Maneouvering

**rayoftoul** · 09-11-2004, 10:45

I probably haven't made the best first impression by misspelling the title

Basically I was wondering if anyone had tips on adjusting the position of your army on a defence. It's a pretty basic question, but often when the cavalry moves around to the side of my infantry line, I get stuck as to what to do. Often I play as the muslims, and I have nothing but spears to combat the cavalry with, and it's rather cumbersome to change their position.

Do I just need to have a longer infantry line, or should I try and attack their cavalry as soon as I see it getting ready to flank?

Thanks

**Adrian II** · 09-11-2004, 11:19

Never mind, Ray, your second impression is just fine, this world suffers from too many people taking themselves too darned serious.

It shouldn't be too hard to protect your flanks. If your armies are essentially infantry, concentrate on what they do best, which is marching and fighting in close ranks with ranged support. It would probably be best to put them in three lines, i.e. first line foot, second line missiles and third line consisting of at least one reserve foot on either side of your general. These reserves may take care of enemy flanking cavalry, but make sure you give them ranged support. My rule of thumb is I make up in ranged units what I lack in cavalry units. Pavise Arbalesters are terrific killing machines, their benefit compared to longbows being that their ammunition lasts a lot longer and even during a two-hour battle they maintain their punch because hardly suffer serious losses, apart from direct cavalry charges.

Hope this makes any sense, good luck man.

**Adrian II** · 09-11-2004, 11:55

Ray, two more things I forgot to mention. One is you can experiment by carefully copying both armies into a custom battle and saving it so you can experiment with it over and over again. The second is that if you have only one unit of Arbalesters, put them in the third line with your general where they can stay out of harm's way until you commit them either left, right or centre, depending on where your enemy brings his heaviest armour to bear. If it's on your flank in the shape of heavy cavalry charge, send in a reserve spear unit which you put on "Hold". After they have engaged said cavalry you send your Arbalasters to flank them, then watch their corpses pile up. Never mind if your mouse cap tells you your spears are "losing badly", just watch the rate at which their "winning easily" cavalry are dropping stone dead to your armour-piercing arrows. Oh, but this is just one of many schemes and this may become a long thread.

Gotta get back to my real job now ;-)

**rayoftoul** · 09-11-2004, 12:05

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to try out all that's suggested

**Ldvs** · 09-11-2004, 12:50

I suggest you read Frogbeastegg's guide, she gives many useful tips for new players. It's located on the homepage of totalwar.org in the guides section, you can't miss it

**ichi** · 09-11-2004, 19:26

Originally Posted by rayoftoul

I probably haven't made the best first impression by misspelling the title

Basically I was wondering if anyone had tips on adjusting the position of your army on a defence. It's a pretty basic question, but often when the cavalry moves around to the side of my infantry line, I get stuck as to what to do. Often I play as the muslims, and I have nothing but spears to combat the cavalry with, and it's rather cumbersome to change their position.

Do I just need to have a longer infantry line, or should I try and attack their cavalry as soon as I see it getting ready to flank?

Thanks

Welcome to the Org Ray

I have several questions before I chime in with advice.

Why do you have nothing but spears as anti-cav? Altho spears are good anti-cav, I like to also use cav, missiles, and pole-arm troops (Muslims have some good polearms like Janissary Heavy Infantry).

What does an army of yours comprised of? Do you have archers, what are you using for spears, etc? As a Muslim I like 5-6 Infantry, 4-5 Cav, the rest hybrid missiles like Janissary Infantry or Futuwwas.

How are you deployed? Do you deploy in one long infantry line or do you you leave units in reserve?

My suggestions include acquiring more cav and good anti-cav infantry and placing these units on the flanks, just behind the main line, and holding them until the enemy tries to flank.

ichi

**Red Harvest** · 09-11-2004, 20:03

As Muslim factions I use things like camels and horse archers to minimize the impact of heavy cav. You can use horse archers to lure them away and wear them out (AI will do the same to you in reveresed position if you don't keep an eye on it.) Camels get killed off quickly but they are potent anti-cav, particularly if you can wheel some spears around to assist. And camels are CHEAP!

A lot depends on how much cav you face, and how powerful it is. If I'm outclassed but have a lot of infantry I'll hold at lease one dedicated unit of spear infantry behind and on each flank. I will turn it to face any cav rushing in. I'll keep some cav/camel on the wings as well. I will also turn my archer units on the flank to engage any cav in range and fall behind the infantry screen. This often keeps the AI at bay for awhile so that my archers can whittle down the approaching enemy infantry before falling back behind my spears.

**Colovion** · 09-11-2004, 21:07

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

As Muslim factions I use things like camels and horse archers to minimize the impact of heavy cav. You can use horse archers to lure them away and wear them out (AI will do the same to you in reveresed position if you don't keep an eye on it.) Camels get killed off quickly but they are potent anti-cav, particularly if you can wheel some spears around to assist. And camels are CHEAP!

