What are your Beliefs?

[Sigurd]

After viewing a rather successful poll in the tavern in Atheist vs. Believer and following the comments in the thread, I felt inclined to take this a little further as a little experiment (on my part). Moreover, to reach as many people as possible I chose the Entrance Hall as the location… there will be a link from the Tavern…

I do not really want any comments in this poll and will do a little summary when I feel everybody have had the chance to vote…
Because of the limited space allowed in the poll-space, I have just posted numbers as options…
These are your choices:

Pick the one that “best” describes your belief…

1 I believe in the existence of one God viewed as the source of man and the world, who transcends yet is immanent in the world.

2 I believe in the existence of God as the creator but I deny that God has any continuing hand in worldly matters.

3 I believe that man, nature, and everything else for that matter, are elements or extensions of God.

4 I believe that God’s existence can neither be proved nor disproved.

5 I believe that the question of the existence of God is open, pending the arrival of more evidence. I am willing to change my belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future.

6 I do not have the time or inclination to think much about God at all.

7 I do not believe in God by conviction… I have read the Bible and studied religion and can give any religion a hard time.

8 I believe in God, but I do not think that salvation only pertains to a few elect or those that claim that their way is the only way under heaven to attain salvation. I do not believe in a favourable God.

9 I believe in God, but I am not sure whether he exists.

10 I believe that God has the same types of emotional, physical and mental characteristics as a human being and that he/she is creator of this world and answers our prayers. I will enjoy an afterlife in his/her kingdom…

Now scroll back up and Vote…

[edit]: small addition in options 10 and 4

[Sigurd]

SUMMARY

Introduction.

All this, the poll, the questions, started with some discussions in the Tavern regarding Agnosticism and the lack thereof in this forum. People were either strong Atheists or strong Theists.
I decided in a moment of frustration to test, in a little experiment, if this was so and maybe draw a little ammunition form it to strengthen my case.
To give you a little taste of the discussions that I am referring to, here is some links to two of my contributions to the discussions:
Who is God?
Atheist or Believer?

Selection
Experiments/Researches with the intent to create new knowledge of something based on the circumstances in the world, especially when it comes to; what do most people think of… what are the main beliefs of… encounter the problem that you can’t reach all of the 6 billion people. You have to make a selection that gives a good representation of the 6 million (universe). I believe that there are more agnostics in the western world than atheist and theist. How would I be able to test this?
Let us look at the selection…
[*]This poll can only be reached by members of this forum.[*]The members of this forum mainly consists of computer owning peeps from western world societies.[*]TOTAL WAR game series is something they all like and play[*]There is 4691 (17.09.03:1649 Juliet) members in this forum, all of which are able to vote in the poll.[*]Based on “how old are you” polls, there are people in all age groups. How old are you?[/list]
There were 76 voters out of the 4691 that did vote ->; not a great selection and certainly not representative for the .org or the world… but hey, it was fun though.

Validity/reliability

Now a little criticism, the poll does favour agnosticism. Moreover, 4 out of 10 questions fall in that category.
The questions can also be divided into 4 atheism-based questions and 6 theist based questions.
The limitation of posts (10) made it impossible to cover all beliefs. This was however not the polls intention, the intention was to unearth agnostic beliefs and IMO it successfully did so.
Can new knowledge be established from this poll? No it cannot, there is far too many holes and inaccuracies in this poll to pull some valid and reliable knowledge from this.


Analysis

In the space of 10 days 76 people voted their beliefs and this is the results:

Q 1: 13 votes
Q 2: 1 vote
Q 3: 7 votes
Q 4: 9 votes
Q 5: 9 votes
Q 6: 9 votes
Q 7: 16 votes
Q 8: 4 votes
Q 9: 2 votes
Q10: 6 votes
-------------------
SUM: 76 votes

One can broadly divide them into the following two groups:

Q 1: Theism
Q 2: Theism
Q 3: Theism
Q 4: Atheism
Q 5: Atheism
Q 6: Atheism
Q 7: Atheism
Q 8: Theism
Q 9: Theism
Q10: Theism

One can Further divide them into the following:

Q 1: Theist (Gnostic)
Q 2: Deist
Q 3: Pantheist
Q 4: Agnostic
Q 5: Agnostic (Atheist)
Q 6: Atheist
Q 7: Atheist (Gnostic)
Q 8: Agnostic (Theist)
Q 9: Agnostic (Theist)
Q10: Theist (Gnostic)[/list]
Lets take a closer look at the Questions:

1 I believe in the existence of one God viewed as the source of man and the world, who transcends yet is immanent in the world.

