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    Default RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Most of us have seen the demo, and a lot of people have expressed their opinions on it. That's a great thing.
    What this thread is trying to do is summarize all of them, in the hope that the CA guys will have a look at them and:

    1. Feel good about the fact that people ARE appreciating a lot of the stuff they've given us with this demo, and that most people are enjoying it (to various degrees, of course).
    2. Let them know what we'd like to see changed in the final release of the game, and the problems we think that the demo has (isn't that one of the major goals of a demo, besides marketing and increasing awareness of the game ?)

    If I were to make a (perhaps not very successful) effort of summarizing all of it in a few words, it would sound like this:
    "Absolutely great looks, effects and eye-candy, somewhat disappointing as far as the immersion feeling goes, and could be better in terms of customizability of the UI and gameplay".


    This thread is merely trying to summarize everybody's opinions and put them in some orderly fashion, with the purpose of getting them better organized and all into one place, easier to read and grouped into logical (?) categories.
    So credits go to all the people who have pointed out nice (as well as less-than-nice) things in the threads in the Colosseum.

    Please use this thread to point out things I might have overlooked or left behind (or misrepresented), and I'll periodically edit this post to include them.


    1. Graphics

    - I think it's fair to say that almost everybody enjoyed the graphics: both the terrain and the unit details; night battles rock !
    - the ability to zoom in and watch the battle is great.
    - not sure if this belongs here, but the game seems to run pretty smoothly on even lower-than-minimum-requirements configurations...well done !
    - if possible, a control for anisotropic filtering within the game would be very nice.


    2. Animation

    - melee looks really cool, almost everybody seems to love charges (the animation effects, although not necessarily the speed at which it's done and their scary effectiveness), and a lot of people also love elephants throwing soldiers in the air; most people were thrilled with the various animations.
    - 'flying' units are bad, i.e. units running so fast they look like they're gliding over the battlefield (both inf and cav).
    - reports of camera being "jerky" when selecting a unit


    3. Sounds

    - the spatial effects are really really cool, it's great that you hear them louder when the units are closer and fainter when they're away, and that they're also directional (you can tell _where_ that unit is with respect to your position). That's a big thumbs up from everybody !
    - voices and accents are apparently a rather significant problem for quite a few people; most people were less than thrilled with them; perhaps there is time (and disposition) to tweak them a bit; many people suggested screams/orders in native languages (to the extent that is possible, of course)


    4. Music

    - again, there's no accounting for tastes; people seem to like the main menu music, but opinions vary with respect to the battle music; however, this is certainly just a small sample of the entire amount of music there will be in the final game, so it's hard to formulate a general opinion on the music based on the little we've heard so far.


    5. User Interface

    - valour better shown as figures, not chevrons
    - fatigue should be shown in the unit icons; also ideally as figures/lines
    - ability to resize/turn off the HUD and the minimap and the "commands" panel in the lower right corner
    - when choosing MTW interface / RTW interface, it should be persistent (currently, you have to change it in-game, otherwise, even if you choose MTW in the main menu, and then start the game, the UI will be in RTW-style unless you press ESC during the game and change it...). But it's excellent that we do have a choice about it!
    - also about the "Classic TW style" interface: it would be nice if it were fully consistent with the old one; people reported inconsistencies with respect to dragging to adjust unit spacing and depth, and moving your army while preserving formation.
    - minimap: can we have the option of choosing between arrows and dots as back in MTW ? Too many big arrows together make a mess and you can't tell much from it, also it would be nice to be able to get unit info when hovering over them as in MTW.
    - great customization of settings (audio/video/controls); perhaps some explanations for each setting would be helpful (esp. to new players) ;)
    - possibly show morale in the unit icons as well ? it would be great to have it always available at a glance.
    - big ugly pause box; a screenshot with that on it is worthless; much smaller and more discrete would allow us to take breathtaking screenshots of RTW !
    - speaking of screenshots: can we have an in-game screenshot key as before ?
    - cool thing about rallying the troops; also nice that routing units' flags turn white, although the graphic effect itself is odd for some people (kinda intrusive).
    - time compression handling from within the game (MTW time slider is missed ! ;) ); or at least have more notches of compressing time.
    - Rally hotkey, please ? Also, general's cavalry should have both Wedge and Rally as special abilities (appearing available and working as well).
    - a mouse (not camera) sensitivity/speed slider would be welcome
    - since the game will have time of day settings, can we have that displayed as well during the battle, please ? It might be useful to know how long you have till sunset/dawn, etc.


