Falklands

[Subotan]

a claim that does not come out particularly well from historical scrutiny

wut

[Louis VI the Fat]

wut

Well Britain simply showed up one day and proclaimed the Falklands theirs. That much is true.

Such is imperialism.

In this the Argentinians are right. I still remember dear old Soulforged (hope he is well), our Buenos Aires law student, arguing at great length the legal history of the Falklands. The poor guy was right too.
It's just that more overriding sentiments for me are the sheer passage of time and the nature of colonial landgrabbing, most of which can scarcely be undone anymore. And for most Britons, self-determination.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well Britain simply showed up one day and proclaimed the Falklands theirs. That much is true.

Such is imperialism.

In this the Argentinians are right. I still remember dear old Soulforged (hope he is well), our Buenos Aires law student, arguing at great length the legal history of the Falklands. The poor guy was right too.
It's just that more overriding sentiments for me are the sheer passage of time and the nature of colonial landgrabbing, most of which can scarcely be undone anymore. And for most Britons, self-determination.

Quite so. On the other hand, Argentina could be argued to have asserted it's right in 1982 and to not have been up to the task.

[Centurion1]

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

I sir demand you return your norwegian territory in Antartica.

such a ridiculous statement.

If the Falkies vote in a referendum for independence they are welcome to it. If not tough luck Argies.

Stupid argument anyway as the Brits would militarily kick the Argies into next week. The Brits are at the moment technologically superior and battle hardened from Afghanistan (which matters more you could ever imagine).

By the By i do enjoy the Brits clinging to some of the last vestiges of British Empire. not that i argue im a big fan.

[KukriKhan]

So, I guess we all agree, that the chances of POTUS Obama trying to revive some version of the Monroe Doctrine... are less than nil?

[rory_20_uk]

Every area of land has been claimed and re-claimed over the years. Try to sort out what bits of Europe belong to who, for example. Proximity has no bearing on the matter - especially as it's a few hundred miles off the coast.

Land is invariably taken by force and kept by force. In the old days to prove the point, the persons who were on the land were slaughtered to ensure no resurgence, or at the least "relocated" elsewhere.

[Subotan]

Surely if we wish to return the island to it's original inhabitants, we should kick out the British and establish a Penguin's Republic of the Falklands?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Surely if we wish to return the island to it's original inhabitants, we should kick out the British and establish a Penguin's Republic of the Falklands?

The French are the first humans to settle the Falklands.

Gives it back to the natives, you bastards!


*Nails signs saying 'The Falklands are French' all over France*

[Boohugh]

Sorry I'm late to the thread, been busy passing AIB the last few days :)

Just got a few points to make in no particular order:

1) Argentina has similar military capabilities to the ones it had almost 30 years ago and, if anything, they have actually got worse.

2) The Royal Navy has been training for just this situation for almost 30 years. They are now far better equipped to neutralise any and all threats the Argentians can muster (look up Sea Dart, Seawolf, Goalkeeper and Phalanx if you want to know why). The only area we are worse off now than in 1982 is naval fighter cover since Mr Brown et al decided to retire Sea Harrier and not bother replacing it to save money, however we have 4 brand-spanking new Eurofighters sitting in hardened shelters on the Falklands instead which, conveniently, brings me on to...

3) We are actually prepared to repel an invasion now. There are constantly 1000 or so military personnel ready to defend the islands. The Argentinians either need to come by air, in which case the Eurofighters and Rapier AA defences will rip them to shreds, or they need to come by sea, in which case an SSN or two will decimate their fleet.

Basically, an Argentinian invasion is just a complete non-starter! Now we know there is oil (likely 60 billion barrels or so), there is no chance we'll give it up without a fight and, due to the reasons above, it is a fight we'll win every time, not to mention the Islanders clear preference for British rule.

[Beskar]

What makes it worse for the Argentinians is that they gave 50% of their share of that oil away in protest in 2007... talk about stupid moves to do.

[Centurion1]

wait the british got rid of the sea harrier and decided not to replace it so you have no naval fighters. im sorry thats just stupid then you should just get rid of your carriers.

[Gregoshi]

*Nails signs saying 'The Falklands are French' all over France*

Falk the French!!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Falk the French!!

Pft.

You'll notice the Britons here bite their tongue over my provocations.


That is because they don't have a Navy deserving of that name anymore and will be dependent on Paris' mighty fleet for maintaining their Empire. I will have my fun for my tax money. In fact, it is the best €8500000000000000 I've ever spend. Washington is not going to help them. It didn't last time, nor will it want to upset Latin America this time - what with the Latino vote etc.
Britain will come running to us. So looking forward to their grovelling. From behind my large mahogany desk, I shall threat the Briton with due reservedness and natural aloofness. I'll wear my dark suit I imported from Milan, its tone reflects well in my eyes, gives them a natural authority.

*dreams*

[Gregoshi]

Louis, I think that silence is really just pity. I know. I get that all the time.

