Roman: Brutii

[Sir Toma of Spain]

here here

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I concur.

Bashing a relative "noob," even when they're incorrect, does not encourage broader discussion.

"Post count," of itself, proves only that you have time to write e-mail.

Info on "taking over" foreign temples was new to me, and an interesting concept.

[pezhetairoi]

Nobody ought to noob-bash. Alright, a little sarcasm perhaps is warranted, but openly attacking him is just unethical. Even bribing is more honourable.

[Mahrabals apprentice]

We were all noobs once, some of us still are

[Franconicus]

The difference in our knowledge is small, our ignorance is even

[pezhetairoi]

yah, we're all human... we all make mistakes from time to time. Like that time I violated my cardinal rule and sent my generals careening into the armoured hoplite line...

[bubbanator]

Noob-bashing is FUN! Yay! err....I mean...It's a terrible thing to do...

Sorry, I just had to say that...

On to the subject. I am just wrapping up a great campaign with the Brutii. At the begining, I stole someones idea to have 'expiditionary armies' to go save the Selucids. I sent a half stack over to Sidon, which was controled by the Egyptians. I took the city and built up my armies. I had to keep my economy going at home so I took Sparta, Athens, Corinth, and Larissa. I focused on economy at first, then troop upgrades. Over in Sidon, I built up 2 large armies and proceded to lay waste to the egyptian empire. I gave all of the land except for modern-day egypt to the Selucids. Memphis, Thebes, and Alexandria, I gave to the Numidians.

O, I forgot to mention that I had taken Carthage and Thapsus and allied with the Numidians and Selucids. The Numidians had expanded and once I gave them egypt, they had all of North Africa except for Carthage and Thapsus (my cities).

Things were going well until the Selucids and the Numidians decided to backstab me on the same turn. I defended Carthage from the Numidians and then destroyed their other army that was coming. Then i just forgot about them.

The Selucid Empire, on the other hand, was like my baby. A baby that needed to be punished. I built up an army and took Antioch. I also built up an all cavalry army and went out on seek-and-destroy. This was my favorite part of the campaign. I had my best general and his son together figting with a mix of equites and merc cavalry. I went out and defeated no less that 7 full stack armies and countless others against half stacks. Cavalry, eles, charriots, phalanxes...they were all slaughtered. My general eventualy had 10 stars and was a 'cavalry commander of genius.' I had only heard of this trait before, never had I even gotten a 'skilled cavalry commander' trait before. I couldn't believe it. Anyways, once the remaining armies had went to hide in their cities, I went on an assasination spree. I built 8 assasians and went and started killing family members left and right. All but 2 of my assasians were killed but those 2 became 9 point 'eye' thingy...

Any family member i saw traveling that my assasians couldn't take out (faction leader and heir) I just went and killed with my cav army. Evidently, I didn't kill every family member because they were still alive but something more important had come up.

The Marius Event. I had never before seen this happen in my game before. I knew full well about it but I always beat the game too fast. I really wanted to start the civil wars. However, I only had like 15 provinces so I didn't have much popular support. I had built up huge, super-armies of upgraded Early and regular Legionary Cohorts and my Princepes (sp) that were left over. I also had some onagers. I set up my armies around all of the starting cities of all of the Roman factions as well as all of Sicily. (I had already taken Syracuse at the begining of the game)

I got my 10 eye point thingy super assasian over to Rome and tried to assasinate some of the family members. My assasian kept missing his targets. Over and over. I tried him on the Scipii faction heir and he killed him fine. I tried again on the Senate faction leader. He had a five percent chance. He died trying and I was outlawed. YES!!! Time to kill everyone

That same turn, I sprung my trap, I beseiged 5 cities in one turn. I waited to build some seige towers even though I had my onagers (I don't trust them against stone walls). The next turn, I captured all of the cities. That one turn took me an hour and a half...

Because I had taken Carthage and Thapsus early, the Scipii had decided to land in Greece and take several settlements there. I built up and took some of those out. Over in France, I had taken the last of the Julii cities. I eventualy got the Scipii down to one city. That was a great battle...

