Price change for Principes

[TruePraetorian]

Ok, so i've decided that I am not too fond of how Hastati and Principes are so similiar in cost that there is no point to purchasing Hastati other then roleplay reasons.

That is why I ask what should I do to better reflect the differences between the two? Some may say that they are the same except for some equipment difference but you have to consider the realistic economic impact the more wealthy Principe being away from home.

So,how much should I raise the cost/upkeep? I want to keep the price not only in consideration to the Hastati but also to other factions troops (If the Principes are not as good as "dadada" then they shouldnt cost the same)

[dimb]

there is no point to purchasing Hastati other then roleplay reasons

I don't think so. AFAIK Spear soldiers vs Infantry has a -4 atack value, also I believe the sword have a faster attack rate than the spear.
I always play with a half stack: General, 2 hastati, 2 principes, 1 triarii and the rest are auxiliarii. The hastati are always in the first line, holding the sword infantry and the auxiliarii engage the rest of the enemy first line. When the hastatii get tired, principes charge against the center of the enemy line, the tired troops usually drop like flies and run away after a few casualties.

you have to consider the realistic economic impact the more wealthy Principe being away from home.

If you think about it, every time a principe it's recruited, maybe another older one will be disbanded and return home.

It just a thought

[TruePraetorian]

I don't think so. AFAIK Spear soldiers vs Infantry has a -4 atack value, also I believe the sword have a faster attack rate than the spear.

This is true for the Camillan era but not the Polybian as both Hastati and Principes are equipped with swords.

And as to your battle strategy that is precisely what I do. That is why I was looking to increase the cost of the Principe to make it "more fair" economy wise. It's just one of those things that bugs me..I would rather see the Principe 200mnai more or so so when I am in that "tight" situation with limited mnai I have to make a decision. Just a minor thought.

But yeah I can change it all fine by myself I just have no clue on how much to up it by and was kind of waiting for an EB team member to give some suggestions, considering if I do it I might not make it realistic.

[DaciaJC]

Just a note: the Camillan Principes, though they carry spears, do not suffer a -4 attack against sword infantry. See this thread for details.

[TruePraetorian]

Alright I raised the price on Camillan and Polybian principes by 200 mani each. Also, I raised the upkeep accordingly.

Sound good to anyone else? Really hope i'm not unbaclancing my game by doing this..

[Mulceber]

Yeah, I don't think that making things more difficult for the Romani is likely to unbalance things much... -M

[TruePraetorian]

Yeah, I don't think that making things more difficult for the Romani is likely to unbalance things much... -M

Never thought of it like that. Good point

[seienchin]

Alright I raised the price on Camillan and Polybian principes by 200 mani each. Also, I raised the upkeep accordingly.

Sound good to anyone else? Really hope i'm not unbaclancing my game by doing this..

The Ai romans are weak and never expand much anyway... Unless you boarder them, then they start creating the biggest warmachine ever

[Cute Wolf]

But better still to give them an extra attack or two... then you can raise their cost 200-300 minai

[Watchman]

Regarding the OP: recall, though, that the wealthier Principes-class soldiers would also have been better able to afford having someone "sub" for them while they were away fighting... not sure how exactly they handled it, but for the sake of comparision when a Viking Age Scandinavian peasant went aborad (to raid or trade, made no difference) he left his wife and the most trusted senior household slave run the farm in his absence. Worked well enough. Similarly Medieval knights and the like left their estates to a senesalch and female family members when they left for faraway battlefields (and might end up spending years as a hostage waiting for friends and relatives scrape together ransom money...).
*shrug*
But I'm no expert on the details of Republican Roman socioeconomic arrangements.

Anyway, the stat and price similarity between particularly the Camillian Hastati and Principes is a bit of "what can you do?" thing, because that's the result you get with the given unit parameters when employing the formulas and values used to compute EB unit stats and prices. I should know, I've done those calculations often enough...

[Dayve]

The Ai romans are weak and never expand much anyway... Unless you boarder them, then they start creating the biggest warmachine ever

Still easy to kill though... i haven't played since Empire came out but i remember playing as the Epirotes, building a phalanx army with light support troops, landing it in Taras and marching all the way up the Italian peninsula with it in a war that lasted over 10 years. The Romans simply threw themselves on the tips of my phalanx.

It was fun to see it develop. At firs i was fighting armies of heavy infantry, and as the years went on and i had their ports blockaded Rorarii began playing a bigger and bigger role in their armies. By the time i reached Rome after 4 or so years fighting, i besieged the empty city with around a third of my army while the rest camped north and held off any relief attempts. I besieged the city for about 2 years, asking for protectorate status every turn because i didn't want to eliminate Rome, just defeat them, but eventually i just took the city.

After that, Rome controlled Arretium, Ariminum and the 4 provinces north. It was all over for them by that point. They still sent armies my way, but they consisted of Rorari and Lugoae, which fare very, very very poorly in frontal assaults against levy phalanxes and phalangitai with 2 and 3 units of silver experience.

I did eventually reduce the Romans to Patavium and they finally accepted a ceasefire. I left them alone for 2 years or so and then decided to put them out of their misery.

I couldn't even count how many were killed in the campaign. They literally sent 2 or 3 armies at me every single turn for the entirety of the campaign, the dead must have been well over 30,000, considering i play on huge and each army was a full stack of support units but with no main units for them to support.