The traditional view of religious belief; the God(s) create the world, populate it, gives direction and guidance via scripture, prophets and angels. Believes that God is the same today as yesterday and will continue to be the same tomorrow, never changing…

2 I believe in the existence of God as the creator but I deny that God has any continuing hand in worldly matters.

This is a surprising result; I would have thought that this option would be a popular belief in these times. A (Traditional) Deist thinks the heavens are closed and that all religious knowledge can be extracted from the inerrancies in the canon of scripture (Bible, Koran, Thora etc). That we are left to govern ourselves.

Warning Strong personal opinion:
There are not many religions to-day that believes in revelation and continuos contact with heaven. For most religious sects and denominations, “God” has given us everything we need to govern ourselves and has as such effectively closed the heavens. You might argue that “God” has contact with us through his spirit (Holy Ghost for Christians) and I think this is the main reason why none has chosen this option. I am asking; if deity is eternal and his ways are the perfect way, why has things changed? Why has the need for divine guidance (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) suddenly changed? Why do we not have prophets, (apostles,) angels and spectacular miracles today… if “our” God(s) is unchanging, why has tings changed when we today are in deeply need for such things (in a religious sense)?

3 I believe that man, nature, and everything else for that matter, are elements or extensions of God.

this was an option to accommodate the believers that do not really believe in a particular being as god, and that believe the entire universe is one deity… a belief in some greater scheme.
I though in my ignorance that this would harbour Buddhism as well as certain aspects of Hinduism, and I realize that I know nearly nothing of this “way of living”. Other than, it involves searching for nirvana as Buddha did and that it involves some “Golden rules” like that of Christianity.

4 I believe that God’s existence can neither be proved nor disproved.

This is the standard dictionary definition for Agnosticism and usually the choice of them that think of themselves as agnostics.

5 I believe that the question of the existence of God is open, pending the arrival of more evidence. I am willing to change my belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future.

This is also a typical agnostic view…
Many that think of themselves as atheists tend to have this view, but by keeping things open, you allow yourselves to be uncertain… this is what many describe as Agnostic atheism.

6 I do not have the time or inclination to think much about God at all.
This is a rather low number for this category, especially since this choice should accommodate for 80 percent of all atheists.

7 I do not believe in God by conviction… I have read the Bible and studied religion and can give any religion a hard time.

This result does not portray what is normal for this category… according to other statistics this group should only consist of 10 percent of all Atheists… not 21 percent of all voters in all categories. All though I did not accommodate for all of the three types of atheists, question 7 should accommodate for two of them:[*]Ten percent of atheists are atheists because someone they admire is an atheist.[*]Ten percent of atheists are the atheists who really give this *.ism the name. These are the atheists by conviction, the ones who believe with all their hearts, minds and souls. They read the Bible so they have ammunition with which to attack Christians.[/list]

8 I believe in God, but I do not think that salvation only pertains to a few elect or those that claim that their way is the only way under heaven to attain salvation. I do not believe in a favourable God.

This was a trick question, and was put in to capture those that do not believe in Gnosticism. By choosing this, you allowed yourself to be labelled a-gnostic as one that is not Gnostic.

9 I believe in God, but I am not sure whether he exists.

This is also an agnostic view, but it is based on people that do not belong to any denomination. They believe in something but do not really know what this is… also popularly called Agnostic theism…

10 I believe that God has the same types of emotional, physical and mental characteristics as a human being and that he/she is creator of this world and answers our prayers. I will enjoy an afterlife in his/her kingdom…

this was a question I threw in to see if there were any theist that believed in Anthropomorphism; the belief that we are literally created in God’s image, that God is humanoid and have feelings.

Conclusion

So what can be concluded from this little experiment?
I have already mentioned that this is not a very good research experiment and that there are too many scientific faults in it to establish any conclusive knowledge.
I think it proves one point though, and that is; there are Agnostics in the .org forum and if we paint with the narrow brush that I mentioned in my post in Who is God?, this would be the result:

Theists: 27
Agnostics: 24
Atheists: 25
Sum : 76

Two online books on this subject:
Agnosticism
Gnosticism

[edit]: formatting
Sigurd Fafnesbane

[Qilue]

Since I'm a Buddhist, I didn't vote as there wasn't an appropiate option. :/

EDIT - fixed grammar.

