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Thread: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

  1. #661
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    an interesting article that takes the tory's to task for not spelling out their vision, and examines why they are afraid to reveal that vision:

    The Conservatives have the vision but not the nerve
    David Cameron's Conservatives have a compelling plan for government, but they are too fearful to spell out what it is

    By Janet Daley
    Published: 9:00PM GMT 27 Mar 2010

    Believe it or not, the Conservatives actually have quite a compelling vision for government, in which spending cuts could be made to play a constructive role, public services would be more responsive to the real needs of the people who use them, and the state would be an enabling force rather than an oppressive one. Honestly. The reason that you are almost entirely unaware of this philosophy is because the party thinks that you will either be frightened by it or that it will be too difficult for you to understand.

    Very occasionally, they allow you a glimpse of an aspect of their programme: Michael Gove's plan for "free schools", or the "co-operative" model in which public agencies would be run by their own staff. But then some television interviewer starts to ask wider questions, or a Labour frontbencher tosses out some predictable, brain-dead jibe, and the shutters come down.

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    The Tory spokesman who had, ever so cautiously, begun to hint at what could be a genuinely progressive new relationship between the state and the people, scurries away into the darkness again, like a small animal terrified of being caught in the open. The result? The Tories look vacuous: like a party with half-hearted convictions, half-baked policies and with no overarching theme to distinguish it in any fundamental way from Labour. And so, ironically, a leadership that is so afraid of damaging questions leaves itself wide open to the most dangerous ones of all: what real difference is there between you and your opponents, and why should anyone be inspired to vote for you?

    You may be asking yourself at this point whether the patronising assumption that you are either too timid or too dumb to grasp the potential of this message is actually justified. Who are the real cowards here? Is the Conservative leadership like some cartoon character who runs away from his own reflection in the mirror because he mistakes it for a bogeyman? Is the story that the Tories could be telling – their "narrative", in fashionable terms – really so terrifying or awesomely incomprehensible? Let's try putting the argument in simple terms and see how many of you run for cover.

    First, governments run things very badly. They presume to know more about delivering services than the expert professionals they employ, they waste money on bureaucratic oversight and they play party-political games with vital areas such as education and health. So by cutting back the power of central government and making the agencies that deliver services accountable to the people who use them rather than to politicians, we would get better, cheaper and more productive results. Everybody still here? Good.

    Second, the more power and authority that the state seizes, the less people feel the need to take responsibility for themselves and for each other. Many of the problems that now corrode the quality of life in Britain – anti-social behaviour, irresponsible parenting and the feckless refusal to accept any idea of civic duty – have their roots in the emergence of government as the only source of moral authority and the only provider of social protection.

    Communities, families and individuals, whose ethical judgments are likely to be more sound and more effective, have been dwarfed by the gargantuan intrusiveness of this expensive, impersonal monster which, as often as not, interferes without understanding and meddles without sensitivity. So by pulling central government's tentacles off the most personal and local areas of people's lives – by giving them the power to run their neighbourhoods, schools, health services and benefits agencies according to their own priorities – we can restore self-determination and pride while improving public services.

    Do you find this concept so difficult to grasp? Does it not, in fact, seem consistent with your own experience of real life? You know that you are likely to get much better and more attentive service from a small local business which is eager to please you as an individual than from a huge corporate outfit which sees you as nothing more than one tiny digit in its annual turnover. When it comes to public services, the independent local outlet could offer a relationship of trust, familiarity and understanding to the consumer, and greater efficiency and productivity to the taxpayer.

    What's not to like? Why is the party so timorous about pitching this solution proudly and robustly? Because it is afraid of Labour (and its media friends) shrieking "postcode lottery", "pushy parents", "middle-class privilege" – of any suggestion that its programme would endanger what Labour calls "fairness". If services become accountable to communities then by definition they may vary, and so the informed, the conscientious, the "privileged" may get a better deal. Only central government, the Left argues, can enforce uniformity and prevent disadvantage.