    6. Game aspect/balance

    - speed: the ratio between the units' running speed and walking speed is too big; units walk a bit too fast, run _way_ too fast, and cavalry is like a maglev train.
    - the melee speed is also a bit fast: units are killed at an amazing rate. Again, think of 'Commando' with 3.12 dead people / second. A lot of people feel like you don't really have time to do anything once the battle is engaged, and, at the rate the units are dying, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference anyway.
    See the "Petition to reduce RTW speed" thread, and "Poll: RTW speed: reduce or not reduce ?" A solution would be an option to adjust speed.
    This is definitely the biggest complaint people have, and most people have it.
    - flaming arrows: quite controversial; in the end, it probably is a nice feature, and it is definitely great that we can turn them off !
    - green arrows underneath units; a big no-no.
    - space now shows dots/lines at destination, not the actual units; how can you tell which unit will end up where ? It was way better in MTW.
    - speed (yup, it's that important)
    - speed - related probably: charges against other fast units tend to be a clickfest; quite a feat to actually click on the right target if it's running at full speed.
    - ability to turn off units repeating orders (big issue; lots of people annoyed by this)
    - ability to turn off the advisor(s) (it's there ! this is a GOOD thing ;))
    - routing units losing their key assignments (that's BAD)
    - one unit can't belong to multiple groups (pity, why not ?)
    - ctrl+1-0 for assigning groups, 1-0 for recalling them - great
    - cut-scenes during battle: really cool, but only if you have the option of disabling them; they're definitely fun, but sometimes during a battle one would rather be focused on the battle itself, and dislike being interrupted to see (for the 1287-th time) how the enemy general is killed. But it's great that they're there, absolutely great ! (hoping for cut scenes in the campaign as well)
    - barbarian units names: barbarian infantry, barbarian cavalry, barbarian skirmishers...please. ;)
    - would be nice to have the factors influencing morale in the tool tip (e.g., in MTW: "worried about flanks", or "happy that flanks are protected", etc).
    - info about a unit is more detailed as the unit is closer - very nice touch !
    - not clear if some unit (elephants, sacred band cav) are overpowered or it is just an effect of the difference of valour between units.
    - a more in-depth tutorial outlining some of the more advanced features (formations, unit depth, generally speaking "advanced" unit control). If that's already planned, that's great !
    - exhausted units should not be able to "run" indefinitely (esp. heavily armoured ones); old STW/MTW system was much more realistic.


    7. (Potential) Bugs

    - ATI cards: the red glare experienced by some people, apparently due to projectiles (not necessarily flaming arrows)
    - flaming arrows occasionally also cause weird effects
    - spears of the Poeni infantry disappear (looks like the unit doesn't have spears);
    - possible pursuit bug: units order to pursue/attack routing enemy just run along them instead of attacking them, OR going _past_ the chased unit and keeping ahead of it... (encountered by _many_ people) (see the 'Pursuit bug ?' thread)
    - units trying to run away get stuck in enemy units' formations; instead of trying to change the direction in which they're routing, they just remain stuck.
    - is music supposed to play throughout an entire battle ? a few people reported that it stopped in the middle of the battle.
    - in the Trebia battle, a few units apparently got stuck in the river and stayed there for the duration of the battle.
    - either the "Halt" command, or disabling "Fire At Will" should stop shooting archers from firing; right now, only moving the archers stops them from shooting.
    - changing a unit's formation while it's marching makes it stop, change formation, but apparently not always continue moving; this used to happen in MTW, units resuming march after switching to the new formation.
    - options from the main menu don't always seem to be carrying over to the in-game menus (e.g. "high quality shadows") (reported on Win98SE, ATI 9800 PRO, Catalyst 4.7 drivers).
    - possibly suicidal enemy generals: reports claim that AI generals blindly charge into units, in a rather suicidal manner (this may be an issue for the demo only)
    - perhaps some cavalry units should have "charge, back off, regroup, and then charge again" more of a priority than they currently have (another thing that may only be a demo issue)
    - using phalanx in an intelligent way (when needed, break formation, change direction, regroup into formation again, rather than trying to rotate as a phalanx) (possibly yet another demo issue)
    - units simply walking into the water and drowning: when AI missile units near a water shore, they keep advancing towards the bridge in a line, thus drowning a significant number of their ranks. To be clear: they are not falling off the bridge, they are advancing to provide missile protection for their troops/to fire at the enemy on the other shore, and instead of forming a narrow and long column to march on the bridge, or to stop at the water shore, they keep advancing straight into the water.
    - less frequent than previous one, but apparently still a bug: routing units on a bridge just seem to die after a few seconds; they simply disappear (no, they don't fall into the water) as they were running.
    Last edited by Blodrast; 09-16-2004 at 22:30.
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