Anyways, Thrace had taken over the rest of Greece in the power vacum that I had made when I didn't take Greece. I attacked them and took most of their settlements. I also went into Turkey to take Pergarium and the two cities to the south.

That is where I am at right now. 44 settlements and counting. It has been a very staisfying campaign.


A few notes:

The upgraded generals bodygaurds that you get after the Marius Reforms beat the pants off of the regular ones. I find myself using them a whole lot more now.

a Pantheon to Mars combined with a foundry makes for some troops that are so good, it's almost unfair. I mean, from Rome I am pumping out First Legionary Cohorts with 4 xp, and +2 to armor and weapons. Now I can just steamroll over the Britons who killed the stupid Gauls.

I intended for this to be a short post but o well...

[pezhetairoi]

I can't empathise with anything but the Roman civil war part, because NO campaign I've ever played has ever given me the marian reforms until AFTER all the other romans are under oath of fealty to me...

But yeah, springing traps is fun! I like your style :-) A fellow blitzkrieger after my own hungry heart.

But well, I don't use assassins. I prefer to use diplomats and a lot of money on them. They're so much more useful on MY side of the battleline. All cav armies are fun to create! You can completely paralyse one enemy faction and fix his armies in place with one fast ranging cav army that splits and combines to menace different cities. Of course, keeping settlements besieged is an extremely valuable thing since it means any units he loses, he can't rebuild. Never mind if he sallies out to break your siege, just resume the siege again--he will never build be able to build anything. Seriously.

^_^

As to noob-bashing, well...'nuff said. :)

[bubbanator]

Yes, the campaign I just finished has been a first in many aspects. I had never built assasians ever before, I had never seen the Marius reforms before, and I had never used an all cavalry army before.

My cavalry army eventualy got a unit of merc elephants. That was helpful. I just went and destroyed every city that still had a wooden wall.

And about the bribery, I rarely bribe anyone, but the other Romans, well, I would rather have them fight for me than for me to have to kill them all. I actualy didn't have enough troops to strike the Julii lands because they had so many armies right at the top of Italy. I had just left one full stack to ward off any Julii incursions. I was trying to get a ceasefire so that I could finish my operations in the southern half without interuption. I sent a diplomat to Arretium and they refused my ceasefire but I did notice that I could bribe the city and the 3/4 stack army inside it for only 70,000. Not exactly pocket change but it was quite a deal. After I had the city, army pushed north and finished off the Julii.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Yeah, I just entered war with all the Roman factions (as Brutii). I'm also at war with Thrace. An other scary thought...

[Garvanko]

Its a bit worrying when all they do is sit there on Sicily or Italy and spend 50 years building five or six full stacks just because the AI can't figure out how to expand. This is the legacy of v1.3.

Nevertheless, my current Brutii campaign is going swimmingly; the temple bonuses from Mars and Juno is particular making sure I have both excellent managers at Croton, Thessalonica (vital) and Larissa, and strong armies at Tarentum and Thermon. Temples of Mercury at Apollonia, Sparta and Athens are also doing wonders for my economy. Have expanded into Greece, taken most of Macedonia and I am now considering moving on into barbarian territory - a first for me with Brutii as usually I prefer to go for the richer rewards in Persia, Egypt and Carthaginian Africa. This new approach however, is in response to the growing threat of Gaul and Germania (a beneficiary of the new patch, perhaps?) - whom the Julii seem incapable of dealing with - both of whom are expanding rapidly in the north.

Thessalonica (always a sicknote) has my best troops - including Triarii - so it should prove an excellent staging ground for my assault on northern Europe and the balkans.

Its 240BC, and Croton is ten years away from an Imperial Palace, and the Marian Reforms. Yay.

[rotorgun]

Any ideas for fighting the Brittanic hordes?

In my current Brutii campaign I followed the usual strategy of attacking Greece first, followed by the Macedonians. Than I expanded to the north and east, embroiling my armies in a biiter contest against Thrace and Dacia. Other than taking Sardis, and Rhodes, a result of my war with Greece, I've pretty much left the rest of Anatolia alone for now. It is currently controlled by Pontus. I will use these cities to springboard my invasion of the Pontic provinces later when I see that they are thoroughly engaged with Epypt.

