

The thing I liked about the no mark game was that you could focus on the fights, instead of having to split your efforts between being the last team standing and making sure the mark don't win. It was more fun that it sounds.

[Sprig]

Mortal Kombat

Evening 0

The sun started to set, another crowd had gathered for it was time for the next fight. Anxiety was high as ’The Suction Mages’ had a member participating in a battle for the second time that day. Not that Raiden’s Raiders were not that comfortable either as two members had rather big losses due to some poor betting but this time it was the Thunder God himself and surly he couldn’t lose. The two fighters made their way to the arena, amidst the jeers of the crowd. The arena that Scorpion had chosen was ‘The Tomb’ and Scorpion would do his best to make it Raidens Tomb. The fighters stuck there poses waiting for the signal to start. Shao Kahn stood up and declared “Fight”

Scorpion instantly released his spear and sent it flying towards Raiden, however Raiden teleported harmlessly behind Scorpion.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And with Scorpions back turned, Raiden let out a blast of electricity that caught Scorpion by surprise.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Raiden was one to take the most of any advantage and flew superman style right into Scorpion while he was still recovering and slammed him into a wall.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Scorpion coughed up some blood as he picked himself up slowly. He was badly hurt by the sudden onslaught but he wasn’t going out like this. He fake releasing his spear and as he expect Raiden teleported away right into the true path of scorpions spear. With the spear lodge firmly into Raidens shoulder, Scorpion yelled out “Come here!” and he tugged on the connecting rope.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Raiden was helpless to stop what was coming next. The blow was huge and launched Raiden into the air.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was Scorpion’s turn to be ruthless, now that he had the advantage he wasn’t going to relent. Raiden put up his guard expecting another frontal attack but blink his eyes as scorpion disappeared from in front of him.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Raiden was out of options, he could sense this battle slipping away from him. He teleported away from each blow but Scorpion was getting closer each time. Scorpion got a bit to close however and Raiden grabbed him.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With Scorpion thrown to the floor, Raiden get up his teleports to try and disorient Scorpion. He was getting tired, they both were and they both knew that battle would not last much longer. Raiden had one last trick up his sleeve. He teleported in close.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With Scorpion distracted by kid thunder, all it would take is one Uppercut.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Raiden Wins !!! Raiden threw his arms up in the air to celebrate. However he heard a sound of something metal hitting the ground. He looked to where a pool of blood was forming and saw a medallion. He picked it up and recognised it as belonging to one of the demon earth gods.

Raiden Called out in a loud Voice
“This man was a Mark!

Raiden receives his share of the battle spoils, 425 mana. The last remaining member of ’The Suction Mages’ receives 425 Mana.

With the fight concluded Shao Kahn stood up and announced the the constants for the next battle would be Johnny Cage and Jax, with Jax taking arena advantage.

=================================================

Betting:

Odds: 1.2-1

Khazaar wins 321 Mana
Askthepizzaguy wins 138 Mana
Yaropolk wins 92 Mana

=================================================

Tally:

Johnny Cage – 9.4 (Cultured Drizzt fan, CCRunner, johnhughthom, Centurion1, Gekkamir, Khazaar, Yaropolk, Seon, Choxorn)
Jax – 7.2 (Centurion1, Thermal Mercury, Cultured Drizzt fan, Khazaar, Seon, Gekkamir, Choxorn)
Reptile - 4.3 (CCRunner, Beskar, johnhughthom, Yaropolk)
Kung Lao – 1.1 (Beskar, ,)
Liu Kang - 2 (Askthepizzaguy, spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
Kitana - 2 (Thermal Mercury, spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
Kintaro – 1 (Askthepizzaguy)

=================================================

GM Comment:
Marks may now make their picks.
Contestants may place bets on the upcoming fight between Jax and Johnny Cage.

[Thermal]

[Yaropolk]

WTG Raiden, I like your Friendship move!

We can assume the following are all lies:

Such as: Why should there be a mark in every team? That would be 5 marks, I think not (5 mafia in a 14 player game?). Plus I doubt Sprig would be predictable enough to distribute them equally. CCRunner has played these before and said as much.

Plus I didn't rake any money in last round because I didn't gamble (you said I did ) I find it laughable that you want to exterminate team 1 yet still want our money.

Furthermore, as I'll obviously need to repeat for you, the chances of finding a mark aren't that high even if you gathered 1500 mana, its too much money to waste, and given the amount of marks you reckon there are, 1500 mana = 1 marks identity doesn't even sound that appealing, and that's hoping that it will work.

I think this lends credence to the 1 mark / team theory, and also clears Mileena, the last remaining member of T1.

With Raiden cleared by the writeup, it would point to one of Kung Lao (ATPG) or Kitana (Split) as a mark. ATPG vehemently opposed my collaboration plan just as TM did, but on the other hand he lost a ton of mana betting on Subzero (an Innocent), and then won by betting on Raiden (annother Innocent).

Split on the other hand has been quiet and nonconfrontational, I think he's a mark.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Thermal]

Though I was a mark, I very much would have said and done the same things if I was a townie. It didn't make an awful lot of difference to me.