    This is normally the point in the argument when the Tory spokesman loses his nerve. Unable to assent to anything that would repudiate "fairness", the party retreats on to Labour's ground instead of standing its own. What it could be saying is, "Let's look at how successful Labour's approach has been. Has central government, with all its determination to deliver social equality, actually reduced deprivation and increased opportunity for the poor?" No, it hasn't – and the figures exist to prove it. Inequalities of educational achievement, health outcomes and earnings have not diminished under Labour. So maybe the overweening, overspending, over-intrusive state isn't the answer. Perhaps, contrary to paternalistic, Left-wing myth, it is poorer communities that would benefit most from local self-determination. Perhaps deprivation is as much linked to passivity, defeatism and despair as it is to material poverty, and giving people more responsibility and power over their own lives would enable them to see a future for themselves that was not hopeless.

    But telling this story takes nerve, and unblinking fidelity to core beliefs. That means having the confidence to reject Labour's language and its shibboleths: the word "fairness" must be reclaimed to mean that people who work hard to improve their own lives and those of their families should not be treated as if their efforts were a form of social theft; "equality of opportunity", which means that everyone gets a fair chance, must not be confounded with "equality of outcome", in which everyone gets the same whatever his merits. This is a truly liberating solution to the country's problems that could make Gordon Brown's class war look as reactionary and vindictive as it is. The Tories have a week or so in which to decide whether they are proud of it.

    i would happily support both this and DC's six EU pledges, but as long as they remain so nebulous i lack the trust that he really intends to implement them, this is serious change that needs to be on an election manifesto.

    twelve months down the line when the unions start to object to this plan and cause national strikes, cameron needs to be able to turn around and say i have the backing of the people for this, because otherwise he won't be able to crush union resistance.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-28-2010 at 11:51.
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  2. #662
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    As long as he held big poll leads, he stayed out of trouble - though had Brown been less of a coward, Cameron would have been less than a footnote in 2007. In the face of a substantial crisis, he and his shadow chancellor are being exposed as shallow, devoid of ideas and principles. Brown is probably the most stubborn, vicious, bloody-minded political fighter of his generation, and despite their general loathing of the man, it seems many Brits are beginning to consider that maybe that's the chap to have in charge when the going is so unbearably tough. A working class tough seems preferable in a fight to a fey, air-brushed public schoolboy. .
    Gah, the poll I read is eluding me now, but I do seem to recall Brown being seen as better in a crisis than Cameron about a month ago.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    The 'Special-Relationship' is now over.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8590767.stm

    Apparently, people were misusing the word, trying to suggest both America and Britain were equal and Britain benefited from this said relationship.
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  5. #665
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    a labour dominated committee decided that.

    not that they don't have a point, but i reject the implicit assumption, a-la the IPPR, that it should be replaced with a new euro-relationship.

    we will always have more in common with our anglosphere family.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    lol, the report is based on testimony given by Nick Witney who works for the European Council on Foreign Relations and currently working to set up the European External Action Service aka the European Army:
    http://www.publications.parliament.u...4-i/c11402.htm
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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    That was a great link, thanks.

  8. #668
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    lol, the report is based on testimony given by Nick Witney who works for the European Council on Foreign Relations and currently working to set up the European External Action Service aka the European Army:
    http://www.publications.parliament.u...4-i/c11402.htm
    Oh, what cognitive dissonance. A single expert is heard by the committee about the European aspects of transatlantic relations, and you dismiss the entire report?

    'Smoking bad for you? lol, I know this chain smoker who lived to be 92 !'


    It's a three party committee, it travelled to New York and Washington to hear experts, dozens of British experts were consulted, ranging from economic experts, to UK ambassadors in Washington and the UN, to experts in military and international relations. Based on all of this, the committee tried to establish a picture of the workings and the worth of the special relationship for Britain.


    And no, an absolutely pig-headed refusal to accept that the 'special relationship' (if it exists at all) should not be the sole focus of British foreign policy was not the conclusion of the report.

    The report: http://www.publications.parliament.u...4/11404.htm#a1
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Sir Campbell is always one that knows his stuff. He even predicted the credit crunch.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Oh, what cognitive dissonance. A single expert is heard by the committee about the European aspects of transatlantic relations, and you dismiss the entire report?

    'Smoking bad for you? lol, I know this chain smoker who lived to be 92 !'