  2. #2
    Resident Spammer Member son of spam's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    I had a big problem with the routing units. Most of the time, I couldn't tell my routing units from theirs because they all looked the same with their huge white flags.

    Perhaps a white flag could pop up out of the unit next to the unit flag or something, but please retain the original unit coloring and the original unit flag.

    EDIT: I just realized that the reason the routing units were white was because I was too zoomed out...whoops.
    Last edited by son of spam; 08-24-2004 at 22:12.

  3. #3
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Great work, Blodrast. Especially that you also pointed out those things you liked best. That is the right way to critisize; you shouldn't just complain, but also point out what is right.
    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

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    Takeda Kygona-san Member Medieval Assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Good list, it's probably alot easier for CA to see what we would enjoy to see, Don't get me wrong CA, this is a VERY GOOD GAME,

    I haven't played it yet, but reports show, people can run this game on 750MHZ computers and computers with 8MB VIDEO CARDS! You did really good there.
    I pledge allegiance to the underworld One nation under dog,There of which I stand alone,A face in the crowdUnsung, against the mold
    Without a doubt
    Singled out
    The only way I know

    Stepped out of the line,Like a sheep runs from the herd
    Marching out of time,To my own beat now
    The only way I know

    One light, one mind,Flashing in the dark
    Blinded by the silence of a thousand broken hearts

    "For crying out loud" she screamed unto me
    A free for all,Screw 'em all
    You are your own sight

    I want to be the minority,I don't need your authority
    Down with the moral majority,I want to be the minority

  5. #5
    European Federalist Member -Isapostolos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    I hope CA reads this. Threads with names like these have been popping up in other places with other names and were turned into wine fests. I hope they take this one more seriously because you have made good points.
    War is not about who is right, but who is left

  6. #6

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    I sure hope CA does read this. It would be nice of them to drop us a post here if they did.

    And the important thing is that they are not MY opinions: like I said, I gathered them from the threads in this forum, and I think that's exactly what makes them important: the fact that they're not just one person's opinions, but of a lot of the people on this board (sure, I have my own likes and disliked, but that's NOT what this thread is; I posted all the opinions I could find, even if I personally disagreed with them).
    I will admit that I tried to make them look slightly more polite, occasionally ~:p
    Last edited by Blodrast; 08-24-2004 at 23:15.
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Great job, Blodrast! If CA makes half of the changes prescribed here (preferably the half I want done ), then Rome Total War could very well be the best game ever. Excellent!


  8. #8
    Member Member spacecadet's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Blodrast

    5. User Interface

    - valour better shown as figures, not chevrons
    - fatigue should be shown in the unit icons; also ideally as figures/lines
    - ability to resize/turn off the HUD and the minimap and the "commands" panel in the lower right corner
    - when choosing MTW interface / RTW interface, it should be persistent (currently, you have to change it in-game, otherwise, even if you choose MTW in the main menu, and then start the game, the UI will be in RTW-style unless you press ESC during the game and change it...). But it's excellent that we do have a choice about it!
    - minimap: can we have the option of choosing between arrows and dots as back in MTW ? Too many big arrows together make a mess and you can't tell much from it, also it would be nice to be able to get unit info when hovering over them as in MTW.
    - great customization of settings (audio/video/controls); perhaps some explanations for each setting would be helpful (esp. to new players) ;)
    - possibly show morale in the unit icons as well ? it would be great to have it always available at a glance.
    - big ugly pause box; a screenshot with that on it is worthless.
    - speaking of screenshots: can we have an in-game screenshot key as before ?
    - cool thing about rallying the troops; also nice that routing units' flags turn white, although the graphic effect itself is odd for some people (kinda intrusive).


    .
    You forgot that the mouse speed is too slow, making it difficult to fast select units and, i think, making the game seem too fast for some people.

