Your thoughts on BI

[Ludens]

O.K., ket's fight. I will bribe away your army like anything.
Jokes aside. What is it good for? How do I get it?

Europa Barbarorum was founded before the release of R:TW when a group of TW fans was dissappointed with the depection of the so-called barbarians. The purpose of EB was to provide more detailed historical information for CA so that the game would have improved historical accuracy. However, CA did not use the information gathered by EB and continued with their own design. And EB decided to make their own version of R:TW.

The EB-mod is still work-in-progress. In fact it probably won't be released this year. If you want to have a look at their work, click the links in this thread: All the previews in one thread!

Alternatively, view this thread for a summary of all information that has been released, in or out of previews: The Lost Art of Keeping A Secret - REDUX

Both threads are the work of non-EB members, so they are not always up to date.

[caesar44]

I don't want to take the risk of wasting my money to buy another buggy game that's as historically inaccurate as the former. I play RTW (first the pirated, then the legal version) because I want the history and historical gameplay more than anything else. If it's buggy I can live with it, as long as it's not a bug affecting historical reality (i.e. load-save bugs, I can live with).

Agreed (except the bugs thing...)

[The Hun]

Europa Barbarorum was founded before the release of R:TW when a group of TW fans was dissappointed with the depection of the so-called barbarians. The purpose of EB was to provide more detailed historical information for CA so that the game would have improved historical accuracy. However, CA rejected the information and went on with their own design. And EB decided to make their own version of R:TW.

The EB-mod is still work-in-progress. In fact it probably won't be released this year. If you want to have a look at their work, click the links in this thread: All the previews in one thread!

Alternatively, view this thread for a summary of all information that has been released, in or out of previews: The Lost Art of Keeping A Secret - REDUX

Both threads are the work of non-EB members, so they are not always up to date.

I agree that EB units look nice but how long to wait for a Mod? People will lose interest in RTW when CA brings out a new TW title so EB will die unless they release soon.

[player1]

The biggest disaster would be to have at released after, or shortly before BI is out, but only RTW compatible.

[Captain Fishpants]

Europa Barbarorum was founded before the release of R:TW when a group of TW fans was dissappointed with the depection of the so-called barbarians. The purpose of EB was to provide more detailed historical information for CA so that the game would have improved historical accuracy. However, CA rejected the information and went on with their own design. And EB decided to make their own version of R:TW.

Erm, what?

I don't know where this particular story came from but - as someone who has been around for the duration - I don't remember anything being 'rejected' from anyone. I checked with a couple of other people and they didn't know anything about this material either.

[Colovion]

No one officially offered the information in a package to the CA offices - but simply having it posted here and having the game not include any of the material is rejection enough. Not direct rejection - true. IIRC the massive thread was stickied here in the Colloseum for months.

[Captain Fishpants]

No one officially offered the information in a package to the CA offices - but simply having it posted here and having the game not include any of the material is rejection enough. Not direct rejection - true. IIRC the massive thread was stickied here in the Colloseum for months.

You said it yourself: "No one officially offered the information in a package to the CA offices..." There was no rejection of anything.

If you personally feel rejected I'm sorry you feel that way.

However, IP issues could well have made any usage of material unfeasible in practice.

[King of Atlantis]

[QUOTE=Captain Fishpants]
If you personally feel rejected I'm sorry you feel that way.
[QUOTE]

Not really rejected just said. Us history nuts would have loved to see the barbarians more realistic.

I hope im not sounding to negative, i still loved the game.

[pezhetairoi]

Of course, and it's a measure of how much we love your game that we want to make it even better than it already is. Well, EB's not for the mainstream... there're those of us who'll wait.

Franc, bribing not allowed! The same rules apply as your All-Britannia Cup! ^_^

[swirly_the_toilet_fish]

The game was fantastic and its a testament to the progress CA has made in their TW series. It is just as simple as history buffs really cannot be pleased with games based in historical periods. There will always be room for improvement in our eyes. So, of course, unless we all pool our resources, create a company of our own, and create a game to our exact specifications, someone will be unhappy. Even then, someone will be unhappy.

[Franconicus]

Of course, and it's a measure of how much we love your game that we want to make it even better than it already is. Well, EB's not for the mainstream... there're those of us who'll wait.