Sorry john, I thought I had a good chance that winning but my spear missed. Though I'm sure that's no use given my role

[Yaropolk]

Sorry john, I thought I had a good chance that winning but my spear missed. Though I'm sure that's no constellation given my role

Come on Scorpio, thank heavens you got to be a star for five minutes.

[Khazaar]

Sprig, I´m a bit confused about my winnings. How did I make 321 when I bet 175 with a rate of 1.2? Do we pay taxes?

175* 1.2= 210 plus 175= 395?

[Askthepizzaguy]

WTG Raiden, I like your Friendship move!

We can assume the following are all lies:



I think this lends credence to the 1 mark / team theory, and also clears Mileena, the last remaining member of T1.

With Raiden cleared by the writeup, it would point to one of Kung Lao (ATPG) or Kitana (Split) as a mark. ATPG vehemently opposed my collaboration plan just as TM did, but on the other hand he lost a ton of mana betting on Subzero (an Innocent), and then won by betting on Raiden (annother Innocent).

Split on the other hand has been quiet and nonconfrontational, I think he's a mark.

Thoughts? Comments?

I opposed your plan because I didn't have much money. And I was irritated when you pressed me on the matter in a less than courteous way.

Another comment; You assume too much. What if you're wrong about any of the above? Being a Mark does not preclude the possibility of telling the truth just to mess with your mind if a Mark dies, so you might assume it is a lie. That's classic WIFOM.

Also, and no offense to Choxorn, but what proves Raiden isn't a mark? There are marks on different teams. So, let's recap


1. There's no evidence in the writeup which suggests 1 mark / 1 team.

2. Which means there's nothing clearing Mileena.

3. Raiden is NOT cleared by the writeup in any way.

4. I'm not a Mark (Not that such details matter)

5. Assuming I were a mark, losing a ton of money on a battle doesn't prove it or disprove it either way. Marks can lose money too, you know.

6. A lot of people opposed collaborating with you, Yaropolk.

Now you can pillory me for opposing bad logic, or for opposing a plan I didn't have any spare cash for. Because by the way;

7. I needed all my cash to support Raiden in his fight, and some left over to make a meager bet. Giving you money wouldn't have helped Raiden defeat a Mark.



You're welcome.

[Thermal]

Come on Scorpio, thank heavens you got to be a star for five minutes.

Stupid spell check...

[Yaropolk]

1. There's no evidence in the writeup which suggests 1 mark / 1 team.

If this is not true, then some teams would have an unfair advantage of not having a mark infiltrating their quicktopic. I belive Sprig would not allow this. Additionally Scorpio, a mark, publicly opposed this theory while alive, giving it more credence. Proof? No. Evidence, most certainly.

This is a mafia game, you don't get proof, only clues here and there. If you want conclusive proof, lets collect for investigation tokens!

2. Which means there's nothing clearing Mileena.

It would likewise be an unfair disadvantage to have multiple marks on one team. Again not proof, but in my eyes she is less likely to be a mark than some of the teams that haven't lost a mark.

3. Raiden is NOT cleared by the writeup in any way.

“So which Outworld gods are responsible for this and where does Raiden fit in all this?” The messenger stammered “Apparently Raiden was excluded from the meeting, had a hissy fit and vowed to win the tournament himself” Shao Kahn chuckled at this “And what of the the Outworld gods?” the messenger bowed low “I am afraid, I do not know who is behind this, my lord.” ‘Wrong answer’ thought Shao Kahn as he used his foot to crush the messengers skull flat as a pancake. ‘I will find out!’ vowed Shao Kahn.

4. I'm not a Mark (Not that such details matter)

If that's the case, then your partner Splitpersonality IS a mark.

5. Assuming I were a mark, losing a ton of money on a battle doesn't prove it or disprove it either way. Marks can lose money too, you know.

Yes, but marks would presumably pool their mana to ensure a win when challenged. You could have bet on the non-mark on purpose to confuse us, but I dont think a loss of 200 mana is worth a WIFOM. You could have simply not bet at all to avoid attracting attention to yourself.

6. A lot of people opposed collaborating with you, Yaropolk.

I'll build a throne out of their skulls!

7. I needed all my cash to support Raiden in his fight, and some left over to make a meager bet. Giving you money wouldn't have helped Raiden defeat a Mark.

If true, would constitute further evidence that you're innocent and Split is a mark.

[Splitpersonality]

Wait so the mark set up one of their own to battle in their first choice?

Were they trying to clear one of them in sacrifice for another's life or were they just expecting to win?

Poor move on their part imo...

If that's the case, then your partner Splitpersonality IS a mark.

If true, would constitute further evidence that you're innocent and Split is a mark.

I don't really understand what gives you the right to say such remarks, considering that I am your loyal assassin, I don't think you should be questioning your long-time underlings.

Aside from that, it's obvious that your assumptions are just plain false beacuse I am not a ing mark. End of story.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If this is not true, then some teams would have an unfair advantage of not having a mark infiltrating their quicktopic. I belive Sprig would not allow this. Additionally Scorpio, a mark, publicly opposed this theory while alive, giving it more credence. Proof? No. Evidence, most certainly.

