Win Conditions

[Mouzafphaerre]

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[konny]

In addition: I have also learned that in the M2TW engine the RTW phalanx formation is still implemented. I think CA does not delete any older functions from their engine in general, even when these are no longer used.

[MiniMe]

I think CA does not delete any older functions from their engine in general, even when these are no longer used.

Did anybody mentioned that Papacy is RTW Senate and Venice, Green Bankers and Mafiozo are the Three Roman Factions
CA indeed thinks their customers are idiots

[NEver]

Ok here's 260BC take two with hayasdan. I'm doing alot better :D



I've noticed three things.

1)Qarthardatism are doing nothing, nothing at all. For now atleast, they just seem to be shuttling troops back and forth for no purpose after taking kirta and another eleuthori settlement in deep africa.

2)Getai took their first target this time around and have been pretty active ever since, The getai stack should be increased so this ALWAYS happens, when human is not getai of course.

3)Epeiros are moving north after building up three full stacks for 6 years. Its not too bad but it'd be better to have them more active south and in Magna Graeca. Maybe a paper scissors rock system is required where Epeiros hates macedon but likes KH, macedon likes epeiros but hates KH and the KH hates epeiros but likes macedon. That should keep the pelleponese interesting for a while at least. As for magna graeca well they need means to build a fleet, and perhaps a prefers naval invasions.

I also think that when human is not playing rome that the stacks in segesta bononova and patavium should be shrunk a little. Maybe this way rome won't see them as a threat and move into rhegion instead, or in the least take them quickly so they can move on and do something significant. There must be someway to get them to attack rhegion and become active in sicily. Same goes for karthadatism. Prefers naval for both mayhaps? (I don't really know how much of an impact that feature has)

Everyone else seems to be doing very well. Wouldn't hurt making parthia more agressive to the south though. I really like the conflict between yellow and silver. It's given me a few advantages. Macedon also seems to be reinforcing the north after taking athenae and the emerging threat of the getae which I like.

[konny]

1)Qarthardatism are doing nothing, nothing at all. For now atleast, they just seem to be shuttling troops back and forth for no purpose after taking kirta and another eleuthori settlement in deep africa.

It's hard to get Carthage acitve in either Spain or Sicily. It is more likely that they will start the conquest of Spain some 50 years after game starts than doing anything in Sicily. But in any case they prefer to conquer Africa at first.

I have it in my Roman campaign too: the conquest of Sicily was very easy. I had then conquered Arse (Saguntum) and established an allied kingdom there to cause the next war when Carthago starts moving in Spain. But so far nothing has happened. They have one full stack standing outside Karthagena, sent a diplomat who threatened me with war if I don't pay him 140 mne (no, not 140,000), and I said to him, 'if you like come out and play'. But no, they are not moving in Europe, but have conquered all of Northern Africa save for Tingis.

Let's consider it that the Anti-Barcids are leading the state. I think I will ship over to Africa, take the towns on the coast and make them Numdians. When they don't know how to behave as Karthagians, may be they are doing better as Numdians?

2)Getai took their first target this time around and have been pretty active ever since, The getai stack should be increased so this ALWAYS happens, when human is not getai of course.

Yes, that would be an idea. On the other hand, the current settings add an element of random to the game.

3)Epeiros are moving north after building up three full stacks for 6 years. Its not too bad but it'd be better to have them more active south and in Magna Graeca.

Epeiros is often very active at the start, attacking the Maks like crazy, but becomes very static afterwards. I could not figure out what causes these. May be it is some kind of hardcoded behavior that should prevent the AI from blitzing the map?

As for magna graeca well they need means to build a fleet, and perhaps a prefers naval invasions.

That's often not necessary because the stupid AI Rome loves to lose Taras by rebellion - and it always rebells to the Epeirote.

I also think that when human is not playing rome that the stacks in segesta bononova and patavium should be shrunk a little. Maybe this way rome won't see them as a threat and move into rhegion instead, or in the least take them quickly so they can move on and do something significant.

That was my idea too. I think the extremly strong stacks in these three towns do the AI no good in finding targets. At least they do not have the desired effect of keeping Rome away from the North.