    It's a three party committee, it travelled to New York and Washington to hear experts, dozens of British experts were consulted, ranging from economic experts, to UK ambassadors in Washington and the UN, to experts in military and international relations. Based on all of this, the committee tried to establish a picture of the workings and the worth of the special relationship for Britain.


    And no, an absolutely pig-headed refusal to accept that the 'special relationship' (if it exists at all) should not be the sole focus of British foreign policy was not the conclusion of the report.

    The report: http://www.publications.parliament.u...4/11404.htm#a1
    my thoughts on the headlines reported were:
    a labour dominated committee decided that.

    not that they don't have a point, but i reject the implicit assumption, a-la the IPPR, that it should be replaced with a new euro-relationship.

    we will always have more in common with our anglosphere family.
    it is true that america sees us as a tool with which to anglicise the EU, as well as one to add a little spine to the rickety contraption, an objective i reject in its implied outcome; that we become a part of a federal europe.

    it is also true that america is less interested in europe, and thus less interested in its unsinkable aircraft carrier parked just off europe, but that is because europe is becoming a strategic backwater in the 21st century.

    so yes, we should not be slavish to the US, that is agreed, but i also reject the implication that we need to jump into bed with europe just because we've been 'jilted' by the US, because they will remain close in attitude and expectations.

    Here is the reports conclusion:
    We conclude that the UK must continue to position itself closely alongside the US in the future, recognising the many mutual benefits which flow from close co-operation in particular areas. We further conclude that the UK needs to be less deferential and more willing to say no to the US on those issues where the two countries' interests and values diverge.
    no argument there from me.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-28-2010 at 19:57.
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    Member Member Boohugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Just a heads-up in case anyone is interested, Channel 4 are showing a debate between the Chancellor and his 2 shadow opponents tonight at 8pm. Not sure how interesting it'll be but may be worth a watch.

  12. #672

    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    You can also watch the debate online at http://www.channel4.com/microsites/A...lors/live.html, which also features a very handy tool to keep track of all the tweets about it.

    As for me, I shall watch it online whilst writing an essay, should be be fun
    Last edited by shlin28; 03-29-2010 at 20:03.


  13. #673
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    It probably seems to many overseas members that we have strayed from the topic of the thread, but as Louis' posts touched on, the United Kingdom is still riven by class.
    And a fascinating debate it has been!

    A few pages back I expressed dissapointment at the lack of British slang in this thread. Louis, not really up to speed with slang, threw in 'class', as if he somehow expected that the mere mentioning of the subject was bound to stir passion and give us overseas readers a taste of British peculiarities.

    Endlessly fascinating, the extent to which class is still present in British thought. All the more so for me, since as ya'll know, Texas itself does not have any class at all.
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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Texas doesn't have a class because it knows that it is above everyone else regardless.

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    A hung Parliament is going to happen, it is just who is going to be the biggest party, I still feel that is going to be Labour. A Lab/Lib coalition will hopefully tackle the voting system, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I believe we should make voting compulsery but have a 'none of the above' box. With the system we have it will cause the parties to broaden their appeal to everyone, not just the large chunk of middle class voters who do actually use their right to vote - those the option to vote for no one will be there, when in the polling booth, many people will actually vote for a party and it will mean everyone getting represented in parliament - which can only be a good thing.
    ah well, courage of your convictions and all that, so here is my prediction for what it is worth.

    i believe the cons will continue to do very poorly in the polls, i.e. they lose under the current electoral boundaries, and i think this is electoral pressure to force the cons to show what substance they have got.

    i believe they cons will continue to keep their powder dry even tho they know the electorate despise the tactic, because they are more afraid of labour stealing their clothes.

    in the end, the conservatives will let free with the 'substance' of their ideas and the electorate won't be impressed, but it will be enough for a conservative victory, but not a landslide.

    if i'm wrong feel free to call me on it, but it is my gut feeling, and i'm not even going to vote conservative unless i like the substance to their proposals, if they're going to run scared of being branded the nasty party then they don't have the balls to make the changes i want made, and they won't deserve my vote anyway.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 03-29-2010 at 23:19.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Camerons Big Society:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8596256.stm
    David Cameron promises to create 'neighbourhood army'
    David Cameron
    David Cameron says he wants every adult to join a community group

    David Cameron has said that a Conservative government would train a 5,000-strong "neighbourhood army" to set up community groups.