    Also selecting the MTW UI. Even when switching it too true in the Preferences file, the UI doesnt fully represent the control you have over your army that STW and MTW gave you. While its at least nice to be able to left click again, dragging out formations to adjust unit spacing as well as depth doesnt work right, as well as trying to move your grouped army while keeping formation.
    I hope that the MTW control option is still work in progress and will be fixed in the final game...

  9. #9
    Member Member Lord of the Isles's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by spacecadet

    Also selecting the MTW UI. Even when switching it too true in the Preferences file, the UI doesnt fully represent the control you have over your army that STW and MTW gave you. While its at least nice to be able to left click again, dragging out formations to adjust unit spacing as well as depth doesnt work right, as well as trying to move your grouped army while keeping formation.
    I hope that the MTW control option is still work in progress and will be fixed in the final game...
    --insert obligatory and deserved thanks to blodrast--

    I'd like to expand on spacecadet's point. I've found that the only way I can adjust formations using the Total War Controls setting is Control-LeftMouse and drag them out. In the Trebia battle however, I grouped 5 phalanx units and, with them selected, tried Control-LeftMouse and the pink dots that showed the new positions weren't in the line I'd dragged out, but were all relative to their current positions. I ungrouped them, selected all 5 and then got the behaviour I wanted. That seems like a bug to me.

    Anyone know how to adjust unit facings? Alt-RightMouse was the traditional TW way but I can't seem to find an equivalent in the demo. Ditto with attempts to move a group to a new position and keep its current position/formations. In Trebia last night, I tried to move a group of 2 Sacred Band Cavalry to a new position. Ended up with another group also moving towards that point!

    Maybe the attempt to use the old Controls is flawed anyway and I should just get used to the new style. I'll have to give it a go.
    Last edited by Lord of the Isles; 08-25-2004 at 15:36.

  10. #10

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Isles
    ...Maybe the attempt to use the old Controls is flawed anyway and I should just get used to the new style. I'll have to give it a go.
    Sure would be nice if someone from CA stopped by here to sort out all the control and UI questions.

  11. #11
    Member Member Spartiate's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Gentlemen and ladies you can be damn sure that CA HAVE stopped by to check up on what we have being saying but have no intention of addressing our concerns as i imagine a policey was formulated way back as to what market they were targeting this time.WE are not that market.They are not going to change too much with the game as they are predominantly after a younger clickfest orientated group.
    The only bone they have thrown us is the modding kit as they are prettysure from reading these forums that we will mod whatever game they put out anyway.
    Sorry about being so negative as i have always been in full support of CA before,but i have really lost hope after playing the demo.
    "Go tell the Spartans,stranger passing by that here,obedient to their laws we lie."

  12. #12

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Isles
    --insert obligatory and deserved thanks to blodrast--

    I'd like to expand on spacecadet's point. I've found that the only way I can adjust formations using the Total War Controls setting is Control-LeftMouse and drag them out. In the Trebia battle however, I grouped 5 phalanx units and, with them selected, tried Control-LeftMouse and the pink dots that showed the new positions weren't in the line I'd dragged out, but were all relative to their current positions. I ungrouped them, selected all 5 and then got the behaviour I wanted. That seems like a bug to me.

    Anyone know how to adjust unit facings? Alt-RightMouse was the traditional TW way but I can't seem to find an equivalent in the demo. Ditto with attempts to move a group to a new position and keep its current position/formations. In Trebia last night, I tried to move a group of 2 Sacred Band Cavalry to a new position. Ended up with another group also moving towards that point!

    Maybe the attempt to use the old Controls is flawed anyway and I should just get used to the new style. I'll have to give it a go.
    ok, i can't test this now, but from what i can remember, i think selecting the unit and then dragging with LMB or RMB (don't remember), reorients the men in that unit
    (LMB/RMB = left/right mouse button)
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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Frogbeastegg and Blodrast,

    I am having some difficulty nailing down the oddity with flashing orange triangles on ATI cards. I had it with the default options in 32 bit and 1024x768 and then I had it appear once with higher 1200 and higher detail settings, then I changed settings a bit and it disappeared. I couldn't get it to occur again no matter what I changed--including reboots between. I'm running 4.7 Cats with 98SE at the moment. When if first happened and was bad I noticed "reflections/glints" was disabled in the battle menu, even though I had enabled it in the main menu video options. I also turned up all effects other than anti-aliasing in main menu. One thing I am sure of is that the main menu video options don't always carry over into the battle menu options. In particular I notice the "high quality shadows" are often unchecked in the battle menu, although checked in the main menu. There seems to be some sort of bug in the game interface for these vid settings. I can only conclude that it is an initialization problem that occurs intermittently. It could be driver related, but the mismatch in game settings suggests it is the application at fault. I can't seem to cause or eliminate the problem systematically, so I'm stumped at the moment.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  14. #14