Making them weaker might it also make more likely that the Aedui take one or the other of them: I had this in my current campaign, when the governer of Patavium died and the stack moved out it was defeated by an Aedui army from Mediolanum and they took Patavium. That would have blocked an AI Rome more from the Alps than all rebell stacks on the map. (of course, it didn't stop)

[-sKy-]

Year: 235 / Difficulty: VH/M / Faction: Rome

First Pic from the World:


And here of Greece and Minor Asia:



Very strange game with the new Victory Conditions (i love them!).
The big Ptoly Army in Syria won, but had heavy losses. They tried to capture Antiocheia, but were beaten, then Sidon revolted, the Seleukids took it, and then they made peace.
Up to 265 the Seleukids killed Pontus, same year Makedonia, Epiros and Greece made Peace and an Alliance (strange ^^)

The Epirotes went northwards into the Balkan, the Makedonians into Thrace.
Greece did nothing.

I in the meanwhile captures Sizily, Carthago did nothing.
250 Baktria invaded the Seleuks, who where conquering Minor Asia, but the Baktrians where beaten, but in Minor Asia most of the Towns revolted.
After Baktria was beaten, the Hayasdan, the Ptolies AND the Makedonians started attacking, and then the Parthians started invading.
Now Front seems stabilized in the East, the Parthians and the Seleucids are fighting around the same 3 cities every turn with no winner, and the Seleuks have built a defense line around Babylon.
Ptolies, Hayasdan, Makedonia are an Alliance.

Rome (me) is at war with Carthage, i have beaten the Lusotann, and i am now capturing the revolted Parts of Epirote homelands.

Swebozs, the Gauls and Casse aren´t doing much, same so Getai.

[konny]

Interesseting campaign! What exe are you playing?

[-sKy-]

standard RTW.exe

[LotW89]

so if i make a descr_win_conditions.txt file where the factions have the homelands inside the file they will try to take them first:
1. won't i lose the game if they get the homelands, because it is in the descr_win_conditions.txt?
2. and it will deactivate the original EB win conditions?
3. will they conquer anything else than their homelands?
4. if yes, will they focus on the homelands first?

[konny]

so if i make a descr_win_conditions.txt file where the factions have the homelands inside the file they will try to take them first:
1. won't i lose the game if they get the homelands, because it is in the descr_win_conditions.txt?

Correct. Once the VC are meat the game is over (giving you the chance of playing on of course). You should therefore include more towns than just the homelands.

2. and it will deactivate the original EB win conditions?

The EB VCs are stored in the script and won't be affected. Nevertheless they can be achieved as well.

3. will they conquer anything else than their homelands?

Yes, certainly.

4. if yes, will they focus on the homelands first?

Depends very much on the faction. I usually have the Sweboz expanding very fine through their homelands, instead of rushing East for instance. The same is for the Arverni and Aedui who concentrate on Gaul instead of going for Germania or Hispania. Armenia and Baktria are not so focused on the steppe when directed by VCs. The others are either sitting on their homelands right from the start, while the Romans constantly refuse the VC file.

[PershsNhpios]

I have read the first post of course, and some others to convince my interest more.

I congratulate the author for his persistence and experimentation.

I run EB with BI.exe, what I want to know I will detail;

you seem to have discovered a mod that needs no development - am I right in believing that - with instruction, a player can give preliminary directives to each faction in the game - and then play the campaign at his leisure?

Or is this not so flexible?

How successful are you so far?

When you detail the objective settlements, do you simply give goals, or routes?
Routes would be an option anyway, but I mean that if you wished the Sweboz to conquer Rome regardless of tactic - would you simply have to add, "Roma", as a target?

I like this very much, and I don't really mod EB greatly.

I like the idea of deleting map.rwm, telling my factions where their hearts are, and starting a new campaign to see who wins and who will interrupt my own ambitions.
A player can even set the entire world eventually against him, without having it ridiculously so on Very Hard difficulty!

[konny]

you seem to have discovered a mod that needs no development - am I right in believing that - with instruction, a player can give preliminary directives to each faction in the game - and then play the campaign at his leisure?

Or is this not so flexible?

The victory conditions seem to work in two directions:

1. Given two valid targets, one being a VC the other not, the AI tends to attack the VC town first. Example would be the Romans, who tend to go for Segesta or Bononia first without VCs, but usually attack Taras first when that is assigned a VC-town.

The problem is of course, that there is no way to make the AI regard a town as a valid target. For example, both Karthago and Rome usually aviod Rhegion, Messana and Syracusae, even when these are assigned as victory conditions.

Another example would be Baktria. Baktria's targets are all recent Seleucide lands and none of the Saka. Nevertheless she starts allied with AS but as war with Saka. The result is a Baktria expanding North and leave the South alone. But that is only until AS and Baktria become hostile. In this case Baktria seems to pay much lesser attentions to the steppe - often losing much ground there - but pushes very hard into Seleucia.