Franc, bribing not allowed! The same rules apply as your All-Britannia Cup! ^_^

Alright! You choose the weapons!

[pezhetairoi]

Ha! I'll take 20 Scythian Noble Archers and you can have 20 Militia Hoplites! ^_^

[Franconicus]

Hm, shouldn't we use the same weapons? If not, I'll take the new Frank army

[Ludens]

I don't know where this particular story came from but - as someone who has been around for the duration - I don't remember anything being 'rejected' from anyone. I checked with a couple of other people and they didn't know anything about this material either.

Colovion explained it already: it was quite a big thing on the Org, yet CA never acknowledged it. But since there was no actual rejection, the term is indeed somewhat misleading. Sorry for that.

I agree that EB units look nice but how long to wait for a Mod? People will lose interest in RTW when CA brings out a new TW title so EB will die unless they release soon.

Well, given that people are still working on mods for M:TW, and CA in the past took its time for releasing new titles, I think there is still hope .

[Orda Khan]

Good grief! Let us not forget that NO mod would exist had CA not created the game in the first place. I find the constant digs at CA to be very, very tedious. I would even add that a modder has the endless time to create and improve upon that which he has created, whereas CA have schedules. Tell you what, let's all wait for two years for the next installment of TW shall we? The more I read these negative posts the less I think we actually deserve. Why, if MTW was so tremendous and RTW so awfully bad do we find MTW MP lobby so empty and RTW full? Why not save the thoughts on BI until we actually know how good it is and if any bugs are fixed? If the bugs are still there or have multiplied, then simply do not buy another TW game. At present, any thoughts are pure speculation ( as are thoughts on unfinished Mods ) When BI arrives, I for one sure hope it delivers, if for no other reason than to end all this negative, boring BS

........Orda

[King of Atlantis]

no one seemed to be complaining here. Someone asked for the history/purpose of EB and they got it.

[sunsmountain]

Piracy was an issue 10 years ago as much as it is now, but still games are on average more buggier today then in those times.

1. I agree, but technology has become more complex. I dont know how far Rome's AI and bugs can be fixed, given the current amounts of time.

2. What i would love to see is some insight into the difficulty of creating a good AI. I've searched the internet and can find some pathfinding problems which are interesting - like is A* always the best algorithm? Sure it's fast, but.. - yet if only CA could post some complex stuff here, perhaps that would create understanding with even the most embittered STW/MTW fans.

3. Or perhaps its the guided and scripted process of creatively creating a game they have to go through, that takes up a lot of time. (Meetings, presentations? i'm trying to understand).

4. Perhaps the AI was left 'as is' so it wouldnt be too challenging for younger players.

Which of these 4 would have contributed the most to the AI being what it is?

I know some within CA are sorry because they gave it their best within the time they got, they also posted as much in the past... but how will Rome Total War - Barbaric Invasion be any different from Rome, besides content?

[clovenhoof]

My RL resource-managment/strategy/rts game (growing and running my small business) has kept me away from games for quite awhile; I haven't even bought RTW. But being a history fanatic, and the begining to mid dark ages being my absolute favorite historical era, I will definitely buy BI and immediately begin devouring the experience. Bugs or not. The chance to play ascending (rather than declining) Saxons will be worth the price alone.

[Lysander]

Hi, based on the demo this is what I think of Barbarian Invasion so far:

(1) The Paladin Bodyguards have a problem where half of their body is falling off, allowing you to see through their torso into the other side.

See here: https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...nvasion3dt.jpg

(2) The cheek guards of the Plumbatarii are put too close to their faces (or something) making it invisible (except for the edges) on one side. Also check out the Scholae Palatinae, they look normal from far away but when you zoom in you can see their heads are twisted and their noses are really long (I mean, when their heads turn only the top part goes, the chin stays).

Look at the Scholae Palatinae:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1308/invasion23aq.jpg
(I think the problem is the chin is welded to the body so it does not turn)

(3) Almost all the barbarian models have really thick necks and deformed heads (check out the bodyguard of the British general). As in history, only the Roman troops look anatomically correct above the shoulders (except (2) above). Also, the colors are real bright on the Franks.

(4) The Huns are special. They look like a mixed bag of cartoon villains: some have large chins, others have twisty mustaches or odd goatees. This ensures they all look very fearsome.