    The Tory leader said in a speech this offered a "positive alternative to Labour's big government" approach.

    "Our aim is for every adult citizen to be an active member of an active neighbourhood group," he said.

    Meanwhile, Labour is promising communities more powers to take over the running of local services.

    The parties are attempting to take control of the "localist" agenda ahead of the general election, which is likely to be held on 6 May.

    'Galvanising'

    The Conservatives are promising to fund the training of 5,000 full-time, professional community organisers "over the course of the next Parliament".

    They say this is based on a movement in the United States which has "trained generations of community organisers, including President Obama".


    The era of top-down government is over
    Tessa Jowell, Labour

    In a speech in central London, Mr Cameron said: "I don't think the state should be funding directly the community organisations, but the state can fund the training, can do some of the galvanising."

    Repeating his description of Britain as a "broken society", he said: "We are determined to create a bigger society, to give people more control over their lives. We believe we need to get Britain running."

    Mr Cameron also announced plans to create a "Big Society Bank", funded from unclaimed bank assets, which will "provide hundreds of millions of pounds of new finance for neighbourhood groups, charities, social enterprises and other non-governmental bodies".

    The party says it will transform the civil service into a "civic service", by "making regular community service a key element in civil servant staff appraisals".

    Mr Cameron said: "In Labour's world, for every problem there's a government solution, for every issue an initiative.

    "This is not what Beveridge dreamed of when he created the welfare state."

    'Important step'

    He added: "We want every adult to be a member of an active neighbourhood group.

    "I know some people argue that there isn't the appetite for this sort of widespread community participation. I don't agree."

    The BBC's Home Affairs Editor Mark Easton said the grass-roots initiative was ambitious and there was a danger it would be easier to put forward in opposition than implement in government.

    For Labour, Cabinet Office Minister Tessa Jowell said a pilot scheme would look at giving parents a greater role in deciding how Sure Start children's centres are run.


    The 'Big Society' is just patronising nonsense
    Julia Goldsworthy, Lib Dem communities spokeswoman

    There would also be a "movement to allowing staff in the NHS who want to run their own services to keep their existing pension".

    Ms Jowell said: "The era of top-down government is over. Often, the best people to decide how local services should work are the local people using and running those services.

    "These measures are an important step in achieving a big increase in the number of 'mutual' services that will give real power over the services that matter most."

    The Liberal Democrats said the Conservative proposals were a "gimmick" and they were "out of touch" with existing examples of community activism.

    "The 'Big Society' is just patronising nonsense, particularly for the thousands of dedicated people who are working to make their communities better every day," said the party's communities spokeswoman Julia Goldsworthy.

    "David Cameron will say anything to get a headline. The Liberal Democrats will give people real power over things that matter like their local police and health services."
    i like it.

    Cameron’s proposal is that government should become an enabler rather than a provider: that it encourage, facilitate, train and help to finance local activism and organisation to counter social problems and run services. He is certainly right to say that, in the long-run this is the best way to get the deficit down because it is less wasteful and inefficient than central government-run provision.
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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    Camerons Big Society:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8596256.stm

    i like it.

    Cameron’s proposal is that government should become an enabler rather than a provider: that it encourage, facilitate, train and help to finance local activism and organisation to counter social problems and run services. He is certainly right to say that, in the long-run this is the best way to get the deficit down because it is less wasteful and inefficient than central government-run provision.
    Is that not Blairism????????
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    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    Is that not Blairism????????
    It does smack rather strikingly of Blair's "third way"...

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    perhaps in its appearance, but it won't have to be forced through the teeth of a labour party still clinging to stupid ideas about class-war, the disadvantaged, and how the two should be forced to meet by policies that try to force equality of outcome.

    we could genuinely end up with a government that does less, (a good thing), and empowers people to make up that deficit themselves (also a good thing).
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    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    perhaps in its appearance, but it won't have to be forced through the teeth of a labour party still clinging to stupid ideas about class-war, the disadvantaged, and how the two should be forced to meet by policies that try to force equality of outcome.

    we could genuinely end up with a government that does less, (a good thing), and empowers people to make up that deficit themselves (also a good thing).
    Why not?...if there was any evidence to trust Cameron to deliver anything. Either way, this is still a vague concept.