So, when you give the Sweboz Roma as a target you won't see them packing and trecking South in turn#1, but given the situation at one point in the game that they might either attack Roma or another town they will most likely go for Roma first. You might make a path of VCs towns between their starting position and Roma, and provided all these towns are regarded as valid targets and at none they will definitly fail to take it, you'll have them standing at the gates of Rome one day.

2. The AI seems to pay much more attention to defend VC towns than attacking non-VC towns. That's the reason behind Makdonia surviving in most of the games since using this file: Pella is a victory condition for them, any towns on the Balkans are not. So they usually do not waste their armies on Serdike while Pella is under attack from KH and Epeiros but keep larger forces in reserve.

That makes the AI a bit more defenisve, up to the extreme in my first tests when AS had been asigned all starting towns as VCs with the result that she did not field any armies but used everything as garrison. That works a bit regulative in the way that the closer an AI faction will come to achiving it's VCs the more passive it will become.

How successful are you so far?

Testing it is a bit problematic because you have to run tests really long to see any effects of changes - the opening moves of the AI are always more or less the same. I will try to give Rome VCs North of the Alps to create a path into Spain and Greece. Giving targets that require to cross a watershed seems not to work to well. Karthago and Epeiros are another problem; all other factions seem to do pretty well what I want them to do in most of the games

[PershsNhpios]

This is good, so all I simply have to do is study the settlements of EB, draw a perimeter with my finger, and give all the cities within as objectives.
As long as the AI starts on the border of one of these towns, they will do what I ask.

Thank you for a detailed response.

Does this mean you have found a way to create proper naval assaults?
A way to bring the Casse over onto the continent?

Let's say I give the Iberians the objective of taking all of Iberia, and once they've done this, make Ippone a target, will they set sail?

[konny]

This is good, so all I simply have to do is study the settlements of EB, draw a perimeter with my finger, and give all the cities within as objectives.
As long as the AI starts on the border of one of these towns, they will do what I ask.

From my experiments with the Romans and Taras, I would say it is a 80% chance that the AI will do what you want; provided they are not a war with someone else that draws its full attention. There is always a matter of random. For example, I had observed that brigands seem to be able to lure AI armies in different directions to that the AI seems to have targeted originally.

Does this mean you have found a way to create proper naval assaults?
A way to bring the Casse over onto the continent?

No, not at all. Naval operations are a serious problem, save for the random raids with the BI.exe. That allready starts with having ships. So simple but true: the AI seems not to build ships for specific purpose, for example an invasion or fighting pirates, but by random. The next problem seems to be coordination between army and navy. On the one turn the ships are on the coast but the army is far away; on the next turn the ships have set sails before the army arrives. The result are always full stacks standing along the coats staring across the water (very often with Epeiros, Karthago and Makedonia in Mytilene).

[PershsNhpios]

Ok Konny, I am very pleased with what you've given me, and convinced that I should try this.

If it doesn't require too much effort that is called for elsewhere, and if I can, could you instruct me on how to apply this to my game?
Is there a map or list of settlements somewhere I can choose from?

Thank you very much.

[konny]

I had used the recruitement viewer to find the names of the provinces (not the settlements' names even though these are displayed on the overiew screen ingame!) and checked spelling - what is not always correct in case of the viewer - with the file descr_strat.txt (it's in the main subfolder of the map folder). For the correct syntax you should download my version some posts above.

Note, it is not savegame compatible.

[PershsNhpios]

Righto, thanks Konny.

I have overwritten with the given files in both EB/Imperial_Campaign and EB/Barbarian_Invasion.

I hope that is all.

Now I shall start a campaign probably as the Lusotanann.
If all goes well, I should be conquered!

One last question,
seeing as I have not given my own custom objectives, I want to know the details of yours.
Do all factions have new objectives?
Realistic objectives?

I noticed the Sauromatae do very well in the campaigns shown.

[PershsNhpios]

Noticing differences already.

I am playing as the Sweboz, M/M.

By the Autumn of 272, Rome had Taras, Lusotanann had Sucum-Murgi, Aedui had Avaricum, Epeiros had Dalminion, Getai had Sarmiszgethusa.

Very aggressive. Most of these factions besieged a second town by autumn 271.

[konny]

Righto, thanks Konny.

I have overwritten with the given files in both EB/Imperial_Campaign and EB/Barbarian_Invasion.

I hope that is all.

When everything has worked correct you should see a list of the settlements to conquer on faction overview screen.

One last question,
seeing as I have not given my own custom objectives, I want to know the details of yours.
Do all factions have new objectives?
Realistic objectives?