To put some cap on the Scipii, I follwed up on a request by the Senate to help them early on by blockading Syracuse by actally taking control of the city, giving me a base in which to strike them when civil war breaks out. In a similar effort to block Julii expansion. I decided to to head northwest into Gallic lands and take some of the regions that would normally fall to them by default. This has worked well, limiting the Julii to only seven total provinces.Spain is a protectorate of theirs, but that is about to change with the adept use of diplomacy in the future. This leads me to my contact with the British.

While busy fighting in the balkans, it seems that Brittania proceeded to conquer almost all of Western Europe. Attempting to move into what I thought was a rebel province in Gual, I discovered it was actually British. Their army attacked before I could withdraw and the war was on. In this case their armies seem to have enourmous experience ratings, as do their Generals. They also have good armor and weapons upgrades. I guess this was a by-product of their defeating the Germans and developing the right buildings.

My armies don't have anywhere near the level of experience or armor. The only way I can beat a large British force is to have at least two armies involved, which means giving control of one of them to the computer. I realized only too late that I did not build any temples of Mars. I opted for temples of Mercury instead as it really boosts the economy.

Any suggestions for dealing with these Britons? Does the AI always have more units than twenty allowed in an army? I always seem to be coming up against these huge AI armies.

Rotorgun

[Garvanko]

Hmmm.. no temple of Mars? Not even one? Not good, especially with Brutii. But... salvageable.

I suggest you destroy a couple of mercury temples in middle level towns near the front and build new mars ones. You may have the numbers, but you need experience, and you need it quickly. It should take six turns to get to level three temple of Mars, during which time you might decide to play defensive against the Brits. Keep big stacks together in case they they attack, so you are not outnumbered, and push more troops up to the front, preferebly first through your new Mars enhanced cities, where you should retrain them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

From there you should be able to launch a stiffer reposte to British delusions of grandeur.

[Garvanko]

Germania offered me a gift!!!!

I'd just ended our alliance by siding with the Brits. Two turns later, Germania offered me 154 denarii and the 'reassurance that our friendship would endure despite the end of our alliance' or something along those lines..

Never seen the AI do that before. Hell, never been offered a gift before, measly though this one was.

Naturally, in my excitment, I accepted.

This brutii campaign rocks!

[rotorgun]

Hmmm.. no temple of Mars? Not even one? Not good, especially with Brutii. But... salvageable.

I suggest you destroy a couple of mercury temples in middle level towns near the front and build new mars ones. You may have the numbers, but you need experience, and you need it quickly. It should take six turns to get to level three temple of Mars, during which time you might decide to play defensive against the Brits. Keep big stacks together in case they they attack, so you are not outnumbered, and push more troops up to the front, preferebly first through your new Mars enhanced cities, where you should retrain them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

From there you should be able to launch a stiffer reposte to British delusions of grandeur.

Thanks to Garvanko!

I have taken your advice and am now on the defensive in the northwest against them. It is getting tough as I feel the need to expand in Anatolia for about seven more provinces. I currently own 31. Civil war with the other Roman factions looms on the horizon, as my popularity with the people has gone sky high. I've been ecouraged to march on Rome at least a half dozen times already, but I have to conclude this war with the British without leaving them strong once the Civil war commences. The Senate has assigned me to take Samarobriva, which is cholked full of British suoerior units. I have my assasins working overtime killing off family members and destroying enemy buildings. It must be hurting them as they have started a counter assasin campaign.

All that aside, do you offer any good tactical advice for fighting Brittanic armies? They come at one fast in extended line that at times it seems the traditional Roman three line approach gives up too much of the flank. How do you approach this?

Appreciative,

Rotorgun

[Garvanko]

All that aside, do you offer any good tactical advice for fighting Brittanic armies? They come at one fast in extended line that at times it seems the traditional Roman three line approach gives up too much of the flank. How do you approach this?