[dessa14]

I am a very strong athiest and the belief of god is ridiculous according to the bible the world was created 1 million years before christ this is absurd because of fossil evidence dating back around 1 billion years ago.

secondly according to the bible the world was created in 7 days there is also fossil evidence showing the slow gradual random affect of evolution some cases of evolution during our time include the white cabbage moth during the industrial revolution the smog turned the trees black and the random change in the cabbage moths turning black made it so the white moth was picked to death by birds but the black moth lived on.
thanks dessa

[Wellington]

This elections rigged.

All 10 candidates believe in nothing.

Are you related to Dubya?

I demand a recount ...

[LestaT]

for the unbeliever, for you what you believe and for me what i believe...

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

There is something there, but i don't believe that there is one God above all others.

Also does anyone think if God creates man, who is good and cares about life, does the Devil do the same? Surely God would not have created a person like Myra Hindly or Jeffrey Dahmer if he can see all and what they are capable of? Maybe i'm talking crap but its worth a thought

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Sep. 07 2003,03:44)]I am a very strong athiest and the belief of god is ridiculous

Belief in God is most certainly not ridiculous.

It serves a purpose for some people, which in itself, IMHO, makes it worthwhile.

We all believe in things we cannot prove. Some believe in UFO's, the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, others in life on other planets, the Big Bang theory, time travel ...

Some even believe that Dubya is intelligent.

Does that make all of these beliefs ridiculous also? Of course not.

Religion does tend to be a special case however, because it is one means of fulfilling a need that many of us require fulfilling.

Having said that, however, I think Ambrose Bierce probably got it right when he define 'faith' as -

Belief without reason, in what is said by those who speak without knowledge, of things without parallel

However, that only defines faith ... not God.

Welly

[Tachikaze]

At first, I didn't find an answer that matched my feelings. But then I chose #6, because I don't think about God unless someone asks me about it. There doesn't seem to be any place for God. The world seems complete without one.

[Rajput]

Quote[/b] ]Since I'm a Buddhist, I didn't vote as there wasn't an appropiate option. :/

You're a Buddhist and you're playing total war? What about Ahimsa...

Just kidding

I'm Hindu so I voted number 3

[Knight_Yellow]

i belive religion is for people who need some emotional blanket to make them feel safe.

when you die you die, nothing more nothing less.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Sep. 07 2003,14:10)]i belive religion is for people who need some emotional blanket to make them feel safe.

when you die you die, nothing more nothing less.

This is quite frightening for some, and they can't deal with this. The idea of the personal ego to disapear forever is mindbraking for many. They can deal with the disapearence of their body, but not their personality and knowlage.

I'm an atheist who have studied the bible to an extent that few christians ever do (funny stuff this). i find the phrase I believe that God’s existence can neither be proved nor disproved, based on current evidence to be very interesting in the philosophy of science field. It's the old discussion of were does the burden of proof fall? in the ones who say it exists or the ones who say it does not exist. People with scientific knowlage will relate to the idea that you cannot prove a negation in the form of it does not exists if the intellectual counter-part can come up with all the magic reasoning it desires.

To illustrate this im going to use something from Carl Sagan.

If there is guy that says that there is a dragon in his garage do you believe? Probably not, since it contradicts all that has been demonstrated so far (no evidence of dragons whatsoever, far less alive ones). So you ask him to show you the dragon in his garage. So you go there and stare for a couple minutes at what seems to be an empty garage. Finnally you have enough and say to the guy that the dragon doesn't seem to be there. The guys says it is there, and you say you cannot see it. Then the guy says the dragon is invisible to human eyes. You say, ok i'll get my IR glasses and try to see it. You try your IR glasses and still don't see nothing. Then your friend says you cannot see it with your glasses.

You see that there is need for more drastic experimenting, so you collect some gear (a few nets to sweep the garage, some dust to throw on the dragon...). You try to find any evidence of the dragon's existance and fail. Your friend says that the reason all those methods did not work was because the dragon was not corporeal... By this point you are starting to get a little suspicious and ask How do you know there is a dragon in this garage?. Your friend then says he can FEEL the dragon and is certain of his existance dispite your failure to find any evidence of it.