    And I'm not saying that "big governement" or Brown is the answer here either...

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Why not?...if there was any evidence to trust Cameron to deliver anything. Either way, this is still a vague concept.
    true enough, and i am a sceptic of the cameroon brand of cuddley conservatism, but every challenger starts in this position.
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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    THE FIGHTBACK BEGINS

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...brown-hard-man
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    In an audacious new election strategy, Labour is set to embrace Gordon Brown's reputation for anger and physical aggression, presenting the prime minister as a hard man, unafraid of confrontation, who is willing to take on David Cameron in "a bare-knuckle fistfight for the future of Britain", the Guardian has learned.Following months of allegations about Brown's explosive outbursts and bullying, Downing Street will seize the initiative this week with a national billboard campaign portraying him as "a sort of Dirty Harry figure", in the words of a senior aide. One poster shows a glowering Brown alongside the caption "Step outside, posh boy," while another asks "Do you want some of this?"
    Brown aides had worried that his reputation for volatility might torpedo Labour's hopes of re-election, but recent internal polls suggest that, on the contrary, stories of Brown's testosterone-fuelled eruptions have been almost entirely responsible for a recent recovery in the party's popularity. As a result, the aide said, Labour was "going all in", staking the election on the hope that voters will be drawn to an alpha-male personality who "is prepared to pummel, punch or even headbutt the British economy into a new era of jobs and prosperity".
    Strategists are even understood to be considering engineering a high-profile incident of violence on the campaign trail, and are in urgent consultations on the matter with John Prescott, whose public image improved in 2001 after he punched an egg-throwing protester.
    Possible confrontations under discussion include pushing Andrew Marr out of the way while passing him on a staircase, or thumping the back of Jeremy Paxman's chair so hard that he flinches in shock.
    One tactic being discussed involves provoking a physical confrontation at one of the three ground-breaking TV debates between the candidates. In this scenario, Brown, instead of responding to a point made by Cameron, would walk over from his microphone with an exaggerated silent display of self-control, bring his face to within an inch of the Tory leader's, and in a subdued voice, ask "what did you just say?", before delivering a single well-aimed blow to his opponent's face, followed by a headlock if required.
    The bloodied and bruised Cameron could then be whisked to a nearby hospital, where a previously briefed team of doctors and nurses would demonstrate the efficiency and compassion of the NHS under a Labour government.
    Saatchi & Saatchi, the agency behind the poster campaign, are also considering reworked posters from classic movies, casting Brown as The Gordfather, the Terminator, and "Mr Brown" from Reservoir Dogs, or perhaps linking him to Omar Little, the merciless killer in the TV series The Wire, in order to burnish the prime minister's "gangsta" credentials. Another set of designs appropriates the current Conservative anti-Brown poster campaign, employing adapted slogans such as: "I took billions from pensions. Wanna make something of it?"
    The Brown team has been buoyed by focus group results suggesting that an outbreak of physical fighting during the campaign, preferably involving bloodshed and broken limbs, could re-engage an electorate increasingly apathetic about politics. They also hope they can exploit the so-called "Putin effect", and are said to be exploring opportunities for Brown to be photographed killing a wild animal, though advisers have recommended that weather, and other considerations, mean Brown should not remove his shirt.
    Labour further hopes to "harness the power of internet folksourcing", the aide explained, encouraging supporters to design their own posters, which could then be showcased online. The "design your own poster" initiative has caught the imagination of Downing Street strategists, the aide said, because it is cheap, fosters engagement among voters and, above all, nothing could possibly go wrong with it.
    For their part, Conservative strategists are said to be troubled by internal research suggesting that several members of the shadow cabinet – including Cameron and George Osborne – would in fact not "come here and say that" if challenged by Brown, instead turning pale and running away, or arranging for an older brother to wait outside the Houses of Parliament to attack him when he is least expecting it.

    A physical confrontation with Cameron later in April could be a real vote winner
    Last edited by Subotan; 04-01-2010 at 00:23.