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    thank you, Red Harvest.
    I added to the list your point about options from the main menu not carrying over to the in-game menu.
    I'm afraid I can't help with the ATI cards; as I said, I don't have access to one myself.
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

  15. #15

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Nice summary Blodrast. I think you forgot to mention the concerns about the size and placement of the Pause sign. Seems like just having a blinking icon in the VCR area would suffice.

    Edit - The demo does a good job of showing off the flashy graphics. However IMO there should have been a small campaign included to highlight the new features in it if they were serious about providing something that showcased the whole game.
    Last edited by Elmo; 08-25-2004 at 11:59.

  16. #16

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    You did not mention the somewhat worse camera controls of RTW.

  17. #17
    Teppo Taisho Member Maeda Toshiie's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Uh, guys, going over to the .com and saying all this may be more effective. I know there are a lot of expert noobs there who saying that CA is god and the demo is all perfect and holy. However, CA is going to be reading a lot over there as well.

    TW originally aimed to be a game that redefines strategy games. Now it steps off the path beaten its loyal fans to adopt styles of RTS out there. I had thought RTW should be setting the standards, NOT follow the standards of others.

    Majority of the vets at the Org have many issues with the demo. Making yourself heard would be good for the future of the TW series. I really dont wish the only strategy game left that I respect and play to be ruined by noobs.
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    Member Member Thoros of Myr's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    frustration got the best of me - edited
    Last edited by Thoros of Myr; 08-25-2004 at 23:30.

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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    UI Issue-

    Charging can be a bit difficult, particularly trying to issue the command against fast moving/running units. The second part of the click is often not on the target unit because they moved... (Reminds me of one of those joke survey boxes where the answer check box moves around when you try to press it.) There is something odd about the "feel" of issuing attack vs. charge. I have to look at the unit box to figure out which one I ended up issuing. I don't have this problem in MTW/VI.

    Tutorial-

    I think they will need a much more in depth movement/formation tutorial. Honestly though, I never fully mastered MTW's movements. I have gotten very good with a set of tools, but several folks here have mentioned things like chainging facing that I have always done using mouse drags (which can be very tricky and time consuming.) I don't remember them in the tutorials. It might make sense to have an "advanced movement/formation" tutorial.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  20. #20

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Bloodrast, cool, thanks bud.

    About the Wedge, it seems I was in error. The reason I couldn't find it was because I was trying to apply it to Caesar's command unit in the Tuturial. If Commander units that are also cavalry only get Rally and not Wedge too, I think that should change.

    Bloodrast, unless I've missed something a second time, please add: "Allow Commander cavalary units to have the Rally AND Wedge special abilities" or something like that.
    Fac et Spera

  21. #21

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Red Harvest: noted and added.

    Servius1234:valid point. added it.

    Thank you for the comments, guys.
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    What did I do? Member Lonewarrior's Avatar
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    Wink Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    I find that the original demo is a let down, but the mods that followed made it exiting.
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    Teppo Taisho Member Maeda Toshiie's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Selling to the old crowd wouldnt earn money. Selling to the kiddies would earn. Simple laws of economics.

    Kiddies dont care if the barbarian warchief has a "captain" rank. Or that the Romans use the captain rank for their commanders.

    Kiddies want elephants, flaming pigs, head hurlers, druids and screaming women. They dont want to pin with spears and flank.
    Keeping the ashigarus in line since 1575

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    Member Member Thoros of Myr's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    frustration got the best of me - edited
    Last edited by Thoros of Myr; 08-25-2004 at 23:29.

  25. #25

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Putting the mouse cursor to the side of the screen should strafe the camera, not rotate it as it currently does. MTW controls provided more options, go back to that control.

    The angle of the camera and the zoom level should be seperated. I hate the default swooping camera crap. Make these two camera controls independent again as they were in MTW.

    The units may need more color differentiation becaue when two units are engaged in melee it is often very hard to tell the proportion of one side's troops to the other.

    Where's the Wedge formation for cavalry? I only see Loose and Tight.