This is an open story, now you either:

1- join the cult of the dragon in garage because you can FEEL it too;

2- say that there is not enough evidence to say that the dragon exists or not (pretty similar to the phrase of the poll);

3- leave your friend with his dragon and declare that there is no dragon in that garage.

By this one can define three big classes of ways to face religion:

1- Believers
2- Agnostics
3- Atheists

I'm one of the last. I'm also open to any new evidence that comes up in this particular question. Until then i find the possibility of the existance of god/s to have the same probability of the existance of:

- Ghosts
- Vampires
- Santa
- Little green men from mars
- The Tooth Fairy
...

Although i do not believe in it i do not find ridiculous to believe (whatever makes you tic), to me, it is just funny.

[jimmy]

the emotional blanket theory holds up to scrutiny as regards people who are terminaly ill or have lost loved ones it kind of gives them something to look forward to. i hope theres something after i very much doubt it? though.speaking through experince whos parents died young i hope to seem them again. as regards people who have lost children spouses the church gives them some comfort as regards emotional support to over come there grief at a very vunrable point in time.on the flip side millions have died in the name of religion either enforcing or opposing the faith depending on you religious view point.so it has its good points and bad. as regards evoloution thats were religon [catholic] really falls down every ones entilted to there view as long as you are given all the facts.

PS is RE still a compulisive lesson in schools?

[econ21]

Portugese Rebel - a nice post; it puts my position better than I ever could. I know agnosticism can be easily defended intellectually from a position of scepticism (of everything) but religion does seem to be about faith or belief. At some level, I suspect people either believe there is a God or not - it seems too important an issue to live with a maybe. I can find no reason to believe in one and many reasons to doubt the existence of the gods detailed in the various religions.

[YunDog]

Quote[/b] (Sigurd Fafnesbane @ Sep. 07 2003,14:16)]

Quote[/b] ]3 I believe that man, nature, and everything else for that matter, are elements or extensions of God.

Quote[/b] ]b]8[/b] I believe in God, but I do not think that salvation only pertains to a few elect or those that claim that their way is the only way under heaven to attain salvation. I do not believe in a favourable God.

So I picked 8 but I couldve picked 3, I used to be a traditional roman catholic but I couldnt believe in the church, so now I believe GOD is the energy that pervades all things and is not the property of religion. GOD is everywhere for me, and we are all extensions of that energy like waves on the ocean that rise up and have some identity but eventually diminish back into the ocean.

[Si GeeNa]

Trust a Berserker Jarl to come up with such a profound topic...

Nevertheless, an interesting topic and reflects much about the Total War community.

*We are not just blood-thirsty, altar-worshipping, orgy-driven techno geeks only*

[katar]

me?...... i`m a very content atheist.

no god, no devil..... no problem

could have gone for six, but with my emotions i picked seven.

[squippy]

Yes, there is an option missing: that you think the question of the existance of god is more parsimoniously dealt with without addressing god at all. This is a non-belief, but not out of positive conviction. I really hate the canard that atheists believe in their atheism in a manner qualitatively similar to the belief theists hold in god.

[Nowake]

Nobody is an atheist in a foxhole, IIRC

[Sigurd]

Come on people, VOTE...

There is a limit to how many choices you can put into a poll here and that is... 10…
I would have put more (at least 10 more) if I could … all polls should have a GAH option and a non of the above option… but I am doing a little experiment here and am limited to 10 options. So bear with me…

NB I did ask for no comments in this thread (there are some good ones though), but that’s ok guys… as long as you keep those numbers up… 31 votes so far… keep them coming.

[Judean Prince]

I voted 1, because I am Jewish..(it is kind of obvious from my name and my avatar picture lol ) though, I can absolutely understand all of the atheists and where they are coming from, and I have nothing against them, I have a system of beliefs, and they have a system of disbelieve so to speak...

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Sep. 07 2003,03:44)]secondly according to the bible the world was created in 7 days

Actually, it is very interesting, my Biology teacher is a very strict Jew, and she says she finds no contradiction between the bible and the reality, now the funny thing is, it's not like she tells us that the world was created in 7 days, no evolution etc. etc. she actually told us how millions of years ago single cells developed in the water into fish, and from fish to reptiles etc. etc., I will ask her how she finds no contradiction, and I'll tell you about it.