[Tellos Athenaios]

So, I guess we all agree, that the chances of POTUS Obama trying to revive some version of the Monroe Doctrine... are less than nil?

Which would be that the USA would do nothing and the UK would be well within its right to slap Argentina should it invade. Monroe doctrine specifically limits its scope to asserting the right of (former) colonial territories to independence and the US' god given right to remove any such independence in whatever America; it does not include the right of former colonies to do a land grab with USA support.

[spmetla]

wait the british got rid of the sea harrier and decided not to replace it so you have no naval fighters. im sorry thats just stupid then you should just get rid of your carriers.

They're just waiting for the F-35 to finally go into production and those will go on the new carriers.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

wait the british got rid of the sea harrier and decided not to replace it so you have no naval fighters. im sorry thats just stupid then you should just get rid of your carriers.

No, Fleet Air Arm got an upgrade:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Force_Harrier

The F2 was ancient anyway, about 3 generations behind the GR9.

[HoreTore]

I sir demand you return your norwegian territory in Antartica.

Do you even know what the Norwegian land in Antarcita consists of?

It's a research facility. Norwegian scientists want to do research on ice and stuff like that, so we've built a few shacks down there for them. Whether the land legally belongs to the Norwegian state or not is so irrelevant it's getting ridiculous.

Anyway..... No matter how you look at it, the Falklanders are immigrants. British nationalists usually tell immigrants to "go back where they came from".... Or is that only the case with brown immigrants?

[Thermal]

What in the hell? Clearly the inhabitants are predominately British and the Crown has held the Islands for most of their inhabited history. What in the world are the Lating American nations talking about?

Are the Argentinians going to start another war? What do you guys think?

I think there being much more discreet this time, I could see a possible war if Argentina are ready to do so. There reasoning is awful though, clearly just want the islands for themselves. I think an attempt at diplomacy could be useful this time instead of just going in all guns blazing.

The only way this will truly be resolved is if England conquers over Argentina, or just gives Argentina the islands, both seem unlikely, lol.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Do you even know what the Norwegian land in Antarcita consists of?

It's a research facility. Norwegian scientists want to do research on ice and stuff like that, so we've built a few shacks down there for them. Whether the land legally belongs to the Norwegian state or not is so irrelevant it's getting ridiculous.

Anyway..... No matter how you look at it, the Falklanders are immigrants. British nationalists usually tell immigrants to "go back where they came from".... Or is that only the case with brown immigrants?

Patriots are not nationalists. In any case, the indiginous population also want the islands to remain British, and hold British citizenship.

[Samurai Waki]

If Argentina decides to start another Falklands war, I think perhaps after the UK gets done spanking the Argentines, the Brits should annex Terra Del Fuego just to piss them off a little more.

[gaelic cowboy]

Just to point out UK will never invade Argentina over the Falklands again mainly cos Brazil the new regional power in South America would not be best pleased that either side started throwing stones at each other.

This type of political posturing is likely to increase now that Britain is seen as fading in a military sense. Argentina is not able to press it further but having a powerful Brazil next door allows them to shout behind them so to speak at the other party.

The UK is likely to find it will have to engage in diplomacy in a very serious manner in this region sooner or later there is a possibility of being pushed aside by Brazil. This outcome is not something I believe Brazil crave's although Argentina would be over the moon it is possible it could happen if the UK ignore the situation.

[HoreTore]

Patriots are not nationalists.

One might think that would be the reason why I said "nationalists" and not "patriots".

In any case, the indiginous population also want the islands to remain British, and hold British citizenship.

Indigenous people...? You mean the animals or what?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Look it up HoreTore, 25% of the population are pre-colonial.

[Subotan]

The only way this will truly be resolved is if England conquers over Argentina, or just gives Argentina the islands, both seem unlikely, lol.

Or if the UK asked the EU for help, and the EU as a whole put sanctions on Argentina until it abandoned it's claim.

[gaelic cowboy]

Or if the UK asked the EU for help, and the EU as a whole put sanctions on Argentina until it abandoned it's claim.

Never happen Spain and Portugal would never allow it they have too many business links with there former colonial possessions to help UK

[Subotan]

That would only be a problem with Spain, and Portugal if Brazil throws a hissy fit. Besides, we would certainly have the support of France, and if we dangled a promise of greater integration, then you could probably get everyone else on board.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Would it be sensible to dangle greater integration with the EU over the Falklands?

[Mikeus Caesar]

Look it up HoreTore, 25% of the population are pre-colonial.

There was no human habitation of the Falklands prior to European settlement. 70% of the native-born population is of British descent. These are the legendary 'kelpers'. The other 30% percent are nearly all recent immigrants from Britain, and then a very small percent of the population is people from other countries.

[Pannonian]

Would it be sensible to dangle greater integration with the EU over the Falklands?

Sure. Britain conquers Argentina and integrates it as part of the UK of Britain, Northern Ireland and Argentina, then they'll become an integrated part of the EU.