Yes, I consider them to be realistic with the limitation that I did not asign VCs where I don't want the AI to expand to. Some factions, like the Nomads have "wildcard" VCs. That is conquering a number of any settlements instead of expanding in a specific direction. The Romans are ordered East, but that is something that I am going to change after my own Roman campaign is completed.

[Seyduna]

Hi, konny. I overwrote the files in barbarian_invasion and imperial_campaign folder; started a new campaign, however I cannot see the list of provinces on faction overview screen. Does the list supposed to be under 'Domination' title?

Edit: Nevermind. I started another campaign with Casse and got the list on faction overview screen. Then I started Saka campaign and could not see the list.

[konny]

Edit: Nevermind. I started another campaign with Casse and got the list on faction overview screen. Then I started Saka campaign and could not see the list.

That's correct. Saka has wildcrad VCs without named settlements.

[Dumbass]

Where can I get the latest version of the victory conditions mod?

[||Lz3||]

is there an update? is it worth it?

and as said before what's the newest code to use?

[konny]

You can use the last one of the files in this thread. It can be used with any built of EB. I haven't tested the result with EB 1.1, but the results with EB 1.0 were very good.

[Dumbass]

The file is missing though. The link is dead.

[Dumbass]

Could someone re-upload the file? Or just copy and paste the data from the file into their post?

[konny]

Here is the new download link:

http://www.2shared.com/file/3396274/...onditions.html


And the code, just in case it disappears again:

romans_julii
hold_regions Mesopotamia Babylonia Syria Syria_Koile Lydia Margiana Aria Kypros Phoinike Ioudaia Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Thebais Triakontaschoinos Oasis_Megale Libye Marmarike Kyrenaia Augila Kilikia Pamphylia Karia Rhodos Lesbos Mysia Galatia Bithynia Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Illyria_Hellenike Epeiros Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike Krete


romans_brutii
hold_regions Baktria Sogdiane Dayuan Margiana Aria Paropamisadai Gandhara Sattagydia Sind Dahyu_Haomavarga Arachosia Astauene Parthyaia Drangiane Gabiene Karmania Gedrosia


romans_scipii
hold_regions Hayasdan Adiabene Aghvan Kartli Egrisi Pontos_Paralios Paphlagonia Galatia Kappadokia_Pontika Kappadokia Kilikia Pokr_Hayk Sophene Media Elymais Persis Adurbadegan Hyrkania Charax_Spasinou Babylonia Mesopotamia Assyrie Syria Phrygia


macedon
hold_regions Makedonia Thessalia Euboia Peloponnesos Lesbos Illyria_Hellenike Epeiros Attike Lakonike Krete Rhodos Chersonesos_Thraikia Kappadokia_Pontika Kappadokia Galatia Bithynia Mysia Lydia Karia Pamphylia Phrygia Kypros Kilikia Syria Assyrie Babylonia Mesopotamia Phoinike Syria_Koile Ioudaia Delta_Neilou


egypt
hold_regions Atiqa Zeugitana Byzacena Syrthim Mashiliem Turdulia Turdetania Carpetania Bastetania Edetania Lusitania Celtiberia Lacetania Cantabria Asturia Galaecia Greseoallra Liguria Aemilia Venetia Etruria Umbria Latium2 Apulia Campania Kalabria Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Baleares Sardin Korsim         


seleucid
hold_regions Etruria Umbria Latium2 Apulia Campania Kalabria Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Sardin Korsim Atiqa Zeugitana Byzacena Syrthim Mashiliem Mauretania_Massaesili Numidia Phasania Kyrenaia Augila Libye Marmarike Oasis_Megale Thebais Heptanomis Delta_Neilou Ioudaia Phoinike Syria Syria_Koile Kilikia Kappadokia Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pokr_Hayk Pontos_Paralios Phrygia Pamphylia Bithynia Galatia Karia Lydia Mysia Lesbos Krete Kypros Rhodos Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Lakonike Peloponnesos Illyria_Hellenike Epeiros


carthage
hold_regions Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Bithynia Adiabene Assyrie Syria Hayasdan Sophene Kilikia Pamphylia Karia Aghvan Kartli Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Galatia Phrygia Lydia Mysia Lesbos Egrisi Maeotis Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos Skythia Mikra_Skythia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia Adurbadegan Mesopotamia Babylonia


parthia
hold_regions Margiana Astauene Aria Parthyaia Hyrkania Khoarene Gabiene Karmania Persis Elymais Media Adiabene Mesopotamia Charax_Spasinou Babylonia Assyrie Syria Adurbadegan Syria_Koile Tadmor


