phalangitai and missile in the woods

[belliger]

hi all.
recently i am conquering greece, as a roman.
it means, obviously, that i have to face makedonia, epeiros, and koinon ellenon.
no problem about it - i mean, with legions, who cares how many they are. just ask where they are! - .
the funny thing is that often i have to face the phalangitai - with sarissae, veery long spears - in the middle of the woods.
this does not seem to disturb them. they keep formation, move, fight, without any problem.
this seems to me rather unrealistic...
moreover, i noticed that the covert of the woods is not that effective against missile troops. i mean: if you are in the woods, bullets and arrows shell like hell as in the open ground. if some missile troops fire from the woods, all their f..ing bullets and arrows arrive straight over your head.
rather strange, i guess.
hope i posted it in the right place.
cheers

[Atraphoenix]

1-think about Alexander Campaign of India phalanxes fought in the forest and they won though nearly Alex died.

2- think about robin hood he ambushed soldiers in the forest.

so they are logical but phalanx armies should have a disadvantage like cavalry while phalanx mode on it may be coded in EDU but if you code phalanx has this advantage wether phalanx mode is on or not so current engine limit give no chance to us.

but archers should be less effective I agree but in ambushes they should have a surprise attack bonus. but AFAIK there is no game engine with that bonus.

[seienchin]

1-think about Alexander Campaign of India phalanxes fought in the forest and they won though nearly Alex died.

2- think about robin hood he ambushed soldiers in the forest.

so they are logical but phalanx armies should have a disadvantage like cavalry while phalanx mode on it may be coded in EDU but if you code phalanx has this advantage wether phalanx mode is on or not so current engine limit give no chance to us.

but archers should be less effective I agree but in ambushes they should have a surprise attack bonus. but AFAIK there is no game engine with that bonus.

1, Thats only in the Movie .... ^^

2. Yes, but Robin Hoods soldier didnt fight in formation like the ones in EB. Buts that the problem with the Rome engine. But anyway units in forests get a bonus against arrows or javelines. But again you cant see it cause in the Rome engine all Missile fly at the target no matter if they hit or not. But you get less casualties.

[satalexton]

the biggest mistake you've made is that ur challanging the hellenes as a barbaroi. ur doomed to fail, sorry.

[Atraphoenix]

shortly possible in life but not with RTW

[Fluvius Camillus]

Probably something hardcoded, I guess EB team cant do anything about it....

[Maion Maroneios]

the biggest mistake you've made is that ur challanging the hellenes as a barbaroi. ur doomed to fail, sorry.

Maion

[seienchin]

I just repeat what I said cause nobody seemed to read it


But anyway units in forests get a bonus against arrows or javelines. But again you cant see it cause in the Rome engine all Missile fly at the target no matter if they hit or not. But you get less casualties.

[Maion Maroneios]

OK dude, you don't have to shout.

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

1, Thats only in the Movie .... ^^

2. Yes, but Robin Hoods soldier didnt fight in formation like the ones in EB. Buts that the problem with the Rome engine. But anyway units in forests get a bonus against arrows or javelines. But again you cant see it cause in the Rome engine all Missile fly at the target no matter if they hit or not. But you get less casualties.

1) Well he did do that crazy Leroy Jenkins move when he went over the wall BY HIMSELF and freaked everyone out. A few siege ladders actually broke under the weight of all the guys trying to save his butt.

[belliger]

no. i did read it. i swear it!!!

[belliger]

but, i still say, phalangitai simply can't fight in the woods.
polybius is extremely explicit in this: phalanx can fight only in open space.
and i don't have ANY historical account over phalanx fighting (and winning) in the woods. the greeks, when campaigning in thrace, had to select special groups of young soldier lighty armed among the phalanx, to face the thracians in the woods.

oops. i forgot. i am not encountering real difficulties facing makedonian and epeiros.
they are many, ok.
but this gives more fun to the struggle .
(you know... with roman legionairs, it is difficult to get difficult )

[Watchman]

Phalanxes get crazy terrain penalties in forests. They rival heavy cav there, actually. *shrug* Best that can be done under the engine, especially considering that realistically that should only apply to the pikes rather than the much more manageable swords and other sidearms...

Note, incidentally, that Alexander's phalangites were basically retrained and -armed psiloi skirmishers and thus had little trouble converting to a light-infantry role for "close terrain" combat. By the EB timeframe, however, this was no longer the case, and such "cross-training" was the hallmark of elite units.

[soup_alex]

Phalanxes get crazy terrain penalties in forests. They rival heavy cav there, actually. *shrug* Best that can be done under the engine, especially considering that realistically that should only apply to the pikes rather than the much more manageable swords and other sidearms...

Yep. I think the problem you're having, belliger, is that even taking into account the hefty penalties that phalangites (and cavalry, and various other footsloggers, too) take when fighting in woods, they're still extremely powerful fighters, and the difficulties of maneouvre-ing and maintaining a phalanx formation in woods that would be clearly observed in reality, just can't be represented any other way in the Rome engine.
You're going to have to use combined arms and superior manoeuvrability to trump the Hellenes with Roma. Or just use the phalanx-breaker exploit...

[Celtic_Punk]

the biggest mistake you've made is that ur challanging the hellenes as a barbaroi. ur doomed to fail, sorry.

I Challenge you Averni vs your faction of choice.

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, well, satalaexton. The Barbaroi are showing us their real faces again. What is the last resort of a failing barbaros? Violence

Maion

[Mr Polska]

Though oddly enough they don't like killing the Carthies. The OP's problem must be why. All the troops are on pikes.

[satalexton]

I Challenge you Averni vs your faction of choice.

I choose......Bartix.

Sorry, u WILL lose that. No hard feelings.

[Celtic_Punk]

ok whatever. you n me, averni vs makedonia. I'll take you down a notch. SEND ME A PM! it will be done! There will be witnesses, there shall be a dinner at 6 afterwards.


BE GONE!