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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    So the Gruniad has decided to play up the fact that it's a national joke, yes?
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    lol, funny article, i like it. :D
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    apparently it is all crystal clear on Cameron's platform for election resides:

    Election 2010: Eureka! At last, I can see what David Cameron is on about
    We demand vision from our leaders - and the Tories' plan for society is truly radical, says Benedict Brogan

    Published: 8:18PM BST 31 Mar 2010

    It happened to Alan Turing, as he lay on his back in Grantchester Meadows, wondering how to crack the German Enigma codes. Newton was lounging in a Lincolnshire orchard. Archimedes was in his bath, but was so excited that he jumped out and ran naked through the streets of Syracuse. The weather persuaded me to opt for a taxi after my own Eureka moment yesterday, but otherwise my delight was of the same magnitude – for I now understand what David Cameron is on about.

    It is often the case that something that should be apparent isn't, because you can't see what's in front of your nose. With a crossword or a puzzle – or one of those annoying pixellated images you have to look at sideways and with a squint to make out the laughing dog – there is usually a moment when all is revealed and the answer becomes plain. For some, this happens quickly. Others take a while, so that those who have cracked it already burst with frustration: "But can't you see? Just look! Surely it's obvious!"

    This is the difficulty that has faced the Conservatives for some time now. Mr Cameron has a plan for revolutionising the relationship between the individual and the state. It is ambitious. It is detailed. It is in many ways a gamble, because its success is by no means assured. It demands some quite profound changes in the way we have got used to behaving. It will require different thinking on our part. Once exposed to the toxic daily demands of government, it may prove to be wildly over-optimistic. No matter: he has told us what he wants to do in quite exhaustive detail.

    What he had not managed, until yesterday morning in a community centre in south London, was to make us see the big picture. Imagine his frustration: despite all those press releases and launches and announcements and Green and White Papers, people on all sides were asking him: "But what would the Tories do, exactly?", accusing him of lacking a single compelling vision. And he has had to reply – ever so politely – "But can't you see?", before going back to the office to shout in frustration at Oliver Letwin.

    Mr Letwin, you see, is one of the brains behind what was presented to us yesterday as "The Big Society". A succession of shadow cabinet ministers gathered together to present, like the pieces of a jigsaw, the overall image of a Conservative plan to free us from the suffocating embrace of big government. The Tory policy chief has been banging on about this for two years at least, with little thanks. Gordon Brown, however, can spot the danger, and did his best to scupper the Tories' launch by giving a speech on immigration, an issue he had been silent on until political necessity intervened. His economic boom was built in part on an unlimited torrent of foreign migrants; now that it has turned to bust, he has roused himself to address the terrible consequences, but too late.

    Mr Brown's purpose yesterday was twofold: to deprive Mr Cameron of useful headlines, and to invite the Tories to step over another of his dividing lines, when he will then thwack them with accusations of extremism. Set against this depressingly brutal approach to politics, the Big Society event was remarkable for its American-inspired optimism. Sensitive, perhaps, to the charge that their plain speaking on austerity and their talk of a "broken society" is a difficult message to sell on the doorstep, Mr Cameron and his colleagues had their smiley faces on.

    "I am unashamedly optimistic and unapologetically ambitious," he told us, with a flash of the "let sunshine win the day" vision that was darkened by the economic crisis. He is optimistic about what the nation's human capital can do to restore health to a society that has lost its way; ambitious for what a Tory government can do to make it come about.

    So what does he intend? The Big Society project must first be set alongside the supply-side reforms the Tories intend for the public services. If mobilising society's "little platoons" is the aim, then Michael Gove's scheme to encourage parents, volunteer groups and businesses to set up new schools is a crucial component, as is the innovative pledge to allow communities to take over and run local assets such as recreation centres or even shops.

    For those looking to reduce the welfare bill, the plan to offer cash bounties to companies that find jobs for people on the dole is radical, as is the scheme for a voluntary form of national service for 16-year-olds. Philip Hammond, George Osborne's deputy, gave a lucid presentation on how reforming society is a vital part of returning us to fiscal stability: reduce the demand for welfare and you reduce – permanently – the deficit. Savings channelled back into projects that reduce dependency and increase freedom from the state in turn generate more savings. A virtuous circle is created.

