Proposition 8 declared unconstitutional

[Beskar]

Who is kicking in who's door, don't have to make a point out of marriage, leave that to the people who value these traditions.

Not really, since there are many establishments which don't stop gay marriage. This isn't about forcing a church who doesn't allow gay marriage, to do gay marriages, this is about allowing a church who believes in gay marriage to do gay marriages.

As I said, remove the legal status of marriages and the 'government social enginneering' and just allow the churches to decide for themselves. Seperate that State from those Churches.

[rory_20_uk]

Seperate that State from those Churches.

Oh, the irony...

[Beskar]

Oh, the irony...

I thought some people might like that.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I was going to make a reply, but TCV beat me to it, saying it better then I could anyway.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I find the current fashion for "accepting" homosexuality somewhat amusing, it's been 40 odd years now and the wheels are starting to come off the movement a bit. Mainstream Christianity has shown it isn't willing to budge beyond a certain point (In America Anglicanism isn't mainstream, it splits between right and left) and increasingly there is an awareness that homosexual relationships simply do not obey the same rules as heterosexual ones.

In view of that, I expect the movement for homosexual "marriage" to stall in ten years, and it will never be accepted by the majority of religious people now opposed to it.

Crucially, being in a homosexual relationship is something you do, not something you are, like "being" Black is. On the other hand, "being" homosexual as a nature is something you are.

Dean Jeffrey Johns has written a book on how homosexual and heterosexual relationships are often not of the same value, and how he feels they should be. He is somewhat of a lone voice at the moment though.

[PanzerJaeger]

I find the current fashion for "accepting" homosexuality somewhat amusing, it's been 40 odd years now and the wheels are starting to come off the movement a bit. Mainstream Christianity has shown it isn't willing to budge beyond a certain point (In America Anglicanism isn't mainstream, it splits between right and left) and increasingly there is an awareness that homosexual relationships simply do not obey the same rules as heterosexual ones.

In view of that, I expect the movement for homosexual "marriage" to stall in ten years, and it will never be accepted by the majority of religious people now opposed to it.

Interesting. I percieve things completely differently. Acceptance of homosexuality and homosexual marriage seems to be ascendent while religious influence - not just pertaining to this issue but all aspects of life - is declining rapidly.

Just out of curiousity, can you explain the differences you described between the rules in hetero and homo relationships?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Interesting. I percieve things completely differently. Acceptance of homosexuality and homosexual marriage seems to be ascendent while religious influence - not just pertaining to this issue but all aspects of life - is declining rapidly.

Just out of curiousity, can you explain the differences you described between the rules in hetero and homo relationships?

Britian has had a severely depressed religious conciousness since WWII, but the current 20-somethings are much more likely to be Christian, devout, confident, and Evangelical. This is not so much a question of American importation or indiginous evangelism and the young themselves rejecting the current secular moral-relativistic view in increasing numbers.

The homosexual "rights" movement is based on the claim that there is no substantive difference between different sexual relationships, and it has flourished under a cultural-relativistic outlook promoted by university-educated teachers (who are often also very left wing). Society itself is not at all convinced and recent research has started to suggest that a male/male relationship in particular is different to a male/female one. There was a recent study in Australia that showed the most sucessful "Gay" relationshps were "open", that is to say sexually unfaithful in the traditional sense.

Personally, I don't find this at all surprising. I suspect that the monogomy in heterosexual relationships is driven by the female impulse to conserve resources more than the male desire to raise only his own offspring.

The point is, though, marriage was an institution created for a man and a woman and their subsequent children. It has nothing to do with your sexuality, just how you manage your sexual arrangements.