    Where's the Hold Formation option? I only see Skirmish and Engage at Will.

    The Halt command doesn't order archers to stop shooting. Disabling Fire-at-Will doens't either. You have to move them to make them stop shooting. That's dumb.

    The mouse cursor moves very sluggishly across the screen. Not the camera movement speed, the cursor movement speed.
    Fac et Spera

  26. #26
    Clan Takiyama Senior Member CBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Servius1234
    Where's the Wedge formation for cavalry? I only see Loose and Tight.

    Where's the Hold Formation option? I only see Skirmish and Engage at Will.
    In the left corner you will find the wedge for most cav units. Same place as all special formations the units have: fire arrows for archers, rally for general, cantabrian circle for Numidians etc

    The Guard Mode seems to be both hold position and formation in one command.

    Edit: and I keep having problems with right/left! I mean right corner ffs :


    CBR
    Last edited by CBR; 08-25-2004 at 23:00.

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    The Maiden Member Jeanne d'arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    People seem to forget that its still only a demo , the developers have a good months time to make small adjustments before the actual release, i am sure they will fix some issue's listed there.One thing i can say is that from seeing this demo i know that the full game will be ace!
    En nom Dieu!

  28. #28

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanne d'arc
    People seem to forget that its still only a demo , the developers have a good months time to make small adjustments before the actual release...
    If the game is going to be on the shelf in a month it has probably gone gold already or will any minute now. Changes, if any, would have to be in a patch. IOW don't hold your breath.

  29. #29

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Great thread! First I must say I am as concerned as many after having learned of the demo yesterday and done nothing but played it since then. Can we keep this list going and perhaps make it an official sticky? The more cohesive community concerns are represented the easier it will be for devs to wade through the muck. Just a thought.

    I agree with much of whats been said here. I would like to add two issues which I feel fit nicely with this list and by extension touch on an issue raised by many. This might be a bit long but I am trying to be as clear as possible. Here they are..

    1: ---> edit: nevermind on this point. I found more key binding options. The rest below still stands! Sorry everyone.

    2: ---> I've tried every mode and camera setup in the game and there is simply nothing that works for me. Here is my perfect setup...

    2a: - W,A,S,D (strafe L+R, forward, back) -This is covered with current options. Easy enough for me, the most common setup for navigating a 3D game along with #2b. Camera speed slider included, thank you CA!

    2b: - Mouselook (viewpoint left, right, up, down) -Now this cant be "on" all the time like in a FPS because we need the mouse cursor nearly as much as we need to move. So, for me the ideal solution is to simply have Mouselook active only when im holding down my key of choice (Right Mouse Button). Holding it down gives me the freedom of movement only seen in the best FPS games. Releasing it gives me my cursor. Advantage #1 is not having to use "screen edge" movement or rotation thus keeping your cursor closer to the action. Advantage #2 you're not confined to a single rotation speed as you are with screen edge or keyboard rotation.

    2c: - Left mouse button option (Unit selection, Unit movement, Attack, AND Formation + Facing) Its easier to quickly double left click than double right. This opens up the interface for the above described mouselook.

    I do think M:TW had a form of mouselook like what I described above but the implementation wasn't very smooth at all. I only looked up and down with it because rotation was jittery. This leads me into an issue raised by many concerning the demo.

    3: ---> The mouse speed issue. Mouse input accuracy is terrible. Sure we need a speed slider and perhaps a filter but this doesn't change poor utilization within the software itself. The TW games have never been the finest on this point and would never pass on any professional or competitive FPS/RTS level. You can feel it even on the menu screen by contrast from the windows desktop. There is latency and a seemingly slow as mud sampling rate. Its honestly really bad and needs to be improved.

    In the hopes of a great game!
    V2
    Last edited by V2; 09-07-2004 at 02:14. Reason: added a "b" after "along with #2"

  30. #30

    Default Re: RTW demo conclusions: a full summary

    Actually, we've been monitoring comments on the demo here and at the .com forums quite closely. But thanks for pointing out the thread.
    This is from a reply from Captain Fishpants to a PM that I took the liberty to send him. By this time, anyway, you've surely noticed that CA has already posted in several threads here at the Org. So we can rest assured that our issues, both good and bad, have been at least noticed, and, to the extent that it's possible, will be addressed.

    Thank you for linking to this at the .com, too, sdrga.
    so let's just keep the faith for a couple more weeks
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

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