[The_Emperor]

I was raised as a Christian by my parents, but as I got older I rebelled against it all...

I agree with Woody Allen, If there is a God, the worst thing you can say about him is that he's basically an underachiever

[Jacque Schtrapp]

I believe and I pity those who have nothing to believe in.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ Sep. 08 2003,13:22)]I believe and I pity those who have nothing to believe in.

Who says they have nothing to believe in?

That's just your opinion ...

... and it sounds typical of USA Bible belt opinion to me.

Did you vote for Dubya?

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Sep. 08 2003,18:04)]

Quote[/b] (Jacque Schtrapp @ Sep. 08 2003,13:22)]I believe and I pity those who have nothing to believe in.

Who says they have nothing to believe in?

That's just your opinion ...

... and it sounds typical of USA Bible belt opinion to me.

Did you vote for Dubya?

I think he did, unless he is a republican renegade, ain't that right Jacque?

Quote[/b] ]Actually, it is very interesting, my Biology teacher is a very strict Jew, and she says she finds no contradiction between the bible and the reality, now the funny thing is, it's not like she tells us that the world was created in 7 days, no evolution etc. etc. she actually told us how millions of years ago single cells developed in the water into fish, and from fish to reptiles etc. etc., I will ask her how she finds no contradiction, and I'll tell you about it.

This does not surprise me. I'm a biology/geology teacher too, and i have coleagues that are catholics. For them, the genesis part of the bible is not to be taken literally. In their opinion 7 bible days are not 24 hour days. Each day represents an age. Of course, that, in my opinion, they are just trying to fit the beliefs they had as children to the science they teach. I say this because if they really were to trouble themselves to read the bible they would see that, if days mean ages, then the trees had to survive without sun for at least some million years. But they don't really care about this since their interest is just to have something to grab on, not hard facts.

Quote[/b] ]NB I did ask for no comments in this thread (there are some good ones though),

No comments on this one Sigurd? Come on, this one is too good to pass on

[Sigurd]

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ Sep. 09 2003,09:54)]I'm a biology/geology teacher too, and i have coleagues that are catholics. For them, the genesis part of the bible is not to be taken literally. In their opinion 7 bible days are not 24 hour days. Each day represents an age. Of course, that, in my opinion, they are just trying to fit the beliefs they had as children to the science they teach. I say this because if they really were to trouble themselves to read the bible they would see that, if days mean ages, then the trees had to survive without sun for at least some million years. But they don't really care about this since their interest is just to have something to grab on, not hard facts.

Quote[/b] ]NB I did ask for no comments in this thread (there are some good ones though),

No comments on this one Sigurd? Come on, this one is too good to pass on

Yes I wanted a non-comment thread…
Comments made by strong opinionates like yourself does have IMO an effect on voters, especially when it comes to atheism… I will discuss this further in my conclusion…

I’ll give in (a little) because there is some interesting points here…

First of all the creation…
This is one church denomination’s (Christian) view on the creation:

You ask the learned doctors why they say the world was made out of nothing, and they will answer, Doesn't the Bible say He created the world? And they infer, from the word create, that it must have been made out of nothing. Now, the word create came from the word baurau, which does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos–chaotic matter, which is element, and in which dwells all the glory. Element had an existence from the time He had. The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and re-organized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning and can have no end.
(The Leader of the church 1 day for God (as one rotation of His “Planet”?) is 1000 years for man (as one rotation of earth, 24hrs).

I am trying to stay objective here and this is just a little response to try to balance things back to pre-posting in this thread…

Now continue and VOTE people…

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]Nobody is an atheist in a foxhole, IIRC

iv`e seen death up close and i`m still an atheist.

Quote[/b] ]I believe and I pity those who have nothing to believe in.

don`t pity, pity is an arrogant and destructive emotion.

you should just try to empathise with the rest of humanity.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, there is an option missing: that you think the question of the existance of god is more parsimoniously dealt with without addressing god at all. This is a non-belief, but not out of positive conviction. I really hate the canard that atheists believe in their atheism in a manner qualitatively similar to the belief theists hold in god.

i couldn`t agree more

[Sigurd]

Quote[/b] (squippy @ Sep. 08 2003,18:10)]Yes, there is an option missing: that you think the question of the existance of god is more parsimoniously dealt with without addressing god at all. This is a non-belief, but not out of positive conviction. I really hate the canard that atheists believe in their atheism in a manner qualitatively similar to the belief theists hold in god.

