How fast are you?

[Nowake]

Konnichiwa to all the taisho ..

Remember that you all played SP at one moment? Well, I was wondering how good you were at handling a campaign. How fast can you finish a SP game?

I haven't played Shogy for a year, but I had one or two days free this week and thought to give it a go, to see how rusty have I become. I fared well, but comparing results is always a challenge.

Of course, you need some rules in order to cast a vote; these are:

expert level
never load a game
never attack the factions with whom you are officially allied to

and I usually start from 1550, as all the clans are available and it is the most historically accurate.

[Oaty]

Oops I voted before I read the thread but its pretty much same anyways as sometimes an expert games is sometimes quicker because the A.I. is designed to be more agrresive wich in actuallity leads the A.I making a dumb move.

As far as attacking a faction that you are allied to is almost a joke, The A.I does the favour for you.

[Nowake]

Well, really wonder how much can a small mistake cost you?

Meaning, myself managed to finish with Hojo in 13 years; on the other hand, managed to finish with Mori in 13 years also ..

With the Hojo made two mistakes: 1 small defeat in Shimotsuke in 1552 against Uesugi where lost about 80 men, and took over Kazusa two turns after conquered all the other provinces, because me forgot to move some troops in Shimosa in time. With Mori me made none .. too obvious at least.

With Oda finished in 18, and suffered again no defeat. Why is that? Well, maybe if I would have been in a rush, I would have finished in 16, but I'm sure as hell it wouldn't have been 13 years.



Btw, has anyone finished in less than 10 years?

[insolent1]

Well when I first played the game I used to be quick about 15-20 years but now after playing MTW for so long i'm kinda slow

Btw in my current 1580 Imagawa campaign the Hojo Damiyo was assassinated & his lands went to Uesegi. I had a quick look with .matteosartori. & it was an Uesegi asssassin
I've been playing with the battle time limit & it has cost me a few victories so far so I decided to turn it off & the next year Owari was invaded by Oda & his whole army just sat there. I didn't have enough troops to launch an attack over the bridge so I waited & waited...eventually I had to quit the battle & reload an earliar save & put back on timelimit
This is not the first time i've seen this happen but I always had had the timelimit on so it was no problem.

[Gregoshi]

I'm in no hurry. I build up my lands so my legacy endures long after I'm gone.

[insolent1]

Problem is the Geisha's, I faced one in one of my campaigns after 20 years(Mori must have got money from somewhere). It was like a Benny Hill chase every turn my damiyo was on the move to try & avoid her & I also had to move hordes of shinobi's to try & block. I had 6 2+ honour ninja go after her & they all failed
I 've also noticed that STW AI uses the same cheat as the MTW one. Basically the AI can target their strategic units against you without knowing where they are
example
You have just bribed rebels and soon you have spainish inquisitors trying to burn your new aquisitions eventhough you are Polish have no borders, no spainish emissaries, princess's or priests in your lands(no ships either) or in STW ninja or geisha can target generals, heirs or damiyos without knowing where they are.

[DeadRunner]

I am like Gregoshi first i build up my lands ,when they are in a good economic level i get to conquering.

The main reason that i take time is because the conquered lands i developed them to a good lvl(no revolts: peasant happy=no revolt=taish very happy)

[HicRic]

I must admit I'm very slow when it comes to playing Shogun through. The first time I won, my Daimyo was 93 years old

I'd be very amazed if anyone finished it in under 10 years. That'd be quite an achievement

[Nowake]

Yesterday finished my Takeda campaign.

It was done in 7 years So it is possible, even if it was the most ground-breaking experience. Finnally, I had all my startpoint generals + Morozumi Masakyo at 4 star (this means 7 4 star generals), Kansuke at 5 and both my heirs at 3.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In old shogun I remember being able to beat campaign in 10 years with some clans...but in MI it is a better strategy to sit back and develop until you outech the AI a rediculous amount.

[barocca]

maybe i'm too rusty,

i can storm a bridge with ashigaru, 1xUnit nodachi and no archers at all (in my attack force),

i can get my legendary sword event in the first turn,

i can get to a point where i know i cannot lose in under 10 years, not even to the hojo/eusugi/oda horde

but i cannot get Shimazu across the finish line in 13 years...


B.

[TosaInu]

13 years? 1.02 stats?