A lot depends on how much cav you face, and how powerful it is. If I'm outclassed but have a lot of infantry I'll hold at lease one dedicated unit of spear infantry behind and on each flank. I will turn it to face any cav rushing in. I'll keep some cav/camel on the wings as well. I will also turn my archer units on the flank to engage any cav in range and fall behind the infantry screen. This often keeps the AI at bay for awhile so that my archers can whittle down the approaching enemy infantry before falling back behind my spears.

That sounds prettymuch like what I do as Muslim factions. A lot of the time if the enemy has units that are so good that if they touch my troops in battle my troops get slaughtered... well I just send in a half dozen HA's in and play around with their Cav - this only works if they don't have any Fast Cav - cause if they have Steppe, Hobs or ALans then you're prettymuch wasting your time. It works agaisnt everything other than ranged units - and it is deffinately worth trying over and over again until you master at least one facet of HA combat.

**Quietus** · 09-12-2004, 04:10

Rayo,

Here's some simple formation:
1. One Spearmen per archer
2. Shock troops to the side
3. If possible and if the spot is good, one of your flank should be close to the woods. You can put some spears and shock troops there so the Cavs can't flank.
4. Cavs should either be at the back or on extremesides of battle map hiding or unnoticeable. Ideally, 2-3 Cavs total in your army.

ShockTroops Cav(opt.) Catapult(Opt.)Cav(Opt.) ShockTroops

--------Spear Space Space Space Space Spear

--------------Spear Spear Spear Spear
------------Archer Archer Archer Archer

Sorry, if the formation looks sloppy (don't pay attention to dotted lines).

1. Shoot Cavs/Shock troops with archers (on "hold"). When they get too close, retreat them behind the Spear.

2. If they attack by flank, hit them with the Spear then counter flank with Shock troops.

3. When the AI commits to a full attack, attack with front lines too then release your Cavalry (depending where they are) and use them to flank or chase retreating troops.

4. If they have a lot of infantry, use an optional catapult (on "hold", so they fire only when you want them to).

5. Just play with the configuration. You can have extra Spears, Extra shock troops or extra cavs depending on AI makeup.

6. When the moment is right. Attack with your frontline spears. redirect your Missiles to other troops (or order them to stop altogether). Your shock troops should be able to route the enemy sides first. Release your fast Cavs (on wedge initially) to chase archers or flank other troops., then the Enemy is completely enveloped.

7. Chase routers with Cavs. Reform your original army then rest them for the reinforcement. Rest the Cavs when they are done.

8. Repeat, until last reinforcement where you can counter attack fully. and Capture as much as possible. If the AI is not that many, you can counter attack early and just position your troops where AI reinforcement should appear. But in general, just have a feel for the situation.

**Dragoncrusader** · 09-12-2004, 09:53

Hi
You could try putting your army in echelon. Have a front row of spears but at both ends have another spear unit facing forwards but set back from the front line. If you are attacked all along the front, then these units can be committed to extend the line. Or if the enemy tries to outflank you, turn the unit to face the side and the oncoming attack. Click on the side unit, place the pointer off to the side of the line, way off in the distance,, hold down the alt key and do a right mouse click. The unit will turn to face the direction of the pointer so will turn to the side. You can do this for whole groups of units if you select them all together and the computer helpfully shows you their final position so you can try again if not quite right.
Good luck

**rayoftoul** · 09-13-2004, 15:35

Stupidly enough I never thought of making one of my flanks trees.

I try to lure the heavy cav with horse archers to tire them, but I find the micro management pretty difficult, I might just have to keep trying!

Thanks for the friendly responses.

**English assassin** · 09-13-2004, 17:28

One other thing, depending on the terrain, is to be ready to wheel your army. The AI often attacks one end or the other of your line (well, it does with me). This is surprisingly sensible of it, if it means it can concentrate all of its army on half of yours. One of my basic tenets of battle is the Nelsonian one that no unit dfoes wrong so long as it finds an enemy to attack, so if the AI does concentrate on one flank, thats the chance to push the unengaged units on the other flank forward and either wheel and charge him in the rear, or push on and massacre any ranged troops he has lurking in his nether regions. Set the two flanks up as groups before the battle to wheel them quickly.

In an ideal world, as the attack came in against one flank you would pull that flank back, rotate the other forward, and so bring his troops back to your centre but, ideally, with their flank facing you. A massacre should ensue. Unfortunately you can't do that because there is no way to pull your troops back on one flank without them turning their backs on the enemy, which means that a massacre certainly would ensue but it won't be one you like. (If I have got that wrong incidentally I'd love someone to tell me how to do it, but I am pretty sure there is no way to, in effect, make your unit walk backwards.)