Our team doesn't even have a quicktopic.

According to the setup and rules of this game, everyone, including one's own teammates, is a suspect. This is primarily why I didn't set up a quicktopic for my team. Why would you trust a teammate any more than, say, someone who wasn't on your team? In fact, if the idea is that there's a mark in every team, and you know you're not a mark, wouldn't you trust people on other teams more than your own? There's a 1/3 chance of them being a mark as opposed to a 1/2 chance of your teammate being a mark. Therefore people on other teams would seem to be more likely to be innocent. The evidence you speak of is inconclusive, and can be interpreted to mean anything.

"AHA, he said it so you'd think the opposite if he died", one might conclude. "which has been done by mafia in most games I've been in." Just saying. Either conclusion is equally relevant, which is to say both conclusions are simply guesses.

This is a mafia game, you don't get proof, only clues here and there. If you want conclusive proof, lets collect for investigation tokens!

Perhaps. With one less mark, that has bought us valuable time. I think we can afford your plan now, as well. I would be in this time. But, only if the cost is affordable. I'd also volunteer to be investigated, since you don't trust me for opposing you so far.

It would likewise be an unfair disadvantage to have multiple marks on one team. Again not proof, but in my eyes she is less likely to be a mark than some of the teams that haven't lost a mark.

How is that a disadvantage? If one mark dies on one team, we avoid that team for much of the game. Seems to be a great advantage to the mark, anyway.

Also, if this was done randomly, the odds are very good some teams have multiple marks and some have none. If it was done randomly, the odds are very much against an even distribution. If it was done randomly, of course.

If that's the case, then your partner Splitpersonality IS a mark.

Perhaps.

Yes, but marks would presumably pool their mana to ensure a win when challenged. You could have bet on the non-mark on purpose to confuse us, but I dont think a loss of 200 mana is worth a WIFOM. You could have simply not bet at all to avoid attracting attention to yourself.

Ah, but Splitpersonality sent even more money than I did to help Choxorn win. Although I sent as much as I could afford, and ended up with zero before the battle was done. So yeah... there's something askew. Either I am a Mark and willing to give away all my money to bet on Choxorn winning, which is against your prediction, or Split is a Mark and willing to bet heavily on a non-mark, which is against your prediction, or Choxorn is a Mark, which is against your conclusion, or none of us are a mark, which is against your even-distribution of Marks assumption.

I'm no good to you or the team if I don't examine everything you're saying critically, especially if we are to fork over tons of mana to you, which we couldn't get back. If you want my support you'll have to endure a little bit of examination.

I'll build a throne out of their skulls!

Indeed, with that much mana I'm sure you could win every battle.

If true, would constitute further evidence that you're innocent and Split is a mark.

See above about Split's generosity. He had more mana than I, but still gave as much as he could.

It is ok to assess the odds and try to forge a path forward, but be very cautious to assume that just because the odds suggest, in your opinion, something is true, that it is indeed true. Assume you could also be wrong and don't write off any possibility, is my suggestion.

That said, I appreciate your efforts. It's much better than some who barely post and don't discuss.

[Yaropolk]

I'd love to hear from Choxorn (Raiden) - is it true that both of your teammates sent you mana?

I don't know if I can get everyone on board with this, but I think it would help the town tremendously if both combatants reveal publically who sent them mana right before their fight starts. If they die, we can see who has been helping them.

[Thermal]

Wait so the mark set up one of their own to battle in their first choice?

Were they trying to clear one of them in sacrifice for another's life or were they just expecting to win?

Poor move on their part imo...

I'll say this because it won't damage by team by revealing it. A mark is put into the battle if they don't send there choice in. I forgot too....

[Askthepizzaguy]

There are competing Mark teams, aren't there? According to the host. Or am I misremembering?

[Thermal]

There are competing Mark teams, aren't there? According to the host. Or am I misremembering?

1: Would you like me to answer

2: on a percentage, 0 being not at all and 100 being completely, do you trust me to answer?

[Askthepizzaguy]

1: Would you like me to answer

2: on a percentage, 0 being not at all and 100 being completely, do you trust me to answer?

It is completely possible for a Mark to tell the truth about stuff.

Go ahead.

[Sprig]

GM Comment: As I have said before the exact nature of the marks are to be slowly revealed during the write-ups. What we know from the writeups is that both the outworld gods and earth gods colluded to change the Mortal Kombat rules. With Raiden finding a medallion on scorpion and identifying it as belonging to a earth demon god, you have to ask yourself what are the chances that this demon god controls all the marks.

I wonder if i reveal if the marks were selected at random or not? Since I am enjoying the discussion :D

Kazaar: the odds of 1.2 were for scorpion winning. The payout for Raiden was 1.83 (including original bet.)

[Askthepizzaguy]

GM Commet:

RUN!!!!! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!

[Splitpersonality]

Yaro, though I do disagree with your plan in some ways, mainly that being putting our eggs in one basket, I had another priority this round, getting my team leader through the round.

Yes, I donated 375 of my 400 mana, I planned on betting the rest on him but forgot to bet.

In the future, so long as my teammates are not up to battle, I'd be glad to aid you in finding mark...