    Giving people both the tools and the powers they need to become active in their communities without waiting for the state to take the lead will be legislated for in the first term. A Freedom of Data Act will give us the right to access the information held by Government. Things like crime maps and public-sector job vacancies will not just be published online – alongside details of every item of public spending above £25,000 – but made available for re-use by others. Grant Shapps gave a useful analogy: when Apple introduced the iPhone, it had no idea that opening its system up to anyone who wanted to develop an application would result in a tool that allowed the public to take a snap of a pothole and report it straight to the council. A Tory government will set a similar framework of openness, then let us get on with it.

    Then there is the Big Society package itself, which includes the creation of a "Big Society Bank", using unclaimed deposits to channel private money into grassroots projects; the training of 5,000 community organisers, who will fan out across the country to encourage local involvement; requiring civil servants to take on community service; and a Big Society Day to mark the resulting achievements.

    You can find material here to criticise. Hearing Conservatives spouting the jargon of granularity, holistic multi-agency silos and burning platforms will set teeth on edge, though we might see it as a useful ruse: to win over that state-dependent volunteer sector, you must first speak its language. Then there is the American-ness of the thing: the idea of neighbourhoods is a transatlantic import, as is the faith in our ability to conjure up an army of community organisers like the young Barack Obama, embraced a bit too implausibly yesterday by Mr Cameron. Nor is it clear whether the necessary army of volunteers will materialise, given that no incentive is on offer beyond the warm glow of moral satisfaction.

    So Mr Cameron is certainly right in one regard: his agenda is exceedingly ambitious. We have lost faith in politics, yet here is a politician who has faith in our ability as individuals to wrestle responsibility for society away from the state. We demand vision from our would-be leaders, and here is one who offers a big one, of a society rebuilt from the ground up. Gordon Brown can certainly spot this threat to his top-down ways. David Cameron knows what he doesn't – that at some point, you have to say to the people: "Over to you."
    Last edited by Furunculus; 04-01-2010 at 08:18.
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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i like it.

    Cameron’s proposal is that government should become an enabler rather than a provider: that it encourage, facilitate, train and help to finance local activism and organisation to counter social problems and run services. He is certainly right to say that, in the long-run this is the best way to get the deficit down because it is less wasteful and inefficient than central government-run provision.
    I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, the society he hopes to accept this responsibility is hopelessly broken after the imposition of Thatcher's selfish individualism, magnified by the Blair/Brown years of rampant excess based on wanton government spending. There are precious few who would take on the necessary leadership - and those who would, will do so out of a political agenda rather than a community one. I suggest that Mr Cameron's party would not be very happy with the politics of the people who are energised enough to counter social problems and run services. (Frankly, New Labour has done its best to stamp them out as well - we are not talking about the Women's Institute's Militant Wing (Sink Estates) here, which is what David fondly imagines).
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 04-01-2010 at 08:21. Reason: Better sense
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    interesting toy for the brits to play with:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...tion-2010.html
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    interesting toy for the brits to play with:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...tion-2010.html
    "Your best match is with the Liberal Democrats. "

    Green 2nd, Conservatives 3rd, Labour 4th.
    Last edited by Beskar; 04-01-2010 at 12:02.
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    i was 77% UKIP, and 66% Con
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, the society he hopes to accept this responsibility is hopelessly broken after the imposition of Thatcher's selfish individualism, magnified by the Blair/Brown years of rampant excess based on wanton government spending. There are precious few who would take on the necessary leadership - and those who would, will do so out of a political agenda rather than a community one. I suggest that Mr Cameron's party would not be very happy with the politics of the people who are energised enough to counter social problems and run services. (Frankly, New Labour has done its best to stamp them out as well - we are not talking about the Women's Institute's Militant Wing (Sink Estates) here, which is what David fondly imagines).
    You're not coming around to the "oik" are you?
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United Kingdom Elections 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i was 77% UKIP, and 66% Con
    Apparently I scored high with UKIP too, even though I disagree with their core principles in many places. I don't want a Parliament for England, I think it should be Regional. While I could agree on a referrendum on Europe, it wouldn't be because we should leave Europe.
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