(5) Torches, cool idea but the animation needs a little work.

(6) Voices, it is disappointing that there are no new sounds here. When you click a unit either it makes no noise at all or it says “yes." Only a few tell you their names, but they are just copied from the original game. Maybe they fix this in the real game.

I think BI needs more work and polish.

[player1]

And I thought that games are supposed to be about gameplay and not looks...

[Colovion]

And I thought that games are supposed to be about gameplay and not looks...

ditto

plus, I'm sure it's easier to patch up a couple skins rather than rework an entire battle engine or enemy AI

[Jochi Khan]

Most seem to be forgetting that it is what it is.....a game.

Jochi

[sunsmountain]

Both battles played, Very Hard, Heroic Victories.

The battle with Arthur was actually a bit challenging, because of the terrain and the AI tendency to suicide the German general (of course), causing a loss.

1. I just noticed, after playing a little STW & MTW for old times sake, that battle pace is actually Very Very Fast. So fast that it prevents:
- Me enjoying the graphics. Whatever i see is over within seconds. The camera i have to choose to enjoy (a few clicks scroll 'down') doesnt give a good overview of the battle, which you need every second because its so fast.
- AI making better decisions, which are of course scripted in demo's so i cant comment on them. Despite scripting you still see AI infantry trying to charge your cavalry, and other target choices which expose archers, etc. even on Very Hard.
- Melee fights. Horses move so fast they can rout opponent as quickly as you can click on them, its unbelievable. This is unbalancing... It takes away the strategy & enters the split second tactical decisions type of game... faster even you have to use pause to give multiple necessary orders at the same time.
- Rome:TW being a strategy game on the battlefield. It doesnt even matter that much what fights what (unit stat wise), its all about morale.

Now i enjoy both, and feel MTW and STW are too slow, plus you dont have a run button. I also dont feel that the battlefield is too small, thats just appearance.

2. Campaign pace is notably slower than MTW or STW, because of all the options/traits/ancillaries. I dont think most people like this aspect, imo.

Rome:TW is not that bugged... its just all the different possible styles of play.. tough job. But playing Rome feels more and more like playing Halo. Damn, never thought i'd say it (DX8.1 versus DX9, yet Rome can be graphics cards intensive like Halo, contrary to what i thought).

[Scorpion]

As I said... Nothing would stop me.

Don´t tell me you´d actually stoop so low as to cheat with iddqd?

[Scorpion]

Most seem to be forgetting that it is what it is.....a game.

Jochi

....and? That means we shouldn´t desire better playability or more fun from out of it, or what?

It just so happens that challenge and believability are what make this -GAME- -FUN-.

As in many other cases, I simply cannot understand this answer.
"It´s a game, so we should just be happy with it as it is".

Pardon me if I misunderstood, but it´s just that I see this answer all the time whenever people start talking about realism and challenge and how it would make things more fun.

[Ricochet]

Europa Barbarorum was founded before the release of R:TW when a group of TW fans was dissappointed with the depection of the so-called barbarians. The purpose of EB was to provide more detailed historical information for CA so that the game would have improved historical accuracy. However, CA did not use the information gathered by EB and continued with their own design. And EB decided to make their own version of R:TW.

The EB-mod is still work-in-progress. In fact it probably won't be released this year. If you want to have a look at their work, click the links in this thread: All the previews in one thread!

Alternatively, view this thread for a summary of all information that has been released, in or out of previews: The Lost Art of Keeping A Secret - REDUX

Both threads are the work of non-EB members, so they are not always up to date.

Well now it's out and while it's seems to have some decent new features, I'm hearing the same complaints about AI, and pathfinding... so I will wait... there are many decent looking games planned to be released late 06... TW is still in it's own category, but for how long?

Does anyone know exactly how much as actually been addressed from the the mulitplayer's petition?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38505 It would be nice if someone could do a run down on this or direct me to where it may be... sorry I don't come that often to keep up.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The add on really breathes life into the game and i am really enjoying it with the west empire campaigns being one of the hardest i have ever played. Top stuff indeed and alot of the new units are not that bad either. The berber skins apart from the bright bluey/green are really good work.

[Garvanko]

The sea turned black in my Sassanid campaign.. This happened to anyone else?