Don't use a traditional three line apporach. Match them up in a line with your infantry (guard mode), with archer auxilia supporting from behind on skirmish. Then target their chariots with your Roman and Missile cavalry and skirmishers. AI chariots tend to charge alot, so keep them occupied while your Cohorts deal with their swordsmen and warbands.

It would however be best to attack them in their settlements where there is less space for their chariots, rather than in the field.

Im fast coming up to a confrontation with the Brits in my Brutii campaign so hopefully we'll be toasting victory together in Londinium soon!

[rotorgun]

Don't use a traditional three line apporach. Match them up in a line with your infantry (guard mode), with archer auxilia supporting from behind on skirmish. Then target their chariots with your Roman and Missile cavalry and skirmishers. AI chariots tend to charge alot, so keep them occupied while your Cohorts deal with their swordsmen and warbands.

It would however be best to attack them in their settlements where there is less space for their chariots, rather than in the field.

Im fast coming up to a confrontation with the Brits in my Brutii campaign so hopefully we'll be toasting victory together in Londinium soon!

Thanks again Garvanko,

I will take your advice, and even practice such tactics on the Custom Battle Mode before taking it to them. This will be after I properly train my cohorts and archers upon the completion of my awesome temple of Mars.I think you may be right about besieging them in their settlements. I guess I preferr to draw them out into the field and weaken them in open battle. The survivors will retreat to the village where I can deal with them easier. (At least that's the plan)

Anyway, thanks again for such good advive.

rotorgun

"It is well that War is so terrible...else we should grow to fond of it."- Robert E. Lee

[Garvanko]

Soften them up before you enter the settlement with your archers - auxilia are excellent marksmen. Then drive in with your cohorts and cavalry.

I agree it is tempting to deal with them on the field, but believe me, a bit of practice with Seige tactics, and you'll soon be good at both! If they don't have spears or strong infantry, then shock them with Cav once you break down the gate, then bring in the infantry.

[rotorgun]

Soften them up before you enter the settlement with your archers - auxilia are excellent marksmen. Then drive in with your cohorts and cavalry.

I agree it is tempting to deal with them on the field, but believe me, a bit of practice with Seige tactics, and you'll soon be good at both! If they don't have spears or strong infantry, then shock them with Cav once you break down the gate, then bring in the infantry.

As we say in the army,
Hoooah!

Good luck to you as well in your campaign,

rotorgun

"...the general must niether be so undecided that he entirely distrusts himself, nor so obstinate as not to think that anyone can have a better idea...for such a man...is bound to make many mistakes" - Onasander

[Alexanderofmacedon]

I was in the middle of a Brutii campiagn in which I was about to rule the world. Then BI came and I quit it, and now am playing as different BI factions!

[rotorgun]

Germania offered me a gift!!!!

I'd just ended our alliance by siding with the Brits. Two turns later, Germania offered me 154 denarii and the 'reassurance that our friendship would endure despite the end of our alliance' or something along those lines..

Never seen the AI do that before. Hell, never been offered a gift before, measly though this one was.

Naturally, in my excitment, I accepted.

This brutii campaign rocks!

After looking this post over again for a second time, I realized that it is not such a strange occurence. This also happened to me once before during my first Julii campaign. Essentially, Britannia must be as big a threat to Germania as are the Romans. After all, aside from the Gauls, the British are the most likley competition for all that trade to be had along the Atlantic and Baltic coasts. The Germans are probably anxious to preserve a peace. You could probably exploit this situation to gain more consessions from them. I would be prepared for a change of positions, however, as soon as Germania rebuilds its strength. They certainly stabbed me in the back as soon as I started to expand across the channel.

Your right Garvanko, the Brutii are a hoot to play!