[barocca]

yes 1.02 stats,

heres the best i have managed so far,
screenshot and [url="http://www.totalwar.org/barocca/misc/Risk_1558_summer.zip"]Save Game File

[barocca]

the army that is highlighted is ready to move,
another army of seven units is assembling in Busen,
but nowhere near the quality of troops, ready to go next turn,

I have been stalled with rebellions, but i put them all down.
many without fiing a shot,
ninja are running all over at the moment killing my emissaries,
i have border wathctowers in all province,
can build lots of good troop types in Satsuma, (inc no-dachi-h+1 and monks-h+0) with a +2 attack (swordsmith),
h+1 spears in Tosa,
h+0 spears in Bungo,
and h+1 archers in Hizen.

[TosaInu]

I killed 99 enemies with 11 men in the first battle, but those were the hatamoto thus I didn't get the sword event.

Wasted over 20 YC in the 2nd battle.

I mainly rely on YA (cheap and many). But it appears I'm using 1.03 (slightly weak YA).

Game crashed in 1552.

Fresh start

[ah_dut]

I take years and years, I turtle and PWN all with Kensai

[zelda12]

I got 11 years with oda in early period. Yari rush. Need I say more. I usually play by capturing a buffer zone around my starting provinces building the inner ones than attacking outwards building max farm wherever I go to support my armies.

[barocca]

Shimazu is too poor :-(
all the lands nearby are highlands, the nearest mine is iyo,
and it is rare to capture it intact,
their are only 2 developed rebel provinces and both are three moves away - so there's little plunder to be had.

I took many risks to get that far that fast

But with the capture of iyo/tosa/sanuki and awa in one year, plus the alliances and a couple of ports i just got to a decent economic level, now providing i can pin down mori nice and quick i might be in with a chance for 15 years...

[TosaInu]

I captured Kyush (the whole mainisland) within two years, but problems started then as I need to consolidate to expand further.

[barocca]

still have not got it done in 13 years
- by year 1563 i have taken wakasa, omi, iga and everything to the west - and thats with a lot of risky attacks

following the rules you cannot attack an allied player

some ideas

ally only with hojo, uesugi and takeda - those 3 will beat themselves up,

oda and imagawa seem to do ok on expert level - they will be your second and third conquests, so dont ally with them,
likewise mori - ignore alliance with him.

first thing you should build is another castle, then a teahouse,
now you can build shinobi and i recommend try to do so every turn.
plonk one or two in each province you have held for a while and 3 or 4 in new captures.

they cost nothing to maintain and are more effective than ashigaru.
you still want ashi, and a handy number of them too, for garrsion duty while your elite troops keep grinding down your enemies. - you need some troops until the province goes green loyalty, then they willl stay that way with a shinobi ir two.

Shimazu can build and maintain no-dachi for a discount,
use them, lots of them, combine with archers and a couple of yari sams for enemy cav and you have a tough army,

build a swordsmith in satsuma as soon as you can afford one.
upgrade it as soon as you can afford one.

watch your heirs and only build units you want them in when they pop up - yarisam is a good one, archers are ok too.

try to take the richest provinces from the enemy first - lots of buildings give you lots of pillage - essential for shimazu.
plus you reduce the number of units they can build too.

seems like the ai is silly about sallying out of a seige, they will hold on even if you all you have seiging them are a few ashi.
so leave ashi behind and keep marching on,

build ports where ever you are building units,
build ports whenever you can afford to - 200 koku per year trade income.
build watchtoweres as soon as you take a province, may not have the cash for the first few turns, but sooner is better.

in battle flank flank flank, and if you are flanking with no-dachi, give them a covering unit to intercept anything the ai tries to send into the back of your flankers when they engage

try to get into the best position, uphill
even if it means marching all the way around the edge of the map.

if you get a super honour unit, even if it only 20 men try not to merge it with anything much lower and keep them away from archers.
16 honour 6 no-dachi made a right mess of a unit of h2 naginata cav by flanking them.

when you take tosa take advantage of the ashi bonus, very handy.

try to build up your generals.

BEWARE of the win/lose bug, if an ally helps you in a battle your general automatically "loses" the battle. this can cost him a star, so if you think an ally might help in the attack make sure the general you use can afford to lose a battle without losing a command point.

try to keep small armies in "central" locations until province turns to good loyalty, usually an archer 2 no dachi and a yarisam can take care of most rebels.

===
thats all i can think of for now, sleep time,
B.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

Tough, it's not really my style of playing and I lack some routine. I also submit turns before optimizing every bit: for example too much garison in provinces that have over 150% loyalty. I could have used those to press the attack more.

I took some risks, but not too much of an all or nothing approach. Nasty thing about Shimazu is the Portugese offer in turn 2. Accept it and you'll get too many revolts for the rush.
I've rejected every offer.