If the sentences you have written is connected as supporting each other... -> I would think option 6 covers this non-belief… maybe the phrasing lacks…something… I think the keyword inclination in the option nails it though…

[dessa14]

Quote[/b] (Judean Prince @ Sep. 08 2003,11:44)]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Sep. 07 2003,03:44)]secondly according to the bible the world was created in 7 days

Actually, it is very interesting, my Biology teacher is a very strict Jew, and she says she finds no contradiction between the bible and the reality, now the funny thing is, it's not like she tells us that the world was created in 7 days, no evolution etc. etc. she actually told us how millions of years ago single cells developed in the water into fish, and from fish to reptiles etc. etc., I will ask her how she finds no contradiction, and I'll tell you about it.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Sep. 07 2003,03:44)]secondly according to the bible the world was created in 7 days

Actually, it is very interesting, my Biology teacher is a very strict Jew, and she says she finds no contradiction between the bible and the reality, now the funny thing is, it's not like she tells us that the world was created in 7 days, no evolution etc. etc. she actually told us how millions of years ago single cells developed in the water into fish, and from fish to reptiles etc. etc., I will ask her how she finds no contradiction, and I'll tell you about it.

This is still a contridiction to religion most religions believe in the creationist theory that all creatures were created in their current state all that time ago. that is simply not true proved by fossil evidence the transition of humans from primitive chimps to homo erectus to homo sapien sapien has been proven by what we call in the palentogy community a transitional organism. the creature that brought life out of the water was surely a transitional organism from ground life to land life.
and also the big bang theory is very probable my brother is a astrophysist so i think i would know quite a bit on that affair

Quote[/b] ]You ask the learned doctors why they say the world was made out of nothing, and they will answer, Doesn't the Bible say He created the world? And they infer, from the word create, that it must have been made out of nothing.

and according to most learned scientists they will say that the world was not created from nothing or that god made there is evidence of the world being created from leftover matter from the nebula that used to be here and matter also collected from a local supernovae.

thanks dessa

[King James I]

I have to say I hold to No. 1.
Christianity for me is an avenue for me to believe in and devote myself to something beyond myself. It also gives meaning and purpose to my life. Although I'd pride myself on having an open mind, I've not found anything better to fill that void in my being. Some people fill the void with alcohol, drugs, food, having fun, shopping, or any number of of other things, but I prefer to fill mine with God. That of course does not preclude me from having fun, mixing with friends, playings sports, or many of the other things normal people do, but many of the above would have a negative impact on my life so I do not have anything to do with them.

It also provides a positive moral framework which is a great guide for almost every facet of my life. The Commandments: Do unto others as you would have them do to you and love others as you love yourself are the key principles under which I live. The unfortunate thing is that these principles were/are not put in practice by many others who call or have called themselves Christians. The name Christian was merely a garnish to cover the stink of their rotten souls and some even thought that it was a badge that justifyed their despicable actions.

Although I'm no scientist and don't think myself capable of debating with the more knowledgable members of the forum (Portuguese Rebel for one&#33 I don't think I have mere blind faith in what I believe in.

dessa14: You have brought forth the point concerning the transitional organisms such as the creature that brought life out of the water. I'd just like like to ask why there is no geological (fossils etc) of such creatures?

As for the homo erectus etc they could easily have come about as a result of mutations or genetic deformaties which could have been passed down to their descendants as a consequence of inbreeding.

As for someone elses point regarding the black and white moths. This as well as things like animal's seasonal pelts, species diversity, and even humans racial characteristics are a result of the omniscient Creator's foresight which allows a species to adapt and change to survive a changing environment. That does not include a dramatic and sudden change in the environment (such as the Great Flood and even the sudden climate change caused my mans impact on the earth with consequenses such as Global Warming) as we have seen with the dinosaurs and other species that were ill-equipped to cope with the rapid changes in their environment.

Anyway we'll find out in the end who is right and whether I am right or not I don't see I'm missing out on anything just by being a Christian so what does it matter?