Rotorgun

[GreatEmperor]

You guys always say a civil war looms on the horizon, but I've found another way to complete the campaign. Take 49 or more provinces (not one of any other Roman Factions but you can close them in if you want by taking cities around theirs) and then lay siege to Rome. In my case the Julii helped destroying Rome as they attacked me with 2 cavalry units when I was laying siege. I played very offensive that battle and before the Senate reinforcements arrived, I killed the 2 Julii units. That's how I got Rome. If you want to take Rome the same way as I did, make sure there's a small Julii or Scipii stack near, they will attack you and if you're quick you can get Rome without much casualties and without much of a fight.

[rotorgun]

You guys always say a civil war looms on the horizon, but I've found another way to complete the campaign. Take 49 or more provinces (not one of any other Roman Factions but you can close them in if you want by taking cities around theirs) and then lay siege to Rome.

Well said GE. It is a good idea to follow such a strategy if the Roman Senate doesn't ask you to kill off your faction leader, or declare war on you as you become more of a threat. That's what happened in my Jullii campaign, and when I refused to order his death, the Senate declared war. Sometimes I also get impatient by taking on so many other factions to avoid the civil war. If I see that my chances to win the war are good "Alea ecta est!" (Ceaser), the die is cast. What steps do you take to prevent the other Roman factions from initiating a war with you?

Rotorgun

[GreatEmperor]

Well if I got lots of money, I give gifts to them, but if I haven't got much money I try to complete many Senate missions as in my game they always give me missions like: block the port of Scallabis. They are easy to complete and because my playing style is very offensive (I'm at war with almost everyone on my border), I don't get war with allies or neutral factions I don't want war with.

It might be a bit confusing but that's because my English isn't very good.

[Garvanko]

I never give the AI gifts. Whats the point? Will it ever reciprocate? How many gifts have you ever received from it?

I just let it expand as and where it sees fit, and Im seeing the benefits in what should be an terrific endgame in my Brutii campaign. Basically, Im wiping the floor with the Germans having decided to expand northwards. The Ponts control the east, the Egyptians and Numidians control the desert, while Spain and Britainnia are strong in the west. Im worried about Pontus though.. their massive expansion westwards through Russia may prove a critical phase in the game - Ive been fortifying my structures in preparation for what looks like inevitable confrontation.

Germania is down to 3 provinces, so I might start thinking about a ceasefire. Best to keep Britannia at armslength for now (although I am allied with them), especially if, as is increasingly likely, the Civil war erupts, and my attention is diverted to italy, where about 15 full stack Senate, Scipii and Julii armies lie in wait.

[GreatEmperor]

I never give the AI gifts. Whats the point? Will it ever reciprocate? How many gifts have you ever received from it?

The point in giving gifts to the Senate is that they think you're a good friend and so you can postpone the Civil War to any time you like.

[Garvanko]

Im actually having enough trouble trying to start the civil war, let alone end it. Ive assassinated countless Scipii captains and family members, Ive refused senate missions, I've expanded rapidly and now hold 28 provinces (hopefully 30 will trigger the war), and Ive built up about five full stacks on the Italian peninsula and placed them on Scipii territory - a transgression of course. Ive also cancelled trade rights with the Julii, just to hold down their own belated expansion into Europe.

Both my senate and mob approval are level pegging at the moment at +7, so its a case of tipping the balance in favour of the mob in th enext few turns.

Its a race between my Brutii and Pontus to see who can get to 50 first. Now that's a first!

Its 185 BC.

[bubbanator]

If you are trying to start the civil war, have armies outside all of the major cities in Italy, then when you are ready, have assasians try to take out the Senate faction leader or heir. Once your assasian is killed in the attempt, the civil war will start and your armies will take all of Italy (hopefully)

[GreatEmperor]

Well, if you expand rapidly the citizens will love you and you'll get a message that they want you instead of the senate. At that point just attack another Roman Faction you like and the Civil War will begin.

And Bubbanator: I don't know if I'm the only one but when I try to take out the Senate Faction Leader or Heir or General they may fail but they never get killed in action. It's very strange but I may Assassins seem indestructible. They only die if they grow old.

[Kralizec]

Better is to get a diplomat to cancel your alliance with one of the Roman factions, wich will start the war too. The reason why this is better is that if you attack an ally you'll have a harder time getting alliances in the future.