I also had some luck early on, the AI insisted on taking back a province he just lost and I happened to have some cavalry to slaughter routers. Taking the rest of Kyushu was then rather effortless, as the rebels just lost 100's of men. Especially the river province Chikugo can be a pain (lots of lsam).



Year is 1562 now, I have a nice income, a decent supply line thanks to ports and can produce H1W2 Nodachis for 225, Lcav , loads of YA and gold armor Ysams (also some YC and lsam). I secured everything west of the Owari, Omi, Wakasa line but 3 provinces. Oda was so kind to eliminate most of the monks in Yamashiro while I was attacking Oda



Only 4 turns to go, so I'm not going to make it. Mori and Oda are eliminated by Shimazu and Uesugi is gone too (round 3 or so). I expect a nasty Hojo surprise in the east.

Barocca, Shimazu 1550 has Shinobies, Emissaries and Ninjas in Hyuga?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm shimazu in 13 years I'll have to try this

[TosaInu]

Here are some more screenshots.



First contact. Slayed his heir and defeated daimyo army in two battles in one turn.



Mori, Oda and Imagawa are eliminated by Shimazu.



After Summer 1563. Attacked Shinano to prevent Takeda to reinforce other provinces. He went beserk with his YariCav general and was attacked from 4 sides by 4 full H0 lcav units. The remaining lsam wasn't much of a problem then. Unexpectedly conquered another province.



After Autumn 1563.

I leave Yamashiro untouched until only one clan is left. Don't want clans to ally against me. Almost every province is garrisoned.

[barocca]

thats a whole lot better than i am doing,
i think i am too cautious

off to work very soon, will post some screens tonight when i get home

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well I started this campaign...it is now winter 1552 and I have all of kyushu + Iyo, Tosa and Nagato. Got my legendary swordsman in a castle assault in nagato. Daimyo will be rank 4 soon and one of my heirs is near to rank 5 I had a stroke of luch early on, all the rebels in buzen chikuzen and Iyo tried to lift the seige in bungo...580 vs my 270, killed 500 lost 41 and the rest died in the seige. I've gotten to the tricky part now where I am constantly fighting on two fronts. Built: port,one small castle one spear dojo 2 improved farmland...building level two farmland and sword dojo and horse dojo. No rebellions yet, a couple close calls though I've been getting a province a turn which is not enough to conquer japan in less than 13 years...

Kills: 1367
Losses: 189

[TosaInu]

With some luck you can take 2-4 at a time later on. You are well on track. You had that lift siege in Bungo too? That's of a great help. You could walk straight into Chikuzen?

[barocca]

i restarted my campaign

1550
Spring i invaded Higo,
Summer was an invasion of Bungo,
(i made a tactical mistake and lost my Yari Cav - 50 dead)
Autumn saw me launch a risky invasion of Chikugo from 2 provinces, but the rebels came from everywhere to lift the seige of Bungo, i did not fare quite so well as Tosa,
i took some 400 heads and lost 100 - but the upside was the small force invading Chikugo were unopposed and i gained my legendary swordsman event
Winter 1550


1551
seeing i had drawn the rebels in and trapped them in the Castle in Bungo i invaded Chikuzen, Buzen and Iyo this year,
no opposition.
Built a few watchtowers and building a shinobi each turn that i can afford, placed a castle in Buzen
Winter 1551


1552
Tosa, Sanuki and Awa fell to my forces this year,
a few small skirmishes, Sword Dojo is complete and the archery and yari dojo's are in the queue in Buzen.
My army is gathering for the invasion of Hizen, as soon as a nodachi gets to the front lines i will invade
Winter 1552



1553
I have built no major improvements this year,
concentrating on troops,
an attempted invasion of Bizen on the mainland was thwarted by a counter invasion into sanuki, but i killed 105 rebels and lost just 1 man.
The next turn i invaded both Hizen and Bizen with spectacular success in both.In both province garrisons remain holed up in the castles, but they will be eliminated either during winter this turn, or i may wait for the spring in 1554.
The invasion of Hizen cost me 80 men but i took 330 heads.
Winter 1553



Like Tosa i am managing one province per turn,
on a positive note my income is up and i will build one or two ports this year. I will also be sending any shot-up front line troops back to rebuild.

I beleive that such grand starts, from both of us, will soon allow us to invade 2 or 3 provinces per turn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Quote[/b] (TosaInu @ June 24 2004,12:17)]With some luck you can take 2-4 at a time later on. You are well on track. You had that lift siege in Bungo too? That's of a great help. You could walk straight into Chikuzen?