pontus
hold_regions 
take_regions 50

gauls
hold_regions Armoriae Mrogaule Lemorisae Aquitae Batromorgan Arvernotorg Volcallra Greseoallra Lugonesis Sequallra Nervaea_Belgae Bellovacaea_Belgae Habukolandam Heruskolandam Vindelicos Helvetis Rhaetia Noricae Insubramrog Liguria Aemilia Umbria Venetia Mrogbonna Lugouw Coutinoe Eravacouw Pannonia Scorcouw


germans
hold_regions Swebolandam Rugolandam Silengolandam Mrog_Arctagone Heruskolandam Habukolandam Kimbrolandam Skandza Latium Venedu_Tauta Sembu_Gentys Lugouw Bastarnolandam Coutinoe Eravacouw Mrogbonna Pannonia Noricae Vindelicos Rhaetia Helvetis Lugonesis Sequallra Nervaea_Belgae Bellovacaea_Belgae Mrogaedu 


britons
hold_regions Cassemorg Cornovae Corieltauvae Cambriae Brigantiae Caledryn Cruddain Erain Kimbrolandam Habukolandam Nervaea_Belgae Bellovacaea_Belgae Mrogaule Armoriae Lemorisae Aquitae


armenia
hold_regions 
take_regions 50

dacia
hold_regions Getia_Koile Getia Mikra_Skythia Skythia Bastarnolandam Thraikia_Hypertera Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia Bithynia Makedonia Dardanoia Epeiros Illyria_Hellenike Dalmatia Pannonia_Illyrica Pannonia Scorcouw Eravacouw Coutinoe 


greek_cities
hold_regions Lakonike Peloponnesos Attike Euboia Aitolia Epeiros Illyria_Hellenike Makedonia Chersonesos_Thraikia Kalabria Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Krete Rhodos Lesbos Kypros Pamphylia Karia Lydia Mysia Bithynia Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Taurike_Chersonesos Bosporion_Tyrranesis


numidia
hold_regions Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Marmarike Sinai Ioudaia Phoinike Syria_Koile Syria Sophene Assyrie Mesopotamia Babylonia Charax_Spasinou Kilikia Pamphylia Karia Lydia Phrygia Mysia Bithynia Kypros Rhodos Lesbos Krete Euboia Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Thessalia


scythia
hold_regions Armoriae Mrogaule Lemorisae Aquitae Batromorgan Arvernotorg Volcallra Greseoallra Lugonesis Sequallra Nervaea_Belgae Bellovacaea_Belgae Habukolandam Heruskolandam Vindelicos Helvetis Rhaetia Noricae Insubramrog Liguria Aemilia Umbria Venetia Mrogbonna Lugouw Coutinoe Eravacouw Pannonia Scorcouw


spain
hold_regions Turdulia Turdetania Bastetania Carpetania Lusitania Galaecia Asturia Cantabria Celtiberia Lacetania Edetania Volcallra Aquitae Baleares Cruddain Erain 


thrace
hold_regions Illyria_Hellenike Epeiros Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike Chersonesos_Thraikia Kalabria Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Sardin Korsim Atiqa Zeugitana Apulia Campania Latium2 Umbria Etruria Liguria Greseoallra Bithynia Mysia Lesbos Lydia Phrygia Karia Rhodos Pamphylia Kilikia Syria Kypros Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios


saba
hold_regions Saba Qataban Hadramaut Zufar Maketa Gerrhaia_Arabia Charax_Spasinou Babylonia Mesopotamia Assyrie Syria Tadmor Syria_Koile Phoinike Ioudaia Main Nabataia Sinai Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Thebais Triakontaschoinos Erythraia Kush Diamat Oasis_Megale Libye Marmarike Augila Kyrenaia

[Dumbass]

Thanks a lot! I'll test these for my next campaign. I like how my victory conditions are working though. One good thing is that I made Seleucid victory conditions only for the provinces are syria and the coast. Both ptolemaioi and seleucids have conditions to go for jerusalem and damaskos. This ensures there's a continual war along that front but means that it is stuck in a stalemate. Stopp both grey death and yellow fever becoming out of control. It's also meant that pahlav and baktria have been able to expand in from the east. Same with hayasdan.

[konny]

Yes, it turned out that giving them to many VCs that they already posses makes the AI factions "lazy". I haven't tested it with EB 1.1 so far, but I think it might work better with BI.exe or ALX.exe because both were designed to use it, while RTW.exe only had this as a patch on modders demand.

[||Lz3||]

excuse me if Im ignorant

but aren't those RTW vanilla VC??


well at least faction names...