Yes Chikuzen Buzen and Iyo were all left empty

The trickiest part is coming through the mori lands as you have lot's of border provinces...a total of 4 if you are going through shikoku. Nagato and chikuga are the the only provinces that have given me trouble so far, 2/3 of my casualties are from them; I've yet to lose more than 20 in taking any of the other provinces. The AI just can't protect itself against the cav to the rear morale penalty

[TosaInu]

After securing Kyushu and ShiKoku (mainisland), I split my forces: daimyo through Nagato (I had the luck that it was still owned by the rebels, in fact I invaded it when Mori atacked it as well, Mori defeated the rebels and I watched ) and a high star general uses the port in Hizen to go to Bizen. The rebel provinces in the east shielded me from Oda, and I could do cat and mice with Mori.

[barocca]

please wait while pictures load,
they are smaller than the last lot i posted, i reduced all these,
i think Tosa reduced the ones i posted before.

1554
Spring came and I declared war on Mori and Invaded Nagato, the garrisons in Hizen and Bizen were eliminated in assaults
Summer and i consolidated my position, brought fresh troops up to the front,
Autumn saw me launch invasions into Bitchu, Awaji, Suo and Iwami,
sadly the rebels counter invaded into Awa and the winter turn i had to retake the province, and again saw me moving troops into position for next years assaults
Winter 1554



1555
Spring saw Mori invade and conquer Hoki while i Invaded Aki and Bingo trapping the Mori Daimyo in Aki castle and Mori's sole heir in Hoki.
Summer saw Mori try to invade Bingo while i launched a raid into Hoki - my target, the Mori Heir - i had to kill him,
I sent my son (an archer), 3 yari sam, an ashigaru and a second archer - the mission Kill Mori's Heir.
His Heir was leader of a troop of 12 Cav archers, but the province was heavily garrisoned, i had no hope of taking the province, Naginata and Naginata Cavalry, plus cav archers, archers and yari sam (all with improved, superior or legendary armour).
I hoped my son could retreat once the mission was accomplished, but that would need Buddha's compassion.
As luck would have it Mori's heir was killed as the Mori infantry charged my line, He was shot down by my archers,
I set my infantry on hold formation, hold position and ordered my heir to withdraw - he did so successfully and fully 60 of my yari sam were also able to escape the ensuing rout,
i lost 2 yarisams, the ashigaru and the second archer.
Mission Accomplished, with my assault on Aki castle at the same time clan Mori were eliminated.
Autumn i consolidated and merged damaged units,
Winter saw an invasion into Izumo, despite being outnumbered (by only a small number) i took 338 heads and lost 24 men.
I also sent a raid into Kawachi to try and draw supporting neighboring rebel forces into one location, they did not take the bait, and despite having only undermanned units (no-dachi, yari sam and archer - 1 of each) i decided to try for the province, rushed my archer to the bridge and charged yari sam and nodachi across, after a brief bitter fight with the warrior monks and supporting lsam and ashigaru units my men succeeded.
Winter 1555



1556
1556 and i had no opposition close to me other than rebels.
I had to push east quickly to prevent Oda sweeping into the vacuum i was creating.
Spring and i invaded Hoki, facing the tough well experienced former Mori troops, They fought hard but managed to withdraw to Inaba in a reasonable fashion - note to self BUILD CAVALRY
Summer saw me take Mimsaka and Harima.

Autumn 1556
i expected a counter invasion somewhere from the rebel army in Inaba, any province they had struck would have been hard pressed to hold.

Autumn saw me gather as many men as i could, merge damaged units, and get as many troops to the front lines as i could, my ports are finally being built and this will make deploying to the front lines much swifter.
Winter and it was on for young and old,
I decided to try and draw troops out of Inaba by staging a raid into Tajima. I also tried to draw troops from Yamashiro by raiding into Tamba - again the rebels, despite outnumbering my raiding parties failed to take the bait and I wound up in control of those provinces.
I also assaulted Inaba, with a very mixed bunch of units (experience and upgrades),
1 no-dachi, 1 cavalry archer, 5 Lsam (archers), 5 yarisam, my daimyo and the last 2 men in my yari cav unit
Oddly enough, despite the pasting this stack of units had given me twice before, this time i killed 440 and lost only 73,
half the kills were inflicted by my fresh, brand new from the dojo, cav archers - they exhausted their arrows and then engaged an lsam hand to hand

So by the end turn of Winter 1556 I am holding Everything (including and west of) Tamba, Tajima, Kawachi
Winter 1556


Now i have to begin building some improvements, especially farming upgrades in the good provinces,
I have made a flying start and don't want to lose momentum because i run out of koku all the time..

B.